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Thread: Science will not win over Religion

  1. #181
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Science will not win over Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    conon394,

    Oh they might well have thought they knew the mechanics of nature but the One Who designed it knew the actualities of how all things work.
    Whatever you can pick any creation myth and say the same.
    Last edited by conon394; April 26, 2022 at 07:09 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  2. #182
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Science will not win over Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Whatever you can pick any creation myth and say the same.
    conon394,

    Nope, I just take my Maker's word for how and why it all happened the way He says it did. But, talking of myths what could be greater than that of evolution over millions of years yet you believe that.

  3. #183
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Science will not win over Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    conon394,

    Nope, I just take my Maker's word for how and why it all happened the way He says it did. But, talking of myths what could be greater than that of evolution over millions of years yet you believe that.
    Well actually not you are taking the word of people who wrote how they thought it happened. And again in any case one creation myth is no better than any other so I guess you found one you like.

    But, talking of myths what could be greater than that of evolution over millions of years yet you believe that.
    Err no time frame is evidence based. Evolutionary process is evidence based.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  4. #184
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Science will not win over Religion

    conon394,

    And so is the Biblical explanation evidence based and better based than evolution as you think of it.

  5. #185
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Science will not win over Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    conon394,

    And so is the Biblical explanation evidence based and better based than evolution as you think of it.
    Problem is too much of the bible is easily falsifiable. So no.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  6. #186
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Science will not win over Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Problem is too much of the bible is easily falsifiable. So no.
    conon394,

    And that would be?

  7. #187
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Science will not win over Religion

    oops double sort of
    Last edited by conon394; April 29, 2022 at 09:58 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  8. #188
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Science will not win over Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    conon394,

    And that would be?
    Depends on the bits. But I meant to a literal interpretation of the OT. No genetic bottle necks in either 6000 years or post flood as it would predict. No possible way for the flood to happen. No possible way for Noah to maintain animals for that long in anything that would float. More less the archaeology that shows the Kingdom of David and Solemn more a piece of imagination (some good poetry however)
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  9. #189
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Science will not win over Religion

    conon394,

    Perhaps you should pay a visit to the Ark built to Biblical measures and see that there is plenty of room aboard it for all the animals that God brought to the original. " In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." It was from reading a ball of water so how that change. God raised the ground making way for much of the water to be absorbed into it. As well as that He formed a water mantle above the earth which would be for two purposes yet to be played out. The first I believe that when God created the sun, moon and stars it was close to the earth and so the mantle was to protect the earth until they were spread across space, and two, the mantle also served to refill the land when the flood of Noah's time came. Now whatever you mean by a bottleneck may I suggest that when all but Noah and his family were saved and they had to repopulate the world that was a bottleneck. There is more than enough evidence for the flood.

  10. #190
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Science will not win over Religion

    There is more than enough evidence for the flood.
    None or provide references.

    The first I believe that when God created the sun, moon and stars it was close to the earth and so the mantle was to protect the earth until they were spread across space, and two, the mantle also served to refill the land when the flood of Noah's time came. Now whatever you mean by a bottleneck may I suggest that when all but Noah and his family were saved and they had to repopulate the world that was a bottleneck
    Now you are just making stuff to back an illogical story

    Perhaps you should pay a visit to the Ark built to Biblical measures
    That is really funny. I grant theoretically it could float but not with the amount animals it had and all their feed and water... thing would crack or sink like a stone.

    Of course than we would have a whole ton of genetic bottle necks in less than your 6000 years. But they remain missing.

    Now whatever you mean by a bottleneck may I suggest that when all but Noah and his family were saved and they had to repopulate the world that was a bottleneck
    See wiki for an intro

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_bottleneck

    The problem is thus given your young earth creation ideals than the flood was what 4000/5000 years ago. There is no genetic evidence for any human or mass generalized bottleneck in all creature just that shortly ago. The simple fact in one inbreeding family would not produce the genetic diversity we see today in the time your fantasy allows. Cheetahs probably had two bottle necks of a not such a radical nature but the second at 10-12000 years ago was clearly tight. The fact for example a cheetah can take a skin grafts from any other cheetah is indicator of just how tight that bottleneck was. Their immune system simply fails to see any other cheetah as not itself.
    Last edited by conon394; April 30, 2022 at 01:18 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  11. #191
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    Default Re: Science will not win over Religion

    conon394,

    The Ark was built just like container ships today are so what's the problem?

