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Thread: Wondering about Roman dates while reading the building scrolls?

  1. #1

    Default Wondering about Roman dates while reading the building scrolls?

    What were the Romans originally using for years? The founding of the City, AUC? I believe I heard that they ultimately has 12 months/year and 7day/week. I believe it was Caesar who reformed the calendar adding month as September mean 7th. not 9th. etc...

    So, when BC and AD come into existence? And when CE and BCE?

    Thanks.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Wondering about Roman dates while reading the building scrolls?

    CE and BCE are euphemisms from the XXIth century, part of the politically correct trend of renaming things. They are the same dates as BC and AD. The point is to keep christmas and easter because those are purchase time (and capitalism needs you!), but anything that doesn't give money, get rid of it's historical roots and put some neo language word in there instead.

    The romans used AUC for most of their history, and AD started being used around the VIth century by christians. It became widespread in the early middle ages as a universal dating system because by then using AUC made no sense anymore, and local dating systems were not as useful for the scholars (but coexisted with AD for a long while, for example the hispanic era).

  3. #3

    Default Re: Wondering about Roman dates while reading the building scrolls?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenikon View Post
    CE and BCE are euphemisms from the XXIth century, part of the politically correct trend of renaming things. They are the same dates as BC and AD. The point is to keep christmas and easter because those are purchase time (and capitalism needs you!), but anything that doesn't give money, get rid of it's historical roots and put some neo language word in there instead.
    CE and BCE are actually several hundred years old. You can still use Christ, in other words follow the abbreviation invented by a monk from the Balkan but I and many others who are atheist or non-Christians feel more comfortable with a non religious wording. Things change.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Wondering about Roman dates while reading the building scrolls?

    You`re right, according to you writing the letters BC is a declaration of faith, so we need to add an extra letter to make it non religious. Have fun, I guess.
    Please do close your eyes when using Coppernicus's work, Mendel's laws or Lemaitre's work on Einsteins' ecuations.
    Honestly, just don't look too deep on anything you use to communicate, lest you find some religious nutcase in the past who started it.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Wondering about Roman dates while reading the building scrolls?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenikon View Post
    You`re right, according to you writing the letters BC is a declaration of faith, so we need to add an extra letter to make it non religious. Have fun, I guess.
    Please do close your eyes when using Coppernicus's work, Mendel's laws or Lemaitre's work on Einsteins' ecuations.
    Honestly, just don't look too deep on anything you use to communicate, lest you find some religious nutcase in the past who started it.
    What an adult reaction... It really highlights your view that what you want is legitimate and what people like me want is illegitimate. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Wondering about Roman dates while reading the building scrolls?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenikon View Post
    CE and BCE are euphemisms from the XXIth century, part of the politically correct trend of renaming things. They are the same dates as BC and AD. The point is to keep christmas and easter because those are purchase time (and capitalism needs you!), but anything that doesn't give money, get rid of it's historical roots and put some neo language word in there instead.
    I suggest for us to keep using CE and BCE just to bring these reactions, they are hilarious. It is funny how reactionaries suddenly become the craziest communists, decrying against capitalism, when "political correctness" comes to the fore. Ah yeah, christmas and easter remains because of capitalism... not because of their cultural relevance in close family circles, regardless of religious roots.


    But now, replying to the OP on CE and BCE, simply take a look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Era#Origins


    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenikon View Post
    You`re right, according to you writing the letters BC is a declaration of faith, so we need to add an extra letter to make it non religious. Have fun, I guess.
    Please do close your eyes when using Coppernicus's work, Mendel's laws or Lemaitre's work on Einsteins' ecuations.
    Honestly, just don't look too deep on anything you use to communicate, lest you find some religious nutcase in the past who started it.
    Is this the first time you face the fact that language is flexible, mutable and adaptable? Given that such a small change, that has absolutely no impact upon you, frustrate you that much. For something that people shouldnt worry about changing, you seem awfully worried about how they have changed it for themselves. How come?
    Then, as throngs of his enemies bore down upon him and one of his followers said, "They are making at thee, O King," "Who else, pray," said Antigonus, "should be their mark? But Demetrius will come to my aid." This was his hope to the last, and to the last he kept watching eagerly for his son; then a whole cloud of javelins were let fly at him and he fell.

