I reject leftism, how about you?

[dogukan]

"Everything bad and I don't like is leftism"

How shallow can we get with this?

[Heathen Hammer]

These people are SO shallow to oppose ideology that caused the biggest loss of life on planet throughout human history.

[antaeus]

These people are SO shallow to oppose ideology that caused the biggest loss of life on planet throughout human history.

"The left" contains more than one ideology. Shallow is when one assumes otherwise.

[Cyclops]

khm..

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Quite right, Hitler lost so hard he broke Germany into pieces. Has there ever been a worse loser? Then again he never had children so he did that for German purity at least.

Since 1863 poor people vote for the SPD. And are still poor.

...the same people voting for 150 years? I smell a ratte.

As for the Deutschritterordern didn't they get touched up by the Lithuanians, the Poles and the Russians? Each of those groups in turn had their ups and downs but because they had heart and spirit they rose again. The Knights? Well they have a few charities they were given by other people. Europe lost nothing when their lands were secularised, they were essentially barbarous genocidal bigots, like the worst sort of Mujahidin.

Germany gives us so many great people and great cultural moments and movements. Its sad a few scumbags diminish that heritage, and even sadder when people idolise the scumbags.

[Heathen Hammer]

"The left" contains more than one ideology. Shallow is when one assumes otherwise.

Not really, since leftist ideas are totalitarian by nature. Scratch a democratic socialist, you'll find a Mao/Stalin-worshipping tankie.
Now imagine how ed GOP would be if one of its senators would go to some kind of NatSoc paramilitary training facility in 1960s lol.

[Mithradates]

Quite right, Hitler lost so hard he broke Germany into pieces. Has there ever been a worse loser? Then again he never had children so he did that for German purity at least.

...and after the nazis were gone, West-Germany quickly recovered and thrived while the nightmare still continued in East Germany, so no, the nazis were not the only group in German history who had a track record of destroying culture and religion and ethics, the commies did that too.
It was not the Gestapo kicking down doors anymore, it was the Stasi now. During their 45 years of reign the "leftists" ed East-Germany up so much that 30 years after the reunification East German territories still lag behind.

[dogukan]

Left does not mean communism and right does not mean Nazism....Left is not an ideology and right is not an ideology. These are contextual concepts...

[Cyclops]

...and after the nazis were gone, West-Germany quickly recovered and thrived while the nightmare still continued in East Germany, so no, the nazis were not the only group in German history who had a track record of destroying culture and religion and ethics, the commies did that too.
It was not the Gestapo kicking down doors anymore, it was the Stasi now. During their 45 years of reign the "leftists" ed East-Germany up so much that 30 years after the reunification East German territories still lag behind.

Yeah and all those wars the GDR started, and the tens of millions slaughtered, and the way they crashed Germany like a suicide bomber, I stand corrected [/END SARCASM].

Shabby whatabouitism aside, you're not seriously comparing the East German communists to the Nazi regime are you? The GDR was a horrid police state but Nazi Germany was Hell on earth.

The Nazis had literally no staying power, less than twenty years of their worthless regime and they were all either dead or serving their enemies. The worthless GDR surrendered almost without a fight but even they lasted over thirty years. I mean the Nazis were more spineless and worse for Germany than even the East German communists by a wide margin, thats how despicable and degraded they were. It must burn the heart of every Hitler simp that their hero was so weak and wretched and so wrong. Fuhrer? More like Failhrer amirite.

Left does not mean communism and right does not mean Nazism....Left is not an ideology and right is not an ideology. These are contextual concepts...

Indeed.

[antaeus]

Is it possible to destroy culture? I mean you can forcefully try to change aspects of it...

[Mithradates]

Yeah and all those wars the GDR started, and the tens of millions slaughtered, and the way they crashed Germany like a suicide bomber, I stand corrected [/END SARCASM].

Shabby whatabouitism aside, you're not seriously comparing the East German communists to the Nazi regime are you? The GDR was a horrid police state but Nazi Germany was Hell on earth.

The Nazis had literally no staying power, less than twenty years of their worthless regime and they were all either dead or serving their enemies. The worthless GDR surrendered almost without a fight but even they lasted over thirty years. I mean the Nazis were more spineless and worse for Germany than even the East German communists by a wide margin, thats how despicable and degraded they were. It must burn the heart of every Hitler simp that their hero was so weak and wretched and so wrong. Fuhrer? More like Failhrer amirite.

You said only nazis did those things, I pointed out that later the communists did those things too.
Now you are coming with the "but the nazis were worse!", so, is that suppose to lessen the severity of the crimes of the communists?

