[Ostrakon] AnthoniusII

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

It's hard for me to comment on this, since I know Antonius in RL and I'm aware of his character and his general point of view.
I'll need to check all the links carefully though, since I was away for a long time.

Wait. Did he really say that?

If TWC is faninced by the Turkish Govermment and that is the reason that leaves unckecked Abdulmecid I to do as he pleases we all must know.

[PointOfViewGun]

It's hard for me to comment on this, since I know Antonius in RL and I'm aware of his character and his general point of view.
I'll need to check all the links carefully though, since I was away for a long time.

Wait. Did he really say that?

He often targeted Abdulmecid I claiming that he is an agent of the Turkish government. Most of AnthoniusII's general hostility is hidden behind moderation discretion deletions. It's impossible to link to them.

There aren't many posts left to link to because of that. Remaining examples:

WILL some high rank "official" of TWC , give a CLEAR answer an not hide nehind irony like 5 years old children?

SO instead of sarcasm and irony prove that your high ranks and awards are worthing having them and find a lolution to save TWC. Everything else is rubish!
yOUU DEMOSTRATE YOUR AWARDS and ranks but what they will be usefull for if TWC dies?
Are you capable to answer these simple questions OR NOT?

Seriusly you would not like that option. Garb would not tolerate many ironic post of yours that you write simply because you think you have no one to control your manners over other members.
Beware what you wsih though.

TWC does not mean Akar's or anyone else's personal show of superiority .

Lets supose that I am a conspirecy guy...What I see here is a well co-ordinated attempt by Flinn and Akar to take the complete control of TWC without to need to answer to anyone for their actions or desisions. That is the definision of a hiden dictatorship...But again...I am simply a consiracy guy ... The problem is that everywhere i turn in to the Administration Section of TWC Flinn and Akar go together like the "couples" of the Theban Sacred Band. Maybe my eyes cheating me because I ma too old ...If that so forgive my conspiracy theory.

Arguing with you that obviusly does not know how Church Laws aplly reminds me an old Pannonic quote"

'The king said frowning: “Don’t torment Methodius, as he’s already sweating like in an oven!” And Methodios said: “Milord, some people met a sweaty philosopher once and asked him why he is sweating so much, to which he replied: “I argued with idiots!

"Panonic Hagiography of St. Methodios”, 9th c.St.Methodios reply to King Louis the German.St.Kliment of Ohrid.
That is my answer to end this discusion here.
I hope you wont take it too personaly and use your fictional title to report this post....when you run out of arguments.

How hard is for you to understand that what i write is writen in Ecumenical Councils and I have discusted them with Proffesors of Church/Religion Law ?

In the future though a PM would be a more polite remindment than a Warning because you are in quarell with me personally (aspesialy Akar and z3n).

Ideally, we'd get a number of posts that required moderation action but that is not allowed.

[Akar]

Quite ironic considering how you're being prompt to critize Moderation wherever you can

If you think criticism is the same as an attack (it's not).

In the current case, Anthonius II is an offender to who?

Offender means someone who has committed a crime, or in this case broken a rule.

You can not reasonnably compare Anthonius II behaviour to Ponti's one.

It is comparable in the sense that both are cases of egregious misbehaviour by citizens - if the standards we hold ourselves by are not upheld in these cases, then when will they be?

Most of AnthoniusII's general hostility is hidden behind moderation discretion deletions. It's impossible to link to them.

This is one of the problems that keeps rearing its head with the Ostrakon procedure. The most egregious posts are deleted or edited, leaving only those that are uncitizen-like but not blatantly rule breaking. The Citizenry is left to infer what sort of material was deleted from the little that is allowed to remain. In Ponti's case it was a similar issue. His blatantly rule breaking posts were deleted and even the screenshots of them were deleted by moderation leaving only the offensive but not ToS breaking posts to be argued over.

[Sir Adrian]

This is why the old system was better. There was no inferring necessary.

[Lifthrasir]

If you think criticism is the same as an attack (it's not).

Really? What about these examples then?

More than sufficient evidence has already been provided. This is nowhere near the first time this issue has been brought up. And last time it was, mods abused their powers to force the conversation to shut down.

It's reassuring to see moderation call a thread where numerous people complaining about their selective inaction a "flame thread". How convenient for them that anyone who complains about them is "flaming" them. Love seeing criticism silenced.

This is nothing new. There have been numerous complaints about this sort of thing and every single time it's been swept under the rug by Moderation.

They do not care.

