Science will not win over Religion

[razerbelkin]

As this is often a topic in other threads, let´s give this it´s own thread. I am posting a short clip (just some 8 minutes) of Jordan Peterson.

Has science successfully replaced religion in your opinion? In my opinion it can´t.

[athanaric]

Has science successfully replaced religion in your opinion?

It's self-evident that it wasn't able to - particularly seeing as so many supposedly scientific institutions have been taken over, or are at least paying lip service to, a brand new religion. As JP himself has had ample opportunity to experience.

In my opinion it can´t.

Why should it - science and religion appeal to different parts of the human soul, so to speak. There are people who can have one without the other, and some who can reconcile both. The problem is when religious nutjobs try to extinguish or subvert science, and cowardly scientists let them, or even join the cult.

[Muizer]

Well yes, I think mr Peterson has a point. But I hope you understand his version of "religion" is posited as an aspect of human nature: religiosity. He's saying our way of thinking cannot be other than religious. So what that means is that no, science cannot win over religion because it is itself religious. That does not preclude at all the possibility of the "religion of science" winning over the "religion of God". I can personally attest to this. I can confirm a craving for "something deep and profound", and I can confirm that In terms of any sense of wonder instilled by science compared to that instilled by scripture is like comparing the luminosity of an atom bomb vs the spark of two pieces of flint knocked together.

[conon394]

Wow got through about two minutes and the level BS and sophism he is spouting was sorta gut churning. What a self inflated/important prat.

edit re the video above.

[basics]

Science belongs to God and until you can prove otherwise all the arguments in the world will always fail.

[conon394]

Science belongs to God and until you can prove otherwise all the arguments in the world will always fail.

Got absoultly no ideal what you mean. But I could say Science belongs to Athena until you can prove otherwise you will fail.

[Cyclops]

Science may well belong to God but it doesn't belong to Christianity: the various churches have alternately tried to monopolise and stifle reason, and many religions require of their faithful some amazingly unscientific beliefs.

Anyone with enough intelligence, religious, atheist or agnostic, can fruitfully apply the scientific method to understand the world and themselves better.

[chriscase]

If human beings were endowed with innate empirical insight and perfect reason, there would be no need for the discipline of science.

[razerbelkin]

I stumbled upon this video here, which I´d like to share. It seriously doubts the possibility of Chemical Evolution (Abiogenesis). It has a high production value and is well worth 10 minutes of your time.

[Cyclops]

Cancel science boys, YouTube has won. Biblical YouTube I assume, its described in clear detail in scripture isn't it?

Interestingly scientists published the actual criticisms in the vid, meaning scientific method honestly presents the weaknesses and strength of its arguments. Good to see people studying science even if they aren't able to replicate its methods: "something unlikely is impossible! because I can imagine it, but its unlikely therefore it 100% didn't happen". Weak sophistry.

I guess when you "know" you're right any argument to dismiss the "wrong" is legitimate, because you already "know" they are wrong. Who cares, the wrongthinkers are gong to hell, its OK to lie to save them, isn't it? I mean God lied to Adam about dying the same day he ate the fruit, all that happened was he was expelled from the garden. He was just trying to keep him in heaven. With lies.

[antaeus]

Oh gawd

Do I really have to watch Jordan Peterson... I won't do it. I can't listen to any of his ramblings any more. Sure he says smart stuff, but that tone. No.

In lieu of my inability to engage with the thread video (apart from the fact that lazily posting a video with 'discuss' next to it seems to me to go against the D&D forum rules), I must preface my opinion with the usual: "I have no idea what we're discussing here so my comment could be nonsense"

Saying "science can or can't win over religion" is like saying a "recipe for a carrot cake can't win over religion"

Science is a process of investigation. Literal: the careful study of the structure and behaviour of the physical world, especially by watching, measuring, and doing experiments, and the development of theories to describe the results of these activities. In this respect, aspects of religion itself can be scientific. They are not competing theories. One is a process of investigation of the world around us - ultimately to gain more knowledge or answer questions, the other is a series of postulations about the world around us, which could potentially be evidenced or disputed through scientific process.

[basics]

Science can't win over the Truth which is staring it right in the face, why? Because science is not looking for the Creator, rather trying and failing to come up with another answer. They know the complexity of what composes life yet have never managed to replicate it. For sure they can tinker around the edges and make endless imaginative speculations but at the end of the day nothing new comes from them. If Jesus Christ does not raise their awareness by walking on water, silencing the wind, giving sight to the blind, hearing to the deaf, healing withering body parts and raising a man five days in the grave, never mind His own resurrection after three days in the grave all witnessed by many people, does one really think that science has the answer? No for them it is more acceptable to believe that we evolved from the apes because there is a certain similarity.

[antaeus]

Science can't win over the Truth which is staring it right in the face, why? Because science is not looking for the Creator, rather trying and failing to come up with another answer. They know the complexity of what composes life yet have never managed to replicate it. For sure they can tinker around the edges and make endless imaginative speculations but at the end of the day nothing new comes from them. If Jesus Christ does not raise their awareness by walking on water, silencing the wind, giving sight to the blind, hearing to the deaf, healing withering body parts and raising a man five days in the grave, never mind His own resurrection after three days in the grave all witnessed by many people, does one really think that science has the answer? No for them it is more acceptable to believe that we evolved from the apes because there is a certain similarity.