[Cyclops]

You said only nazis did those things, I pointed out that later the communists did those things too.
Now you are coming with the "but the nazis were worse!", so, is that suppose to lessen the severity of the crimes of the communists?

I said "Well the only group in German history that bangs on about "willen" and has a track record of destroying culture and religion and ethics and starving masses of people is the Nazi Party."

Do you contend the GDR 1.banged on about "willen" 2. destroyed culture and religion and ethics and 3. starved masses of people? I'm sure the GDR has many wretched crimes to its name, but the question here is does OP reject Hitler and all his works. I do, and I am sure you do too.

[Muizer]

As I warned the OP, we're now drifting off topic due to flawed definitions. As we have established, when using the term "the left" the OP includes not just communists, socialists and social democrats, but also Christian Democrats and Laissez Faire Liberals. Considering in his country it's the latter who have been in power for most of the time it is really totally beside the point what socialists, social democrats and communists once did, did elsewhere or would have done. He can reject their ideas but as far as policy goes it obviously concerns what anybody else considers center-right policy.

[razerbelkin]

Good comment Muizer, I will edit the start-post to clear things up a bit.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Fun fact: Hitler was nominally Catholic but hated Christianity. Early Nazi religious propaganda re-branded Jesus as a mortal Aryan skeptic who fought against insidious Jewish elites. Hitler encouraged his top henchmen to retain membership in the Roman Church as a matter of political interest, in the same way Party hacks were installed in key institutions throughout German society. The effort to conflate the OP’s position with Nazism for its praise of traditional institutions while also skewering it for a lack of specificity suggests the latter isn’t needed for his critics to conclude what they’ve already decided.

[Heathen Hammer]

I said "Well the only group in German history that bangs on about "willen" and has a track record of destroying culture and religion and ethics and starving masses of people is the Nazi Party."

In German history that would be Teutonic and Livonian orders. In fact, they were much worse, if you consider that they wiped out whole tribes of Baltic and Slavic Pagans.
In European history its even more widespread and recent, when we look at vicious inhumanity with which Britain and France treated their colonial population, with mass genocides by millions as well as controlled famines and forced conscription.
Then we have Lenin and Stalin who did far worse atrocities then all Axis powers combined.
So if you look at the context, German socialists were apt pupils of genocide, which they learned from their genocidal tutors, be it Western "democracies" or Soviet despots.

but the question here is does OP reject Hitler and all his works.

You make socialist dictator sound like an omnipotent being with evil superpowers. Hitler wasn't demon or Satan, he was product of his time, whose rise was largely funded by "liberal democracy", much like another socialist dictator in Moscow.

[razerbelkin]

but the question here is does OP reject Hitler and all his works. I do, and I am sure you do too.

If I reject him and all his works? Of course I do! I never use the Autobahn, only Landstraßen. But only those streets, that were not built by him, I am that consequent! Also I despise his animal welfare laws.
I am a monarchist if that´s what you want to know. I want my Kaiser back, and if Irlmaier is right, there will be a monarchy again. Unfortunately , there won´t be many left to see it... But thats enough off-topic now.

[Muizer]

The way I see it you're welcome to your opinions even though they're obviously far removed from my own .... unless. Unless part of those beliefs is that, given the opportunity, you would deny that same courtesy to me and others your ideals conflict with. That could be either by propagating un-democratic means to seize power, or (a very popular strategem these days) to use a democratic mandate to manipulate the democratic process, e.g. by curtailing participation in elections of voters and opposition and the freedom of the press etc. with the aim of retaining power. For instance, would you support a Orban, Erdogan or Putin style regime if it served your political ideals?

[antaeus]

On reassessment...

I'm not entirely certain that this thread should even exist.

"I don't like some people... some people ruined my country... what do you think" ...just isn't up to scratch as a debate topic.

The OP should include some sort of analysis to debate. Otherwise All I need to do to respond is say the OP is stupid, laugh, and walk away.

[razerbelkin]

The way I see it you're welcome to your opinions even though they're obviously far removed from my own .... unless. Unless part of those beliefs is that, given the opportunity, you would deny that same courtesy to me and others your ideals conflict with. That could be either by propagating un-democratic means to seize power, or (a very popular strategem these days) to use a democratic mandate to manipulate the democratic process, e.g. by curtailing participation in elections of voters and opposition and the freedom of the press etc. with the aim of retaining power. For instance, would you support a Orban, Erdogan or Putin style regime if it served your political ideals?

