The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

[Knight of Heaven]

Just Some Guy is one them. Look it up.

I do see the problem with the brown people being mentally weak slaves of evil, the black people being "like half trolls" and the asian looking people being halforcs.

WTF now you are projecting stuff into it, that isnt there, nor it wasnt meant to say that in any way. If there is people who see orks as black people, then those people have issues.

I mean it is weird to have people randomly be of entirely different ethnicities than the majority but still be from the same geographic area. I don't think that is anything but objective fact. If you're gonna change ethnicities in a fantasy world, at least make it be mostly native to one area and not just pure tokenism that doesn't really make sense within the established world's ethnic mix

Exactly it is weird. I dont have an issue with them portraying Haradrim and such quite the contrary. The thing is, today they must reflect modern multicultural western society into a fictional work of art because its the PC thing to do. And its how corporations roll nowadays. Hence the black hobbits, and Elves and dwarfs etc

Who told you this? Google Svartalfar. They are alternately considered dwarves and elves and they are black.

I think Tolkien set out to write down the bedtime stories he told to his kids, based on his homebrew language set. He patched together the often very lovely ideas that were in his heart and sold it to a paying audience. This isn't the Bible. He didn't set out to create a British Anglo something something.

Edit: IIRC the first language he toyed with was Gothic or other Germanic related (no influence on Britain AFAIK) as the pre-Adunaic tongue of men, but this remains unpublished. The most famous creations are the Elvish tongues, one of which is chiefly inspired by Finnish/ the other is Welsh mostly with dashes of Norse etc.

Come on now. Dark Elves not the same thing as African looking people. And you know it. As for what the Tolkien tried to do, that is very well documented, and even by his own words. I didnt said Lord of the rings are a Bible. Even though there is obvious christian themes in it. I said he created a English Mythology. A English Epic. Unless you are saying Rural England and the Shire are inconsequential?! For example.

I mean there is essays and books about it, its not me saying just because.

https://thehistoryvault.co.uk/tolkie...logy/#comments

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I think he tried to make money. Occasionally he made a decent artistic decision (eg in the Hobbit the dwarves actually have a plan, unlike in the book) but there's heaps of unnecessary changes. The removal of Glorfindel and giving some of his role to Arwen were clumsy attempts to address the sexism of the original.

Movie industry is a business of course he tried to make money, because this things cost money. But if you know anything about Peter Jackson journey to make Lord of the rings, financial success was far from being guaranteed. Literally no one wanted to make his movies. Much less 3 of them. Which at the time was very very risky.

disagree, they are trying to make money. If its a bunch of white guys speaking in Chris Tolkien's garbage semi old timey waffle it'll bomb.

Again its a business, yet not only they are infusing it with nowadays social/political paradigms and trends of Hollywood, it also seems like a pet vanity project for Jeff Bezos i think. They already have the 5 seasons paid for. Regardless of critic, or financial success. As what is the most expensive TV series in history. They also chose two people with a no resumé at all to write it, and run it.

What have they done to snow white oh christ I prefer not to know.

Edit: ### I am crying. bastards!

I mean its in her name.. But im sure making Snow white black, and turning the seven dwarfs into the seven magical creatures. It so so much edgy, and relevant towards the dogma of social justice. So brave and stunning. Its funny you are crying. Im actually laughing at it.

Tolkien talks little of skin color. He simply describes elves as the fairest of all, yet, that doesn't really mean white within the context he uses. He pays a lot more attention to hair color. Yet, none of you would make the same fuss over that. I wonder why...

That is bull . Tolkien is pretty specific about that. And about everything in the universe he created actually.

He uses the word fair to describe both skin color, and hair, and sometimes he uses it with a different meaning. And goes out of his way to specify what he means with the word fair each time actually.
For example "The Fallohides were fairer of skin and also of hair." ( the fallowhide hobbits) When he was talking about Luthien the meaning of Fair is beautiful ( fairest of all maidens). When he is talking about Vanyar he is talking about hair color. Like i said he specifies what the word means each time...

Tolkien used fairest to describe several Eldar and, I assume, not always as an adjective for their physical beauty, but also to their character or nobility. I think that is the case when he uses it to describe Ecthelion, in The Fall of Gondolin for example.