    -Plutarch, life of Demetrius.

    Arche Aiakidae-Epeiros EB2 AAR

  7. #7

    Default Re: Wondering about Roman dates while reading the building scrolls?

    @Wulfburk, thank you kindly for letting me know what my feelings are when I write a post. You are obviously very well informed about me and my personal life, so thanks for that.

    I explained to the OP what he cannot find on wikipedia, which anyone can type and read. The change from BC to BCE does not come from historiography but from political correctness. Some people consider the words BC offensive but the words BCE are not. However, wikipedia should also include that many think using the words BC have nothing to do with faith, but it doesn't: it conveniently links using BC with religious people wanting to keep it. That article doesn't give more than a single view on the matter, so I obviously gave mine which is different.

    I will give you another view not from myself: one of my closest friends is from morocco, and he finds quite offensive to have the christian calendar imposed over everyone as a "common era", because he knows that this artificial common era will remove AH from usage, while boasting about inclusivity. You find BCE to be a great change and I tell you that not everyone agrees, and wikipedia doesn't even try to include a second opinion

    I explained it to the OP because he asked. Does that bother you? Then it looks to me like you have serious issues handling views that are not your own. You ascribe me laughable political leanings without knowing me, and then proceed to in fact strawman that construct to laugh at it. You don't show to be interested in a good faith debate, so I won't indulge you. I am certainly not wasting anymore of my time elaborating further on this subject. The OP is free to make his/her own mind, and will be perfectly able to realise that there are different views on this topic.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Wondering about Roman dates while reading the building scrolls?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenikon View Post
    I will give you another view not from myself: one of my closest friends is from morocco, and he finds quite offensive to have the christian calendar imposed over everyone as a "common era", because he knows that this artificial common era will remove AH from usage, while boasting about inclusivity. You find BCE to be a great change and I tell you that not everyone agrees, and wikipedia doesn't even try to include a second opinion
    First, i didnt say that it is a great change, I dont care about. But if people want to use it, so be it. The Gregorian calendar dates are embedded into our History and culture, so it is convenient to keep the same year 0. Imagine talking about WW2 in year 5737. It feels weird doesnt it? That is the simple reason Common Era is used today, as a simple rename, and similar terms were used in the 17th and 18th century, by non-christians, for the same reasons: convenience. And a calendar such as that is ALL about convenience. Which brings to my point, no one is imposing it over anyone. And if your friend for some reason finds it offensive (which, for some reason, you seem to respect his sensitivity, but not the sensitivity of those that prefer Common Era over BC and AD, when he finds it offensive, it is legitimate, when others do, it is "political correctness", is that right?), maybe he should take a look at the Holocene calendar, or Human Era Calendar.
    Then, as throngs of his enemies bore down upon him and one of his followers said, "They are making at thee, O King," "Who else, pray," said Antigonus, "should be their mark? But Demetrius will come to my aid." This was his hope to the last, and to the last he kept watching eagerly for his son; then a whole cloud of javelins were let fly at him and he fell.

    -Plutarch, life of Demetrius.

    Arche Aiakidae-Epeiros EB2 AAR

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Wondering about Roman dates while reading the building scrolls?

    I think we, as proud players of Europa Romanorum, should take steps in the direction of forcing the world to use AUC. Also, happy 2775!

