Upcoming Era System

[tornnight]

This is the current plan for v1.9

There will be eras based on armor technology. The era's change at random times within a specific range of years.

Start of Game
Era 0 - Units with up to leather upgrades
Era 1 - Units with up to light mail upgrades
Era 2 - Units with up to heavy mail upgrades
Era 3 - Units with up to partial plate upgrades
Era 4 - Units with up to full plate upgrades
Era 5 - Units with up to gothic plate upgrades

Intermixed there will also be other notable events.

- Stone Castles
- Concentric Castles
- Introduction of Battle Assassins for Eastern factions
- Cannons developed
- Handgun developed
- Matchlock developed (Arquebusiers)
- Advanced Matchlock developed (Musketeers)

At the beginning of the game there will be only stonekeep/wooden walls type castles or smaller. Very few stone walled cities too.

Another huge difference is that population/city level doesn't strictly control unit development anymore. A regular city can recruit pretty much any unit if it has the needed building and the corresponding Era has been reached.

Another interesting addition is that barracks give you easier access to more units via a introduction system. For example, a town guard building will give you full access to 'Town Militia' units and limited access to 'Spear Militia' units. Limited access means low replenishment and only 1 max in reserve.

Basically this means that you will see a much bigger diversity in units at the beginning of the game. But they will all be limited to the Era system. For example, at the start of the game you may see Billmen pretty soon because they initially have no armor and therefore fit into Era 0.

Lastly, both cities and castles will be able to recruit all units. Different experience levels and rates will differentiate the settlements.

Militia will be differentiated by being cheaper to purchase, have free upkeep, but less effective than professional soldiers. Therefore, you would only use them as defensive units.

There will be free unit upkeep for militia units in both types of settlements to simulate the defensive nature of settlements.

[Condottiere SOG]

Will players be able to at the times of the different eras?
Or even compatible with 1.8?
Thanks!

[tornnight]

Huh?

[Ripp]

I like the general idea of implementing eras based on technology, however having a leather and wooden castle era would be something you'd expect to see in RTW. Realistically, plate armor is the only thing that wasn't really around at the start of the game. Forms of partial plate were around by about 1200, and full plate didn't come about until about 1400.

There are plenty of references out there that'll give dates for any odd medieval technology, but then you need to decide if you want this to be yet another history lesson... :hmmm:

[tornnight]

I like the general idea of implementing eras based on technology, however having a leather and wooden castle era would be something you'd expect to see in RTW. Realistically, plate armor is the only thing that wasn't really around at the start of the game. Forms of partial plate were around by about 1200, and full plate didn't come about until about 1400.

There are plenty of references out there that'll give dates for any odd medieval technology, but then you need to decide if you want this to be yet another history lesson... :hmmm:

Actually I did do some research on all this to make it somewhat accurate.

Light mail was in use before 1000 but became more common in the 11th century. Therefore the light mail event will happen rather quickly after starting. Slightly off historically. The below centuries are from historical references I found while researching. I had to adjust in places for gameplay reasons, but it's close. I tried to base it off the historical dates when the technology became widespread, not just an isolated thing.

{MAIL_ARMOR_BODY}Mail haubergeon is now produced in quantities that make their use by nobles and professional soldiers, common. (c. 11th century)
{MAIL_ARMOR_TITLE}Mail production techniques refined.
{HEAVY_MAIL_ARMOR_BODY}New techniques in production of mail have reduced their cost and now full body suits of mail armour are common. (c. 13th century)
{HEAVY_MAIL_ARMOR_TITLE}Heavy Mail produced
{HALF_PLATE_ARMOR_BODY}Single plates of metal armour are now being worn over a full mail haubergeon in order to protect vulnerable areas. (c. Late 13th century)
{HALF_PLATE_ARMOR_TITLE}Reinforced Armor produced
{FULL_PLATE_ARMOR_BODY}Larger and complete full plates of armour had been developed. Many of them are masterpieces of workmanship and design. (c. Late 14th century)
{FULL_PLATE_ARMOR_TITLE}Full Plate Armor produced
{GOTHIC_ARMOR_BODY}New designs for plate armor include new helmet and neckguard designs. Many of them masterpieces of workmanship and refinement. (c. Early 16th century)
{GOTHIC_ARMOR_TITLE}Gothic Plate Armor produced

[Condottiere SOG]

Will we be able toplay three different eras(early, high, late) as in three different time-referenced start points? Will this update be compatible with old games(1.8-)?

[Giorgos]

i think tornnight means that the eras will change, not that you'll be able to play different eras.

[tornnight]

Correct. You will simply get a popup event stating that, for example, heavy mail is now being commonly used. After that point Heavy Mail units will be available to everyone.

1.9 will not be compatible with 1.8.
Way too many differences and map changes.
It won't even load.

[Phil Stanbridge]

Tornnight although the idea in principal is sound - and based on historical elements as you have disccovered I'm not entirely sure it will be a popular one.

When I'm playing a campaign the best thing I can is "upgrade" that unit - that's what the whole game is about in my eyes. Getting the best units out on the field, and beating the opponent. I can't wait to get there. I realise it isn't only about the strongest and best looking units - but that is all part of the fun. Playing through hundreds of turns to really earn that heavy armour factory and the best units is hard work - and rewarding work. But to have the option thrown in your face regardless of how much effort you put into the campaign doesn't seem like the best idea to me.

Do you plan on offering "upgrades" further to these that can be earnt - like further enhancement of the guilds or such like? Or even futher enhancements on top of the best upgrades available at the time? I don't know exactly what - but maybe there is something that can be done. I just think it needs to be looked into before you remove what is in my opinion one of the best parts of the game.

