The Church vs. Clergy

[dutch81]

This is certainly not limited to LTC, but since I only play LTC I will post it here.

I believe that the power of clergy units is way overpowered and that it unblances the game (mostly in favor of catholic countries). For example Sicily in my LTC 2.1 campaign is over running northern africa not just militarily but their clergy is a province ahead converting the masses and causing revolt, while I am impressed with how well Sicily is doing as it used to be very similiar to my own strategy I just don't think it is realistic. I think that the physical church present in the region even at its most basic level should be able to keep the affect of enemy clergy in check ... at higher levels it should easily counter the affect of even high level clergy. In the past I used to do exactly what Sicily was doing but I now stop myself from doing this as I thought it was an exploit ... but actually the Moors are trying to do the same to me, with a single iman they are lowering the level of catholics in Leon despite the fact I have the highest level church that I am able to build there and a bishop of my own, the only reason it doesn't work well for them is that they only have a single Iman and he is moving from one province to the next constantly so he is minimizing the affect; whereas in northern africa in particular due to the long dsitances the AI does it too well.

If I were to mod this myself do I change this line:
religion_level bonus

in the file:
export_descr_buildings

????

Also how much do you think I should change it have my desired results?

Thank you very much!

[Papal_Knight]

i have to respectfully disagree. there is a cost, albeit small, for fielding alot of clergy on the map. also, it pre-supposes an inward religious stability already (otherwise you'd need the clergy to stay "at home"). so, stability in, pushes outward.

contrarily, a stable "inner core" of the faithful as it were, is an insular defense against such a religious invasion. a properly run faction should be able to do (or react to) either.

know what I mean? I think it works pretty well in game. the AI is not able to push me around in a religious sense, as I am always prepared and make that my 1st priority in game. if, by some chance, there were multi-player campaign games, I would hazzard a guess that no human player could do it to me either.

Just my 2 cents.

[Ebusitanus]

Its a war within MTW2. The AI does it to me while at peace and I do it to them too. Keep foreign border provinces not in top notch condition for future expansion or as a retarding force against a stacking up would be foe.
What I would like to see though is some form of "combat" between priests to control an area. Right now I have to ship my priests with assasins to take care of the enemy religious reaction force.

[Germanicus75]

I'm playing Byz with LTC 2.1 and Sicily is totally spamming my lands with Catholic cardinals - I'm losing the religious war :-/

[Ebusitanus]

Byzantium is in a tough spot here since most crussades march through her and is surrounded by Catholics and Muslims.
I found out what better worked for me as Byzantium was an early drive to raise my churches decently, build up one major priest recruiting ground with a cathedral (so that your priests come out already as Bishops) which will attract (already olny because you do not have much competition) the big Orthodox Theological guild houses.
Reinforcing the major enemy priest entry points with Icon paint shops helps also quite some as it raises 100% your conversion bonus.
Do not forget that no matter how many priests you have in one region, a certain % of your religious level will always fall when an enemy priest marches in. Its like a quaranteed % which once reached 80% to 75% becomes more and more tough to breach.
You getting swamped? Retaliate and you will see enemy priests running home to try to stop your own conversion spree on his lands.

Finally..with the much improved assasin figures you can deal with traspassers too.

Religious assaults along with some spies and assassins will pave your way to many regional take over without having to declare war on your neighbor. Just hit them till they revolt and then come in as a peace keeping force

[Papal_Knight]

Byzantium is in a tough spot here since most crussades march through her and is surrounded by Catholics and Muslims.
I found out what better worked for me as Byzantium was an early drive to raise my churches decently, build up one major priest recruiting ground with a cathedral (so that your priests come out already as Bishops) which will attract (already olny because you do not have much competition) the big Orthodox Theological guild houses.
Reinforcing the major enemy priest entry points with Icon paint shops helps also quite some as it raises 100% your conversion bonus.
Do not forget that no matter how many priests you have in one region, a certain % of your religious level will always fall when an enemy priest marches in. Its like a quaranteed % which once reached 80% to 75% becomes more and more tough to breach.
You getting swamped? Retaliate and you will see enemy priests running home to try to stop your own conversion spree on his lands.

Finally..with the much improved assasin figures you can deal with traspassers too.

Religious assaults along with some spies and assassins will pave your way to many regional take over without having to declare war on your neighbor. Just hit them till they revolt and then come in as a peace keeping force

excellent points, all of them. especially the one about the enemy priests heading home to quell their religious problems. I have seen that in action many a time!

[Turbo]

If you limit the priests to one per settlement, that stops a lot of the priest spamming. Personally I limit all the agents (spy, diplomat, etc) to one per settlement as I find these a distraction and the AI is better off building units instead.