Why do you believe in God, or why not?

[basics]

Other than hearsay, i.e. testimony from a time when people were notoriously superstitious passed on by those equally uncritical, what have you got to demonstrate the validity of your account?

Muizer,

The Bible is all the validity I need to know what God has done and still doing in our universes as a whole. Watched a programme last night about a scientist who discovered soft tissue in a fossil reckoned to be billions of years old something that had it really been billions of years old would be impossible as soft tissue rots away quite quickly at death. Those were her words not mine, so that's not heresay at all.

[Muizer]

You're dodging the question, Basics

[conon394]

Watched a programme last night about a scientist who discovered soft tissue in a fossil reckoned to be billions of years old something that had it really been billions of years old would be impossible as soft tissue rots away quite quickly at death. Those were her words not mine, so that's not heresay at all.

Source? As per usual none but I think you are refering to this...

https://www.theguardian.com/science/...ssil-fragments

So that would properly millions of years not billions. And second second for a man committed to young earth creationism not sure I feel you are in a position to elucidate on what is possible or not in fossil survival.

[razerbelkin]

I just learned of this young man via Facebook, and thought I share. What about holy persons whose bodies won´t decay after death? Like José Luiz Sanchez Del Rio?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I quote the german wikipedia:

Historical background
The Mexican government established a Rome-independent state church in February 1925 and began implementing the anti-clerical provisions of the 1917 constitution.
In addition, President Plutarco Elias Calles issued the so-called Ley Calles in 1926, which gave the Catholic Church freedom, e.g. B. severely restricted by the ban on celibacy and the ban on many religious orders. Furthermore, church property was confiscated by presidential order, religious schools were closed and priests were either exiled or murdered. All of this led to organized resistance in the Catholic population of Mexico and thus the insurrectionary movement of the Cristeros
arose and the Guerra Cristera broke out.


Life
When the Guerra Cristera broke out in 1926, José Sánchez del Río wanted to join the Cristeros like his brothers. After initially being refused admission in his home town of Sahuayo, he managed to convince General Prudencio Mendoza in Cotija, a few kilometers away, that he should join the Cristeros. He was then placed under the command of General Rubén Guízar Morfin, who gave him u. assigned the task of standard-bearer.

During a fight, the boy was arrested on February 6, 1928. In prison, soldiers tried in vain to dissuade him from his Catholic faith.

On February 10, 1928, José had the soles of his feet slashed and made to walk back and forth on bare salt. In the end, he had to walk the long way to his place of execution in severe pain on his bruised feet. On the way he was offered: "If you cry out 'Death to Christ the King!' then we will spare you." But José called out: "Viva Cristo Rey! Viva la Virgen de Guadalupe!” At the cemetery in Sahuayo, they tried in vain to persuade him to apostasy. He was then shot in the head. Falling to the ground, dying, he drew a cross on the ground with his blood-smeared fingers and kissed it.[1] His execution was witnessed first-hand by the later founder of the Legionaries of Christ, Marcial Maciel.[2]

The remains of José Sánchez del Rio were buried in the Church of the Sacred Heart of Jesus in his birthplace, Sahuayo.[3]

canonization process
He was beatified on November 20, 2005 at the Estadio Jalisco in Guadalajara by order of Pope Benedict XVI. along with twelve other Mexican martyrs.
Then the process of canonization began. On January 22, 2016, Pope Francis confirmed a healing attributed to the intercession of José Sánchez del Río as a miracle as a crucial requirement for canonization.[4] On October 16, 2016, he was canonized by Pope Francis in St. Peter's Square in Rome.[5] His liturgical memorial is November 20th.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3...z_del_R%C3%ADo

The fotos are from facebook

[basics]

You're dodging the question, Basics

Muizer,

The validity of what I have written is my own testimony of how God brought me to Jesus Christ.

[conon394]

The validity of what I have written is my own testimony of how God brought me to Jesus Christ.

Problem is that same certainty of belief leads others to a certainty of reincarnation, or being martyr via suicide bombing or killing a doctor who preforms abortions or going on a crusade. And they all remain utterly incontestable.

[basics]

conon394,

Have you ever met someone who has been reincarnated? What good are seventytwo virgins to a guy who has just blown his testicles off? For me I just look forward to the day when all my suffering ends according to the promises that God made to me.