[Sulla's Dog]

When I'm playing a campaign the best thing I can is "upgrade" that unit - that's what the whole game is about in my eyes. Getting the best units out on the field, and beating the opponent. I can't wait to get there. I realise it isn't only about the strongest and best looking units - but that is all part of the fun. Playing through hundreds of turns to really earn that heavy armour factory and the best units is hard work - and rewarding work. But to have the option thrown in your face regardless of how much effort you put into the campaign doesn't seem like the best idea to me.

I don't follow

I don't think Tornnight is making unit availability being solely dictated by eras. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you'll be fully upgrading plate-armored Knights with only a barracks and the correct era?

[tornnight]

Tornnight although the idea in principal is sound - and based on historical elements as you have disccovered I'm not entirely sure it will be a popular one.

When I'm playing a campaign the best thing I can is "upgrade" that unit - that's what the whole game is about in my eyes. Getting the best units out on the field, and beating the opponent. I can't wait to get there. I realise it isn't only about the strongest and best looking units - but that is all part of the fun. Playing through hundreds of turns to really earn that heavy armour factory and the best units is hard work - and rewarding work. But to have the option thrown in your face regardless of how much effort you put into the campaign doesn't seem like the best idea to me.

Do you plan on offering "upgrades" further to these that can be earnt - like further enhancement of the guilds or such like? Or even futher enhancements on top of the best upgrades available at the time? I don't know exactly what - but maybe there is something that can be done. I just think it needs to be looked into before you remove what is in my opinion one of the best parts of the game.

I understand your concern. As you upgrade your cities and buildings you will get access to better and more experienced units. 25 turns into the game and you will have a big variety of units to recruit and fight against.
You'll still have to build the needed buildings so you'll have the incentive to build the better buildings and a challenge to get them.

Don't look at those dates as what they will be like in the game. It just wouldn't be fun if you could only get the best units at the very end of the game.

[Ripp]

The best course would probably be to make different versions of the era system, similar to current build rates. Some people like things slow, others slower, and others don't quite understand what this mod's title stands for

[burrek]

I know my input is not worth much, but I think you should split the unit availability for noble born and regular units.

Knights should be able to afford and obtain light mail (chainmail, ringmail, scalemail, or some other type of partial mail) from the beginning of the game while the plebs would not be able to afford it till enough cultural progress to allow its mass production. By the time chainmail is mass produced the knights would probably ware some partial plate, etc. Resulting in a hand-me-down system.

So the idea is a split in the era system:
------knights-------------plebs
era 1-light mail-----------leather
era 2-full mail------------light mail
era 3-partial plate-------full mail
era 4-full plate------------partial plate
era 5-gothic plate---------full plate

[tornnight]

I know my input is not worth much, but I think you should split the unit availability for noble born and regular units.

Knights should be able to afford and obtain light mail (chainmail, ringmail, scalemail, or some other type of partial mail) from the beginning of the game while the plebs would not be able to afford it till enough cultural progress to allow its mass production. By the time chainmail is mass produced the knights would probably ware some partial plate, etc. Resulting in a hand-me-down system.

So the idea is a split in the era system:
------knights-------------plebs
era 1-light mail-----------leather
era 2-full mail------------light mail
era 3-partial plate-------full mail
era 4-full plate------------partial plate
era 5-gothic plate---------full plate

Your input is absolutely very important.

That's a good idea. Fits well with realism. I'd just have to make a list of which units are considered noble or rather, which are not noble.

An event would then trigger the availability of for the lower class units.

[Ivniciix]

[B]Lastly, there will be only one type of barracks common to both cities and castles.
This will give you and the AI the ability to recruit and retrain any unit in any settlement.

Militia will be differentiated by being cheap to purchase, but expensive to maintain. Therefore, you would only use them as defensive units in emergencies supported by the free upkeep in the settlement.

There will be free unit upkeep in both types of settlements to simulate the defensive nature of settlements.

Just to clarify this in my mind, both a castle and a town could make identical militia units AND those units would qualify for free upkeep in either a castle or a town, correct? OR will only some units qualify for free upkeep only in cities while others only qualify for it in castles?

Further, am I correct in thinking that the goal is to get the AI to field armies with less militia or is it also to get the AI to garrison cities at a higher level as well? Does the AI have the smarts to "use them as defensive units in emergencies supported by the free upkeep in the settlement." or does that comment just apply to players?

Lastly, will 1.9 implement some feature that makes the castle produced units better than similar town ones - such as was discussed about them having greater experience or a building associated with making them better in some way?

PS-Glad you finally got a full forum. Your mod is all I play!

[Chicken Man]

Hey mate I jsut discovered this mod and it sounds like tis for me.

I play with Ulitamate AI and Darth Mod, Bureks skins. Does this mod include of of those, and when are you adding Darth Mod 1.3 cause that looks to be his best yet.

[Jush]

burrek's skins (not K&K) can easily be added to TLR, and they'll be collaborating (I think, right tornight?) on adding some new units to the next version.

welcome aboard!

[Chicken Man]

cool, as long as they keep the new units balanced. Why can't you add KNights and Knaves?

[Phil Stanbridge]

I've got KnK installed, seems okay to me?

[NoRbAk]

Best would be to be able to start campaign in different dates... like late, mid or high period... like MTW or Shogun. WOW, CA releases new game without all the features from previous ones...

Boiling oil, City view, Sapping ability... sniff sniff

Congrats for the mod...

Make sure you update Darths files for battle !