He also describes the elves having long dark hair (with the exception of a few who had blonde hair). Which makes the depiction of Elrond in the Rings of power already wrong, as well that Don lemon looking wood elf, they couldnt give him long hair i suppose?!!
But hey caring about this things is apparently racist.

[mishkin]

no child is going to protest or raise an eyebrow because snow white does not have marble white skin and the same should happen to adults with a dark skinned elf. but for some reason, here you are.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

Honestly i don't have a problem with a black Cinderella or Snowwhite, if it would be more to Grimms original fairy tale. And this are fairy tales (FAIRY TALES, not HISTORY) from my german heritage.

I have more problems with the US sweeter as sugar Disney adaptions of them.

I would love a Nibelungen adaption with a strong,blackhaired female warrior queen Brunhild and a revenge and bloodthirsty, blonde Kriemhild, so much potential for a Epos...

[Knight of Heaven]

no child is going to protest or raise an eyebrow because snow white does not have marble white skin and the same should happen to adults with a dark skinned elf. but for some reason, here you are.

Which is it? there is people who criticize it or there isnt. Pick a lane.

Nobody cares about Snow White. But stands as one more example Which is within the context i mentioned it.
They changed the dwarfs into magical creatures to not be seen as offensive. Even after the dwarf community bashing Disney for its decision for diminishing dwarf acting roles, as they are spare as it is. But hey anything for virtue signaling points i guess. And the funny part its all because of a Peter Dinklage tweet, where he said that hoped Disney wouldn't portray dwarfs as stereotypical in Snow white ( so they cant be mining). SO Disney in order to not be seen as offensive they change it. Only to make the dwarf acting community pissed at Disney and Peter.

Its funny because Peter Dinklage made his carreer and wealth by playing a Stereotypical dwarf. Like i said im laughing at this. At its absurdity.

[mishkin]

But hey anything for virtue signaling points i guess.

The ### is this? Where can I get my points? What do I get in return?

[Knight of Heaven]

The ### is this? Where can I get my points? What do I get in return?

You feel good about yourself.
How Sanctimonious moral correct one must feel, by doing it. That is why people do it usually.

[Infidel144]

Tolkien started his writings in 1917 (i.e. the Fall of Gondolin), his first child was not born until late that year.

Letter 163:
"I went to King Edward's School and spent most of my time learning Latin and Greek; but I also learned English. Not English Literature! Except Shakespeare (which I disliked cordially), the chief contacts with poetry were when one was made to try and translate it into Latin. Not a bad mode of introduction, if a bit casual. I mean something of the English language and its history. I learned Anglo-Saxon at school (also Gothic, but that was an accident quite unconnected with the curriculum though decisive - I discovered in it not only modern historical philology, which appealed to the historical and scientific side, but for the first time the study of a language out of mere love: I mean for the acute aesthetic pleasure derived from a language for its own sake, not only free from being useful but free even from being the 'vehicle of a literature')."


Taliska is the language referred to as the pre-Adunaic language, of Gothic type. What Tolkien wrote, published in PE 19:
"Danian has in general a Germanic type... Ossir[iandic] has approx[imately] Old English type, East Danian Old Norse, Taliska Gothic."

On Taliska, Tolkiens conceptions of who spoke it changed over time, e.g. in The Lost Road, Tolkien writes: "Now the laguage of these folk [the Beorians, Halethians and Hadorians] was greatly influenced by the Green-elves, and of old it was known as Taliska...". Later, the Beorians and Halethians spoke Taliska, while the Hadorians spoke a proto Adunaic. Then it was the Hadorians and Beorians of whic Tolkien wrote "It needed no lore of tongues to perceive that their languages were closely related...", while the "Folk of Haleth were strangers to the other Atani, speaking an alien language...", see PoME. This is the version published by CT on the express wish of his father (see WotJ).

Tolkien writes of Adunaic as having a "faintly Semetic flavour", as provided by CT in Sauron Defeated.