What is happening is a moderator has deleted your post but didn't feel like letting you or anyone else know that the post was deleted and not just, you know, a server error or something.

Our community is absolutely of a size where moderation should no longer be relying on the crutch of "tHeReS jUsT sOoOoO mAnY pOsTs mOdeRaTeD iT wOulD Be SooOoOoO hArD". If you moderated a post you should absolutely be able to explain what was wrong with it. And if it's suddenly restored just because of public outcry, why was the post even deleted in the first place?

This is a shockingly regular occurrence here.

Your edit doesn't clear up either.

Why are posts being deleted that do not violate the ToS?

Why are posts being restored only due to public outcry?

Which moderator made the decision to delete CDA's posts without due cause?

Oh look, Iskar has accidentally stumbled onto the exact issue at hand here, that Moderation policy should be made public.

There is no such obligation.

The Consul's authority and power is defined, granted, and limited solely via the Constitution, not some archaic list of policies in a hidden subforum in a locked filing cabinet in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door reading "beware of the leopard".

Should I carry on?

Offender means someone who has committed a crime, or in this case broken a rule.

I know what offender means. My english is not that bad. Thank you. My question is: who does consider Anthonius II as an offender?

It is comparable in the sense that both are cases of egregious misbehaviour by citizens - if the standards we hold ourselves by are not upheld in these cases, then when will they be?

Again, the curia is puttting the cart before the horse. How can we claim that a citizen doesn't respect our standards when they're not defined in their main principle (because that's quite subjective, isn't it)?

This is one of the problems that keeps rearing its head with the Ostrakon procedure. The most egregious posts are deleted or edited, leaving only those that are uncitizen-like but not blatantly rule breaking. The Citizenry is left to infer what sort of material was deleted from the little that is allowed to remain. In Ponti's case it was a similar issue. His blatantly rule breaking posts were deleted and even the screenshots of them were deleted by moderation leaving only the offensive but not ToS breaking posts to be argued over.

Right, let's keep these kind of ToS breaches public for public stoning. Great

[Akar]

Right, let's keep these kind of ToS breaches public for public stoning. Great

I believe you have intentionally misunderstood the point.

[Lifthrasir]

I believe that you have perfectly understood my point, haven't you?

[PointOfViewGun]

This is not a place to word out your grievances for an other person. The purpose of the thread is to discuss AnthoniusII's conduct and his conduct only. Please keep your discussion within that context.

[Lifthrasir]

I'm just demonstrating that Akar does what he basically reproaches to Anthonius when it comes to criticize TWC Staff. The posts I've quoted are pretty similar to those from Anthonius you have posted yourself.
So, if you approve this ostrakon against Anthonius, then you can issue one against Akar as well for the same reasons. Or are we applying different standards depending on the concerned citizen?

[Akar]

Let's try to stay on topic, please.

"The Consul recognizes that off topic and personal references are allowed, within reason."

I believe we're venturing into "unreasonable" territory here.

[Belisarius]

I do not know what the current standards of what warrants an ostrakon are - but in my time it was carried out for grievous matters. He lacks eloquence but I have seen other Citizens post similar content wrapped up in finer words.

On this basis I oppose.

[Garbarsardar]

I do not know what the current standards of what warrants an ostrakon are - but in my time it was carried out for grievous matters.

Deleting the site and such.

On topic now, I cannot decide what comes out as more poor. The ostrakon itself or Anthonius posting behavior. On that basis, I abstain.

[Agisilaos]

Hello guys, i am not very active anymore, usually i check the site but i do not write anything and accidentally i found this thread.
if my vote means something i oppose. Have a nice day!

[Jake Armitage]

the turkish gov part is just genial

[Dismounted Feudal Knight]

Just for the record, votes will have impact when the poll is added. Anything before is merely arguments.

[Sir Adrian]

Speaking of which, the poll should have been added 2 days ago.

[Gaius Baltar]

Has this been abandoned? Poll should have been started already. If this is not going to go to vote now it should be closed.

[Gigantus]

...and an amendment made that clearly states SND obligations for curia staff.

Just following up: [Amendment] Ensuring non disclosure compliance in the curia

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Just following up: [Amendment] Ensuring non disclosure compliance in the curia

Pretty much needed

[Sir Adrian]

I distinctly remember when I was a Censor, 7 years ago, that there were instructions in the Politia for the Curator and Censors, or they were instructed via PM in either case specific instruction was given, to not divulge anything to anyone unless the citizen in question specifically requests the proceedings to be made public.