All Peasants plus others have sharpened stakes?

**ebak** · January 30, 2007, 03:27 AM

Is my installation bugged or do all the peasants now have sharpened stakes?

I never really liked playing England but giving the Longbowmen ability to all the peasants may be a bit too much. I noticed this because during a battle when I had several peasants, I was shocked to see they could cunningly plant sharpened stakes.

This could mean that everyone now can use that tactic with wild abandon. Battle of Agincourt, anyone? Only this time it's with peasants...

**Ebusitanus** · January 30, 2007, 07:35 AM

The question should rather be...should a defending army that has not been ambushed not be able to cut some nearby trees and frabricate stakes for its defense?
Why is this ability something that only certain archers of britain are able to reproduce? Is this some arkane knowledge that can only be passed genetically from longbowmen to longbowmen? No one else in 400 years game time is able to learn from them.

/rant off

**Odie the King** · January 30, 2007, 08:44 AM

I would love it if the AI would start using the dang stakes.. maybe they would wipe out my cavalry since having 1 unit of cavalry in my army is all it takes to win a battle because the cavalry is way too powerful

**ebak** · January 31, 2007, 01:58 AM

You have a good point, Ebusitanus, however, why then was such a tactic not in widespread use at that period in time? Perhaps because peasants lacked the training, discipline and the foresight to accomplish this. Otherwise, it would have been a stakefest....
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The question should rather be...should a defending army that has not been ambushed not be able to cut some nearby trees and frabricate stakes for its defense?
Why is this ability something that only certain archers of britain are able to reproduce? Is this some arkane knowledge that can only be passed genetically from longbowmen to longbowmen? No one else in 400 years game time is able to learn from them.
________________________________________________________________________________________

Using that line of thinking, it could also be argued, that ANY unit can be ordered and trained to just 'cut some nearby trees and fabricate stakes for its defense'. ANY unit then, can be given the tools for setting up and sharpening the stakes for their defense. A lot of other things could have been done by just any unit...

Also, in terms of gameplay, if such an ability were so standard to all peasants and archers, then the longbowmen would lose their uniqueness...

**Ebusitanus** · January 31, 2007, 05:58 AM

Hey...I´m not talking about learning how to build composite bows or Balistas. We are talking about a young tree trunk stuck in the earth with a pointy side looking towards the would be enemy. Hardly rocket science and I very much doubt Welsh longbowmen were the only ones to use this simple tool during the whole middle ages. Ad hoc field fortifications are as old as armies.

I would be very much in favor of giving this ability to a certain unit in every national army in game.

**MrMerisi** · January 31, 2007, 08:36 AM

Well if the AI doesn't know how to use them then it's really just the player's choice if he wants to employ them or not.

I can't remember if they're automatically disabled in deserts. Anyone?

**repman** · January 31, 2007, 03:01 PM

Never paid attention to the stakes,.....

repman

**hravatskopravo** · January 31, 2007, 09:07 PM

hey boss would you mind checking out the rank system thread?

**Hells Bells** · February 02, 2007, 04:59 PM

there should be an experience requirement for planting stakes. It doesnt make sense that a mob of untrained peasants would have the wherewhithal and kno how to do this./ though an ezperienced bunch with an astute commander would.

**cave sexte** · February 02, 2007, 07:07 PM

Actually, that would depend on what peasants, and where. Flemish peasants in particular were known for developing some pretty nasty surprises, largely without help from the local nobility. For instance, they developed a fairly nasty weapon called the "gutentag," or "good day!" which was remarkably effective against both armored and unarmored cavalry and infantry. Similarly, english peasantry invented the billhook as a farming instrument, and then adapted it for use as a weapon. And lets not forget the peasant farmers of okinawa and thailand, who invented some of the most powerful and effective martial arts in the world.
Russian and french peasants, by contrast, were pretty much walking targets for anything that wanted to eat, rape, or kill them. On the other hand, peasants are clearly experienced with outdoor construction work, so it makes sense that they'd be able to deploy stakes defensively.

**Adam the VIth** · February 05, 2007, 05:25 AM

Turks were the original users of the stakes against Crusaders, though the precise date and circumstances are beyond me without my reference book. They really took it to a group of Crusading knights with that tactic.

However, the English used it well at Agincourt and deserve some advantage from that. MOst nations just put their spearmen/pikemen out there to protect the archers. Who needs the stakes if you have appropriate infantry. Sort of like land mines, they can mess you up if you have plans to go over to the offensive.

The English worked it so well, because they actually planted them, then unplanted them, marched within bow-range of the Frenchies, replanted them, and then rained arrows on the French.

Great new book out (will find author and edit this post) -- Henry V and the Agincourt Campaign. Great stuff and really excellent as a possible reference for the late period of MTW2.

**Tokus*Maximus** · February 02, 2007, 06:37 PM

I love the stakes. I've had my grotty Engleeeesh small army in a northern (previous French) settlement. The Spanish appeared off the coast and landed a huge army. Next turn they beseige me! In a desperate gamble, my canny Longbowelmen dig in their pointy sticks behind the main gate. They enemy break down the gate without bothering to knock (bloody vandals!). The in-flooding large Spanish army mainly of light and hvy horse get shish-kebabbled en masse. Their general does a dramatic fling from his dead horse on the spikes! My small army then cuts up the remaining demoralised foot troops by the time they reach the central square after being threshed like young barley by the killer cloud of burning bodkin fire rain. Nice one lads! That taught 'em!