Letter 25:
"These dwarves are not quite the dwarfs of better known lore. They have been given Scandinavian names, it is true; but that is an editorial concession."
Tolkien took his Dwarves names from the Catalogue of Dwarves in the Volsupa. As Christopher provides in PoME:
"It may not be too far-fetched, I think, to suppose that (together with the idea of the Common Speech) those Dwarf-names in The Hobbit provided the starting-point for the whole structure of the Mannish languages in Middle-earth, as expounded in the present text."

What Tolkien says about Dwarves and Jews in Letter 176:
"I do think of the 'Dwarves' like Jews: at once native and alien in their habitations, speaking the languages of the country, but with an accent due to their own private tongue....."

What Tolkien said when German publishers asked if he was of Aryan origin Letter 29:
"Personally I should be inclined to refuse to give any Bestätigung (although it happens that I can), and let a German translation go hang. In any case I should object strongly to any such declaration appearing in print. I do not regard the (probable) absence of all Jewish blood as necessarily honourable; and I have many Jewish friends, and should regret giving any colour to the notion that I subscribed to the wholly pernicious and unscientific race-doctrine."
And Letter 30:
"But if I am to understand that you are enquiring whether I am of Jewish origin, I can only reply that I regret that I appear to have no ancestors of that gifted people. My great-great-grandfather came to England in the eighteenth century from Germany: the main part of my descent is therefore purely English, and I am an English subject - which should be sufficient. I have been accustomed, nonetheless, to regard my German name with pride, and continued to do so throughout the period of the late regrettable war, in which I served in the English army. I cannot, however, forbear to comment that if impertinent and irrelevant inquiries of this son are to become the rule in matters of literature, then the time is not far distant when a German name will no longer be a source of pride."

On Dwarf-women LotR, App. A:
"Dís was the daughter of Thráin II. She is the only dwarf-woman named in these histories. It was said by Gimli that there are few dwarf-women, probably no more than a third of the whole people. They seldom walk abroad except at great need, They are in voice and appearance, and in garb if they must go on a journey, so like to the dwarf-men that the eyes and ears of other peoples cannot tell them apart. This has given rise to the foolish opinion among Men that there are no dwarf-women, and that the Dwarves 'grow out of stone'. "


Tolkien in his Valedictory Address at Oxford, 1959:
"There are of course other lands under the Southern Cross. I was born in one; though I do not claim to be the most learned of those who have come hither from the far end of the Dark Continent. But I have the hatred of apartheid in my bones; and most of all, I detest the segregation or separation of Language and Literature. I do not care which of them you think White."


The Vanyar were blond, the Sindar were generally dark-haired, though various are described as silver-haired and blonde e.g. Thingol, Cirdan, Earwen, Celeborn, Thranduil, Amroth (perhaps), and some unnamed. The Noldorin red-heads show up in (some of) Feanor's children, who were not descended from Indis, Finwe's Vanya wife, but from Miriel, his Noldo wife (who in Morgoth's Ring, is described: "Silver was her hair and dark were her eyes"). The red-heads are through Nerdanel, Feanor's Noldo wife, though (in earlier writings) Celegorm is noted as a blond.

[PointOfViewGun]

That is bull . Tolkien is pretty specific about that. And about everything in the universe he created actually.

He uses the word fair to describe both skin color, and hair, and sometimes he uses it with a different meaning. And goes out of his way to specify what he means with the word fair each time actually.
For example "The Fallohides were fairer of skin and also of hair." ( the fallowhide hobbits) When he was talking about Luthien the meaning of Fair is beautiful ( fairest of all maidens). When he is talking about Vanyar he is talking about hair color. Like i said he specifies what the word means each time...

Tolkien used fairest to describe several Eldar and, I assume, not always as an adjective for their physical beauty, but also to their character or nobility. I think that is the case when he uses it to describe Ecthelion, in The Fall of Gondolin for example.

He also describes the elves having long dark hair (with the exception of a few who had blonde hair). Which makes the depiction of Elrond in the Rings of power already wrong, as well that Don lemon looking wood elf, they couldnt give him long hair i suppose?!!
But hey caring about this things is apparently racist.

You're using a description of a Hobbit race to argue about elves. But, yes, caring about skin color while not making the same fuss about hair color likely stems from racism.