Science is literally 'investigation'

The rest of what you say is a straw man for your own vision that is nothing to do with what science is.

[Sir Adrian]

Science and religion are not at war with each other. Nor can one replace the other at any point in time.

[basics]

Sir Adrian,

Perhaps better said that God and science are not at war with each other as God Himself is what science is all about. So, why are there so many religions in this world? The short answer is that every person ever born knows deep down that there is a God, it's just that sin deliberately confuses them so that they cannot of themselves ever know Him. So, rather than accept their own responsibility to their Creator denial has become their best option plus the use of science where possible to add to that. Their problem then is that to make science work on their behalf they have to delve into times where even science or their version of it is pure speculation.

[Sir Adrian]

That a very disjointed interpretation of genesis. God did not hand over sin. God gave man free will and man used that free will to turn from God.

[basics]

That a very disjointed interpretation of genesis. God did not hand over sin. God gave man free will and man used that free will to turn from God.

Sir Adrian,

The most profound statement ever to face mankind is Genesis one and two. That where science as we know it began. Indeed when we get to the garden scene one can see that by the rule God laid down to Adam and Eve that they were never endowed with free-will but certainly with a will as we all are. It was only by persuasion that they disobeyed God through being persuaded that God lied to them that their fall took place. So God placed the curse of sin not only on them but all their offspring thereafter. So when we read of people being dead in their sin it means that they are dead to the knowledge of saving themselves from it and it applied to everyone born since Adam and Eve. It is why Jesus Christ came into the world as a man.

Now concerning science and religion as a whole, when God finished creation what we had was an up and running planet matured in every aspect to be inhabited by life. In other words it did not take billions of years to establish this, no rather only six days by God whose knowledge of what was needed was unsurpassable. Every minute detail was put into existence so that life could exists and continue to exist as long as it is God's will to do so. So, in anwer to the question about science and religion being at odds with one another it all depends on what system man believes in. Religions sprung up because man knew of God but for most it was not the same God Who created us. Therefore down through the generations these beliefs have become embedded in their cultures to an almost unimpenetrative way.

[antaeus]

Sir Adrian,

The most profound statement ever to face mankind is Genesis one and two. That where science as we know it began. Indeed when we get to the garden scene one can see that by the rule God laid down to Adam and Eve that they were never endowed with free-will but certainly with a will as we all are. It was only by persuasion that they disobeyed God through being persuaded that God lied to them that their fall took place. So God placed the curse of sin not only on them but all their offspring thereafter. So when we read of people being dead in their sin it means that they are dead to the knowledge of saving themselves from it and it applied to everyone born since Adam and Eve. It is why Jesus Christ came into the world as a man.

Now concerning science and religion as a whole, when God finished creation what we had was an up and running planet matured in every aspect to be inhabited by life. In other words it did not take billions of years to establish this, no rather only six days by God whose knowledge of what was needed was unsurpassable. Every minute detail was put into existence so that life could exists and continue to exist as long as it is God's will to do so. So, in anwer to the question about science and religion being at odds with one another it all depends on what system man believes in. Religions sprung up because man knew of God but for most it was not the same God Who created us. Therefore down through the generations these beliefs have become embedded in their cultures to an almost unimpenetrative way.

However,

Science is essentially the process through which people seek to understand. It could easily be argued that investigating and researching the Bible is itself a scientific process. Science can't be at odds with anything. It is literally organised investigation.

Unless you think that organised, methodical and tested investigation of the bible wouldn't verify your beliefs? But then that wouldn't put Science at odds with the Bible. It would just show the Bible as being less than complete in it's presentation.

[Lifthrasir]

Thread temporary closed for cleaning: Too many off-topic posts.

Thread re-opened. Please stay on topic which is about science and religion, by religion it means as a whole, not as a specific one.

[basics]

antaeus,

The problem with what people get out of science usually falls in what the scientists want them to see and for most of these scientists God is not allowed to be part of it, them knowing that what they find is an Intelligent Designer behind anything they study.

As far as the Bible is concerned it contains the Power of God unto salvation as well as being a guide for a Godly life. The unbeliever cannot see this but through what is called the dead letter of Scripture until that key moment when God intervenes to break open the hardened heart to cry out for repentance. That is when Jesus Christ is revealed to them as the Saviour Who died for their sin that kept them apart from God. In those moments that person's life is changed by the regenerating work of God and cannot be lost as that person now belongs to God.

It means that for people like me the Bible contains all that I need to live out the rest of my life knowing that when this life is over my next life is to be part of His family forever. Is it an easy path? Not in the least is it easy to be a Christian for one struggles with memories of what one thought of as good whereas they weren't and so stumbling and falling is part and parcel of the race that Paul talks of. That Jesus picks us up and puts us back onto the right path is not because I won't let Him go, rather that He won't let me go. The answers are all there in the Bible making it sufficient for a Godly life.