[conon394]

Have you ever met someone who has been reincarnated? What good are seventytwo virgins to a guy who has just blown his testicles off? For me I just look forward to the day when all my suffering ends according to the promises that God made to me.

Can't say if they been reincarnated or became martyr but have met people who different but as earnest belief as yours.

[basics]

Can't say if they been reincarnated or became martyr but have met people who different but as earnest belief as yours.

conon394,

In other words no, you haven't met one of these. Oh, others may well have earnest beliefs but there is only One in which man can be saved from the wrath of God, that One being the Lord Jesus Christ.

[conon394]

conon394,

In other words no, you haven't met one of these. Oh, others may well have earnest beliefs but there is only One in which man can be saved from the wrath of God, that One being the Lord Jesus Christ.

You know full well that is a circular reply. Your belief is well based on belief, just as somebody believes they will be reincarnated and that their gods are not cruelly inflicting sin on the world. Where does this wrath of god come from again please enlighten me?

[Muizer]

The validity of what I have written is my own testimony of how God brought me to Jesus Christ.

Millions before you have been told this by their parents, village elders, teachers, priests and kings: "it is true because I say so". You're just extending this chain of hearsay for another generation. That's all there is to it. You're of course welcome to your faith and I'm not trying to reason you or anyone out of it, but please understand how incredibly weak this is if you want to convince someone else what you say has merit. That's why I asked

Other than hearsay, i.e. testimony from a time when people were notoriously superstitious passed on by those equally uncritical, what have you got to demonstrate the validity of your account?

[basics]

Muizer,

Well, put it this way, I am now seventy nine plus meaning only ten months away from eighty and I feel my life winding down but what keeps me strong is not me but the Spirit of God living in me. It took forty years of sinning before I heard the Gospel and boy did it strike at my very heart that for all these years I had wasted my life never thinking that it could all change. That happened the night I was put on my knees to feel the love of God pour over my body and for the first time in so many years I was able to sleep without painkillers which had been my only source of comfort till then. My life changed in that I knew that there was indeed a God and moreover a future for me in His Kingdom and not having to pay for my sin anymore because that price had been paid by Jesus Christ at the cross for people like me. I believe in God because He made it possible for me to believe.

[razerbelkin]

[basics]

I know that every time I make a post that most will disagree with me but the thing is I do so continue knowing that God has someone out there with whom He wishes to save. It took forty years for Him to draw me in so being patient is the key in what I do.

[MaximiIian]

I´d like to know, why you believe in God. Are there any experiences you had you cannot explain otherwise, or do you believe without "hard evidence"? Also I´d like to know why you don´t believe in God, why are you atheist? Curious for what you people will reply. Let´s discuss

I am a devotional polytheist, I believe in many gods. I believe in them largely because I have had personal spiritual experiences involving them, up to and including ecstatic and mantic epiphanies/theophanies, and have witnessed different but similar experiential states in others. I have adjusted my beliefs at various points based on my experiences, and evaluated my experiences through discernment and comparing/contrasting with the experiences of other polytheists.

I'm a skeptic at heart; even when I started out practising Paganism, I wasn't really all-in on hard polytheism, and it took a while for me to have vivid experiences that guided me in that direction. I recommend that course of action, generally-- don't believe extraordinary things unless you've experienced it yourself. I certainly don't expect others to take my claims and experiences at face value.

[mishkin]

suggestion for a new title: Why would you support and try to justify an entity responsible for all the horrible misfortunes that occur in this world?

[basics]

So, are there other gods? Yes, but only in the imagination of men not in reality. God knew this and so incorporated it into the second Commandment. Nobody can ever know God unless He makes it possible by giving them a new heart to believe for many are called but few are chosen as Mathew writes. It's not an easy experience to live with for it quickly becomes apparent that those you once saw as friends or relatives have become not so friendly even those of a blood relationship. It's not just you who change but them also who see that change as well and in most cases they object to it. In their eyes whence once you were OK, not so now, thinking you bonkers.

Therefore my experience is just as I write it and pretty similar to that of all my brothers and sisters in Christ. I was never and am still not an academic as every job I ever had I had to roll my sleeves up to get to the top which I did in every case. The good thing is that I can look back and see God at work in me for all my eighty years plus on this planet I am at peace knowing that one day I will be with Him rather than be in that other place wishing things had turned out different.