[Knight of Heaven]

You're using a description of a Hobbit race to argue about elves. But, yes, caring about skin color while not making the same fuss about hair color likely stems from racism.

No, im arguing about the word fair and its usage by Tolkien. Also caring about accurate characterization is not racism as much as you like it to spin it as such. It not just skin color, its several sets of attributes. Skin color is one among them.

I wonder if you wouldn't care about skin color if someone would change skin color of people of Wakanda, or of Black Panther. I would, i dont think that would be right likewise.

[PointOfViewGun]

No, im arguing about the word fair and its usage by Tolkien.

Among other things I pointed at, sure. Were elves in general ever described as fair skinned in any of Tolkien's writings?

[Infidel144]

“They were a race high and beautiful, the older Children of the world, and among them the Eldar were as kings, who now are gone: the People of the Great Journey, the People of the Stars. They were tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed, though their locks were dark, save in the golden house of Finrod; and their voices had more melodies than any mortal voice that now is heard.”
LotR, App. F

[PointOfViewGun]

“They were a race high and beautiful, the older Children of the world, and among them the Eldar were as kings, who now are gone: the People of the Great Journey, the People of the Stars. They were tall, fair of skin and grey-eyed, though their locks were dark, save in the golden house of Finrod; and their voices had more melodies than any mortal voice that now is heard.”
LotR, App. F

The section for Elves under Appendix F of the Lord of the Rings mainly talks about Elvish languages. The description you provide in quotation does not exist in it. The appendix itself is about dialects in Third Age.

[Infidel144]

The section for Elves under Appendix F of the Lord of the Rings mainly talks about Elvish languages. The description you provide in quotation does not exist in it. The appendix itself is about dialects in Third Age.

It does not exist. Strange, since I quoted it directly from App. F. Indeed it is in the last main paragraph of Appendix F, just before the notes on Hobbit, Gamgee and Brandywine.
But, hey, if you say it does not exist...
Maybe my all my different editions are faulty.

===

Does that Vanity fair article actually say Galadriel, warrior princess, is hunting down the collaborators who killed her brother?

===
The stupid, it burns...

[conon394]

Does that Vanity fair article actually say Galadriel, warrior princess, is hunting down the collaborators who killed her brother?

That is a bit weird because there is only person who killed her brother (Finrod) was effectively Sauron. His minions who assisted were long since dead at the end of the first age. If the ideal is that She is concerned that Sauron is about and still able to take fair form that makes a bit more logical sense. Because that what he did. She would in fact be one of the few Nolder left who could not be fooled by him or overwhelmed immediately. Making her a warrior is a bit silly like her brother the bulk of JRRs work (published and all the unpublished stuff) shows a a mystic/user of magic etc.

[Knight of Heaven]

Does that Vanity fair article actually say Galadriel, warrior princess, is hunting down the collaborators who killed her brother?

She is wearing "plastic looking" plate armor. If im not mistaken that is something the elves didnt use at this time?

[Infidel144]

That is a bit weird because there is only person who killed her brother (Finrod) was effectively Sauron. His minions who assisted were long since dead at the end of the first age. If the ideal is that She is concerned that Sauron is about and still able to take fair form that makes a bit more logical sense. Because that what he did. She would in fact be one of the few Nolder left who could not be fooled by him or overwhelmed immediately.

So it does say that? (I can't access the article). It would not make sense to call Sauron a "collborators".

I mean, seriously, the stupid...

yes wearing "plastic looking" plate armor. If im not mistaken that is something the elves didnt use at this time?

I've seen the picture. She does not look like an Elf. Looks more like some sort of take on Eowyn.
And plate armour like that never existed in Middle-earth. (Plate type armour seems to have been limited to helms, greaves, vambraces (and possibly neck gaurds) i.e. more or less incidental pieces, floabw). Mail and or scale type armour seems to have been the rule of day, I can't think of anywhere Tolkien said breastplates.

[PointOfViewGun]

It does not exist. Strange, since I quoted it directly from App. F. Indeed it is in the last main paragraph of Appendix F, just before the notes on Hobbit, Gamgee and Brandywine.
But, hey, if you say it does not exist...
Maybe my all my different editions are faulty.