  10. #10
    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Wondering about Roman dates while reading the building scrolls?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenikon View Post
    I explained to the OP what he cannot find on wikipedia, which anyone can type and read. The change from BC to BCE does not come from historiography but from political correctness. Some people consider the words BC offensive but the words BCE are not. However, wikipedia should also include that many think using the words BC have nothing to do with faith, but it doesn't: it conveniently links using BC with religious people wanting to keep it. That article doesn't give more than a single view on the matter, so I obviously gave mine which is different.
    That's just technically wrong, since the "Common Era" is first found in English going back to 1708, stemming from the "Vulgar Era" established by Johannes Kepler in 1615 (with English Vulgar Era first being written about in 1635). By the late 18th and early 19th centuries Jewish scholars in Europe were using it as a secular means to avoid the usage of Christ and Lord. It originally had nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with non-Christians who wanted to use the same dating system as Christians in Western Christendom (for that matter, BC/AD wasn't even used by the Greek Orthodox east until modern times, and originally Christians used Roman Emperor Diocletian's reign as a starting point for their era due to his persecutions of Christians, whether exaggerated or not).

    What's the matter Hellenikon? You don't like Jews?

    I honestly don't understand why anyone gets upset when someone uses either BC/AD or BCE/CE. I could care less. Hell, use the Latin Ab Urbe Condita ("from the founding of the city" of Rome) or the Greek Olympiad if it floats your boat, or Chinese dynastic cycles, or you can be edgy and change your name to an Arabic one on the forum, and convert to Islam while insisting others use the Islamic calendar era dating to Mohammad's first Hijra in 622 AD (or excuse me, YEAR ONE, YOU FRANKISH INFIDEL).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ampe211 View Post
    I think we, as proud players of Europa Romanorum, should take steps in the direction of forcing the world to use AUC. Also, happy 2775!
    See? This guy gets it. SPQR for the win.

    ROMA VICTRIX! ROMA INVICTA!

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    Roma_Victrix's Avatar Call me Ishmael
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    Default Re: Wondering about Roman dates while reading the building scrolls?

    Quote Originally Posted by MeiguoJinjang View Post
    What were the Romans originally using for years? The founding of the City, AUC? I believe I heard that they ultimately has 12 months/year and 7day/week. I believe it was Caesar who reformed the calendar adding month as September mean 7th. not 9th. etc...

    So, when BC and AD come into existence? And when CE and BCE?

    Thanks.
    Romans used AUC as well as Fasti consulares, a dating system based on who was elected as consul for the year.

    Ancient peoples across the Hellenistic Mediterranean world used a variety of dating systems, for instance the Athenians based it on the governing eponymous archon of democratic Athens.

    More broadly, the Greeks living across the Mediterranean also used the Olympiad era, the four year cycle of the Ancient Olympic Games founded in the year 776 BC.

    I see you have a Chinese name, so you're probably familiar with how contemporary ancient Chinese organized calendar dates based on dynastic cycles and reigning emperors who used different era names (or in 272 BC when the game starts, the various kings of China's Warring States Period). There were of course other calendar eras used, like the Huangdi calendar era (黄帝紀年) based on the reign of the mythical Yellow Emperor.

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    Default Re: Wondering about Roman dates while reading the building scrolls?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    or you can be edgy and change your name to an Arabic one on the forum, and convert to Islam while insisting others use the Islamic calendar era dating to Mohammad's first Hijra in 622 AD.
    Why does this sound like this actually happened lol

  13. #13

    Default Re: Wondering about Roman dates while reading the building scrolls?

    Actually that means US Civil War in Mandarin which is a long story why I am using it for gmail. Chinese (Han) names are generally three characters except sometimes two characters in the North. Although I am not Chinese, but third generation of American of Germanic ancestry.

    However, I do have (as per requirement) declared a legal Chinese name.

  14. #14
    TheRomanRuler's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Wondering about Roman dates while reading the building scrolls?

    I just hate CE because of how clumsy it is to say. BCE should also be shortened to BC for same reason, it could still mean Before Common era. Common era is nice to say, so is Anno Domini, but AD is much more pleasant to say than CE.
    Apologies for anyone who's message i may miss or not be able to answer

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