[Lord Thesaurian]

I am a devotional polytheist, I believe in many gods. I believe in them largely because I have had personal spiritual experiences involving them, up to and including ecstatic and mantic epiphanies/theophanies, and have witnessed different but similar experiential states in others. I have adjusted my beliefs at various points based on my experiences, and evaluated my experiences through discernment and comparing/contrasting with the experiences of other polytheists.

I'm a skeptic at heart; even when I started out practising Paganism, I wasn't really all-in on hard polytheism, and it took a while for me to have vivid experiences that guided me in that direction. I recommend that course of action, generally-- don't believe extraordinary things unless you've experienced it yourself. I certainly don't expect others to take my claims and experiences at face value.

I’d be interested to know more about how you conceptualize and acknowledge the old gods. My understanding of paganism is there’s a more modern view of what the “gods” are. While the names, rituals and attributes of them are recognized and adhered to, to an extent, the gods are merely a way to refer to and understand the natural world in a spiritual way - that is, representations of nature, rather than literally existing outside of and independently from nature.

For my part, I’m a former Christian, just not the edgy, resentful kind. I consider biological evolution fundamentally incompatible with Biblical Christianity and so I was intellectually forced to deconvert. Since then further study has led me to believe Jesus did not actually call himself God and was not omniscient, and so more than likely was “just” a prophet. This led me to explore Islam more, but the same scientific obstacles wouldn’t permit me to convert. Which is all a long way of saying I’m a heartbroken atheist.

[basics]

Isn't it written that a prophet of God cannot lie since he or she speaks for God and so if Jesus was only a prophet He certainly upset the applecart by doing things that no other prophet could do, things that only God could do? To John the Baptist He was the One on Whom Israel expected and to His disciples He certainly was that. He is the Christ, the Son of the living God upon Whom His church shall be built and still is being built. He could calm the sea and wind and even walk on water whilst healing the lame and raising the dead wherever He went and after His crucifixion and resurrection He walked through walls as if they didn't exist.

As for His claims to be God I think of these, " Before Abraham was I AM," and " Me and My Father are One," Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, 'I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?' 'We are not stoning you for any of these,' replied the Jews, 'but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God' " (John 10:30-33). Oh the Jews knew exactly what He was inferring and it wasn't a case of blashemy rather that of exposing their hypocracy which frightened them more. Their cushy lives were under threat and the best way to deal with a threat is to destroy it and so we find that even when taking His life they couldn't let Him die in peace but taunted Him to the bitter end.

But, it wasn't the end was it? Three days later and they couldn't account for the empty tomb so they concocted lies and bribes to cover that or so they thought and yet here was Jesus to be seen talking and eating with people numbering over four hundred until He ascended into heaven. Suddenly there was an explosion of Faith which entered the world as never before as the Word spread and still goes on in places where that Word was banned or never heard of. Today, despite the hostility from the world Jesus Christ is still saving sinners from their sin and will do so until the Eve of His return and the world ceases to exist anymore. I would not write this if I didn't believe that God is real.

[chriscase]

I think 2008 wants its thread back

On the topic of abiogenesis, lots of interesting work has moved us far past the "lightning strike in primordial soup" hypothesis.

https://www.chemistryworld.com/featu...007088.article

As always with new science it's not written in stone

As for the belief in the Christian God, in all candor for me it boils down to simple gut. As Mark Twain said, Faith is believing what you know isn't so. It's sort of like a detective story. The detective goes around, talking to various witnesses and looking for clues. Eventually it becomes clear who is lying.

What does the Christian dogma do for us?
- Tells us there is a grand purpose for our existence
- Tells us that death is not the end of our existence
- Tells us that an all-powerful agency has designs for our continued existence

All of these amount to simple, childish wish fulfillment, i.e. they have all the hallmarks of self-deluding lies we tell ourselves, and - especially - our children. And yes, once we graduate to higher levels of self-delusion we can add in lots of bells and whistles from our philosophy and theology classes. But at its core the religious dogma is still the warm, fuzzy security blanket that gets handed out to impressionable, credulous children every Sunday at church.

So... yeah, to me it's patently, self-evidently not true.