My edition printed in 1999 doesn't have it. The fact that the quote you provided has little to no online presence despite the subject's popularity tells me that it really does not exist. The appendix is primarily about language anyways. It's odd to have a paragraph there talking about appearance.

[Cyclops]

WTF now you are projecting stuff into it, that isnt there, nor it wasnt meant to say that in any way. If there is people who see orks as black people, then those people have issues.

I didn't say anyone said orcs were black people. The description of the dark skinned people at the battle of the Pelenor fields is a caricature of African appearance common in the early 20th century, "black men like half trolls with white eyes and red tongues".

There is a plain racial hierarchy in middle earth with grey eyes best, then blonde haired people like the Rohirrim, then "swarthy men". This even applies to Hobbits, the taller, slimmer and fairer (in this case referring to colouring) Fallowhides take positions of leadership among the other types of hobbits.

It was a normal part of thought in Tolkien's time and place, these days its revolting. As you say people who see it have problems.

Come on now. Dark Elves not the same thing as African looking people. And you know it.

You stated you had never heard of black dwarves in Norse mythology. The black elves (aka dwarves) make things, just like Durin's folk. You could say they are a substantial part of the literal template for LoTR dwarves, and you'd be right. Other versions of Norse dwarves exist, like Fafnir who turns into a literal dragon, we can be sure (given the events of the Hobbit) Tolkien did not mean these Wagnerian dwarves.

Can we talk about the blue beard? Its literally canon, and I have not heard a single comment. If this issue is not about race but canon, why is this issue not important?

As for them being African looking, you're not seriously suggesting blackface? I mean there are plenty of ways to present a dark skinned character, South Asian or Melanesian could be workable. The argument dWaRvEs WeReN't BlAcK is silly, the acknowledged source material allows it. "tHeY lIvEd UnDeRgRoUnD" and so did the demon of the elder world, you want an albino Balrog too? neither of us want that.

As for what the Tolkien tried to do, that is very well documented, and even by his own words. I didnt said Lord of the rings are a Bible. Even though there is obvious christian themes in it. I said he created a English Mythology. A English Epic. Unless you are saying Rural England and the Shire are inconsequential?! For example.

The Christian themes I think is a furphy. Tolkien's works are based loosely on Norse/Finnish/Celtic mythic traditions, not Semitic (except possibly the dwarves as a parody almost). In any case the religious aspect is deliberately downplayed in favour of ethics and codes of honour, religious ritual is minimal, there are no chapels, temples or priesthoods, with the possible exception of Sauron's false temple in the Atalante, which I say is non canon.

Many parts are based on many different traditions. The Shire is definitely based around the countryside of his youth early 20th century Worcestershire. Rohan has Gothic and other Volkswanderung elements, Gondor is less clear by perhaps Roman and Romance cultures. I agree its a mess, Rohan is Iron Age but there's clockwork, coffee and maybe even steam power (Sandiman's Mill belches smoke) in the Shire.

Be carefully of taking Tolkien's statements about the work entirely at face value. In one of the letters he's upbraided for being too Germanic (he was a Teutophile through and through) and in the 1950's because of Hitler romantic German nationalism and mythology was on the nose. I fell he was forced to make that (clearly erroneous) statement that his work was thoroughly informed by Christian belief, because if he didn't he'd look like a Nazi.

He also in another letter denies Irish mythic influence (and goes so far as to call it "mad" "without sense"), which is plainly silly as there are many elements of Irish mythology in his works. I think as a British Catholic he shared the common anti-Irish sentiment of his class and culture, and this led him to make this denial (in the late 19th-early 20th century the "Celtic Revival" was a somewhat pushy and often politicised movement, and while it played apart in the romantic fantasy of Morris, Dunsany and Tolkien the political associations were anti-English).

I mean there is essays and books about it, its not me saying just because.

https://thehistoryvault.co.uk/tolkie...logy/#comments

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Those are hefty, lengthy and I'm not sure how they support your argument. I have not heard that Tolkien set out to create a British or English or Anglo or whatever mythology, he created several fake languages for fun, and told some stories to his children (including a hotchpotch of influences), and combined the two into a profitable book. Its a novel, not an actual theology/mythology. Its not sacred and some parts are "of their era". Remember Tolkien did not publish the Silmarillion, so in my view that's not canon, its Chris Tolkien's muddle.