I very much like Orban and Putin, but Erdogan is incompetent in my eyes. But I am also for freedom of speech, even if that sounds a bit paradox at the moment. Living in post war Germany, thats something I miss dearly. As I said, I am all for monarchy, because democracy is not an ideal form of government. I am very much with Schiller on this issue:

"What is innocent, holy, humanly good if it is not the fight for the fatherland." Friedrich Schiller

What is the majority? Majority is nonsense.
Mind has always been with a few.
Worries about the whole, who has nothing?
Does the beggar have any freedom, any choice?
He must give to the powerful who pays him
sell his voice for bread and boots.
One should weigh the votes and not count them.
The state must perish, sooner or later,
where majority wins and ignorance decides.

Demetrius I (Sapieha)
Quote from Friedrich Schiller
Friedrich Schiller
German writer
* November 10, 1759, † May 9, 1805

Now , why am I so pissed off at the left? Because they ruined my country. Take a look at where Germany stands today,

SUMMARY OF THE MERKEL ERA:
➨ the lowest private household wealth of all euro countries
➨ the lowest pension entitlements in the EU
➨ one of the highest tax burdens worldwide
➨ the highest rents, the fewest homes
➨ the highest electricity and gas prices in the world
➨ Excessive foreign crime caused by immigration
➨ economically insane ideology-based energy and economic policy
➨ merciless relinquishment of control over national borders
➨ Destruction of the country's energy and industrial base
➨ Destruction of security in the country
➨ Billions in compensation payments to energy companies because of the premature exit from nuclear power
➨ More than 140 billion euros per year alimony for almost four million illegal immigrants (if not more), that is already more than 20% of the total annual tax revenue
➨ Toleration of foreigner/migrant crime
➨ Suspension of the right to asylum and Article 16a of the Basic Law for uncontrolled immigration
➨ Immigration and alimentation of the unidentifiable, Islamists, terrorists, jihadists
➨ Decay of schools, universities, roads, bridges, day-care centers, in short the infrastructure
➨ Closure of indoor/outdoor pools, theatres, youth clubs (allegedly lack of money)
➨ Neglect of the elderly, children, young people, the homeless, the socially disadvantaged, education
➨ highest pension and child poverty
➨ highest number of homeless people
➨ Highest number of members of the Bundestag, highest allowance payments
➨ Highest number of German victims of "crime in the context of immigration" (BKA situation report)
➨ Exorbitant asylum fraud with multiple identities
➨ Failure to deport the most criminal asylum seekers
➨ Judicial scandals (comfortable verdicts for clan and gang crime, rapists...)
➨ Highest level of violence against the police, rescue workers, doctors, fire brigade...
➨ Daily knife attacks
➨ Hundreds of millions of euros in child benefits for non-existent children abroad
➨ Terrorist attacks (Breitscheidplatz, train station pushers, knife and ax murderers...)
➨ Internet censorship, gag order, defamation, insults and work bans for critics of their policies
➨ Indoctrination, manipulation, bans, bringing the media into line
➨ Division of one's own party, of families, society, Europe
➨ Creeping expropriation of German savers by the devastating zero interest rate policy of the ECB
➨ Precarious employment (temporary/temporary work), top position for low wages
➨ Squandering billions of tax dollars all over the world
➨ Highest share of social security contributions (20.6 percent of gross income)
➨ After moving away from coal/nuclear power generation, there are no sensible and economical alternatives
➨ "Climate package" rip-off (including increased prices for diesel, petrol, gas, flights), upcoming ban on oil heating
➨ Destruction of hundreds of thousands of jobs
➨ High emigration of skilled workers
➨ Islamization of the country/Islam appeasement
➨ Toleration and support for left-wing extremism/left-wing violence
➨ Billion deficit in health insurance due to asylum seeker costs
➨ Compulsion to finance government propaganda (GEZ)
➨ Introduction of socialist planned economy/renaissance of the SED/GDR
Fuel prices are going through the roof and it's only going to get a whole lot worse and that affects all energy prices. .
Internet at the level of developing countries. Internet censorship at Stasi level.


@antaeus: crying for closing my thread is so "left" of you.

[Heathen Hammer]

Its kinda funny to read accusation of not having one's political beliefs up to the current year's code, especially the whole "would you support a dictatorship" stance for people that defend draconian lockdowns and other forms of neoliberal authoritarianism in so many Western "democracies". Also its even funnier when they bring up Orban, even though Hungarians are far more free, de-facto, then Germans and Austrians.