  12. #192
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: Science will not win over Religion

    The story of the flood was written from oral tales several thousand years after the fact by bronze-age scribes who had no knowledge of buoyancy and mathematics. Taking the measurements literally is not a wise thing to do, especially since the definition of a cubit varied through time and location.
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  13. #193
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    Default Re: Science will not win over Religion

    The wood part. You will note container ships are not wood. There is reasons ships that size are not built of wood. That much wood might be buoyant but it would lack the structural integrity to actually work.

    So got nothing for the bottleneck problem. Wait I know god just made Noah and his family super diverse and all the animals as well.
    Last edited by conon394; May 01, 2022 at 01:29 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  14. #194
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Science will not win over Religion

    conon394,

    Well, the Ark was built of wood, pitched both inside and outside and only had to float since it wasn't going anywhere. So for 150 days or 20 weeks and two days all it had to do was float until it landed on or at dry ground. Now what is surprising is that for centuries man has used wooden boats to ride the ocean's waves some battleships weighed down with gunnery and they survived no bother so what's the problem with the Ark especially since it was designed and built to God's specification?

  15. #195
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Science will not win over Religion

    It simply too big to be structurally sound built out of wood.

    Compare the myth and reality of Zheng He's ships

    https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sally-Church/publication/261905911_ZHENG_HE_AN_INVESTIGATION_INTO_THE_PLAUSIBILITY_OF_450-FT_TREASURE_SHIPS/links/5b972ee04585153a5325fb57/ZHENG-HE-AN-INVESTIGATION-INTO-THE-PLAUSIBILITY-OF-450-FT-TREASURE-SHIPS.pdf?origin=publication_detail


    So for 150 days or 20 weeks and two days
    So never had any livestock than ever think about how food you need for all those large animals, water, and who shoveling all the dung out of the boat? Also need a ton of straw to soak up that urine, and gotta replace that as well.


    Wait let me guess not in text god magic means only types of animals and he put bodily needs on hold for Noah.
    Last edited by conon394; May 02, 2022 at 02:20 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  16. #196
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Science will not win over Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Adrian View Post
    The story of the flood was written from oral tales several thousand years after the fact by bronze-age scribes who had no knowledge of buoyancy and mathematics. Taking the measurements literally is not a wise thing to do, especially since the definition of a cubit varied through time and location.
    Sir Adrian,

    The flood events were told by the family who had just come through it. Whether it was oral or written eventually it was written by Moses at God's command. Again I am surprised by your words because the language used by Jesus was Aramaic which is a numerical language and so although I cannot prove it, I can accept that Noah was quite capable of understanding maths and certainly the use of timber. He only had to follow God's instructions to get the job done for is God not the Master of anything and everything? You have a big problem my friend in that you place all your arguments in the hands of man and not what God's, God's, word says just as you do about salvation.

  17. #197
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: Science will not win over Religion

    @basics, how did Noah save the Kangaroo from extinction?
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

  18. #198
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Science will not win over Religion

    used by Jesus was Aramaic which is a numerical language
    Umm I can't understand your point or meaning.

    and so although I cannot prove it
    You mean like the whole Noah story?

    I can accept that Noah was quite capable of understanding maths and certainly the use of timber. He only had to follow God's instructions to get the job done for is God not the Master of anything and everything?
    I dunno he a poor job of running the Garden


    ----------------


    @basics, how did Noah save the Kangaroo from extinction?
    God will or maybe Australia was closer or all used live right near Noah but left no traces of that.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  19. #199
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    Default Re: Science will not win over Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    ...God will or maybe Australia was closer or all used live right near Noah but left no traces of that.
    Australia is Eden, the rest of you are fallen!
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  20. #200
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Science will not win over Religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Australia is Eden, the rest of you are fallen!
    But I rather like French table wine from Provence or Gascony vs Australian so am I really punished. Also I would have to be a rugby fan instead of ice hockey. I not very sporting I like to armed if I'm going to play a contact sport.

    But in general makes as much sense as any other location.

    Also what happened to the garden nothing as far as I can tell. Should not we be able to take pictures of the changing of the flaming sword wielding cherubim?
    Last edited by conon394; May 03, 2022 at 09:34 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

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