Making a change like anxious Aragorn no wanting to be King is a more serious gaffe than the skin colour of a dwarf in some non-canon spinoff. Arguments that people of colour don't exist in LoTR is false, they do as part of a racist hierarchy and worldview which was a commonplace in Tolkien's time but is repugnant now. The rights owners can make changes as the see fit. It may bomb (I hope it does if they make Galadriel a ninja) but the race baiting seems a silly side issue.

Movie industry is a business of course he tried to make money, because this things cost money. But if you know anything about Peter Jackson journey to make Lord of the rings, financial success was far from being guaranteed. Literally no one wanted to make his movies. Much less 3 of them. Which at the time was very very risky.

I'm glad he made them there's a lot to enjoy. There's also mistakes. He made changes in part because the source material could not fly for a modern audience (c. 2000), and we'd make it differently today, in fact they are making it differently today.

That is a bit weird because there is only person who killed her brother (Finrod) was effectively Sauron. His minions who assisted were long since dead at the end of the first age. If the ideal is that She is concerned that Sauron is about and still able to take fair form that makes a bit more logical sense. Because that what he did. She would in fact be one of the few Nolder left who could not be fooled by him or overwhelmed immediately. Making her a warrior is a bit silly like her brother the bulk of JRRs work (published and all the unpublished stuff) shows a a mystic/user of magic etc.

Oh no, it looks they have the pooch well and truly screwed here. Galadriel in armour (in Jackson's version, but I feel he got the spirit right) is her literal nightmare form, which she rejected.

[Infidel144]

My edition printed in 1999 doesn't have it. The fact that the quote you provided has little to no online presence despite the subject's popularity tells me that it really does not exist. The appendix is primarily about language anyways. It's odd to have a paragraph there talking about appearance.

What is the edition?
Little to no so it does have some, like say:
Tolkien Forum: https://www.thetolkienforum.com/thre...the-eyes.5371/
(hmm.. I wonder how cian is doing)
The usenet groups:
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.fan....m/_KtZeDXnXKUJ
cian!
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.arts...m/g9WoOoZUyzEJ
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.fan....m/x6jcWfx0tUEJ
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.arts...m/n0sjZKALagkJ
Conrad, Russ, Oje, Aris, Troels... memories...
Wordpress: https://phuulishfellow.wordpress.com...omment-page-1/
Quora: https://www.quora.com/Why-do-elves-h...t-colored-hair
Entmoot: http://entmoot.com/showthread.php?t=2625
BarrowDowns: http://forum.barrowdowns.com/archive...p/t-13045.html
What ever this place is: https://readli.net/chitat-online/?b=172986&pg=129
Istad which seems to have copied it from the old Fanatics Plaza: http://www.istad.org/imladris/projec...appearance.asp

Or one could always just look at google books: https://www.google.com/books/edition...sec=frontcover

If only Tolkien knew how to write his books...

Edit:
Letter 142:
"The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like 'religion', to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism. However that is very clumsily put, and sounds more self-important than I feel."

If only Tolkien knew what his books were about...

[Cyclops]

PoV you've just been accused of being a Nazi pagan and don't want to get cancelled.

"The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like 'religion', to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism. However that is very clumsily put, and sounds more self-important than I feel."

Yeah me and my homies all write our fundamentally Catholic and religious works with NO REFERENCE TO CATHOLICISM OR RELIGION...and we never ever lie. LoTR is fundamentally based on pagan worldview, with creator who barely interacts with his world, no saviour, no covenant, no sacraments... I can't imagine how anyone believes this frankly desperate bit of misdirection.

BTW the criticism that the dwarf queen doesn't have a beard is cogent. Dwarves are very different to Men and Elves and that's a small but telling element. The female dwarves are hidden and I don't think anything like a Queen is even hinted at in the lore (as opposed to Elves who have several important female leaders, and Men who have the odd publicly important female such as the proverbial Queen Beruthiel). Having a dwarf queen, and one with no beard, is as weird as having a clean shaven six foot "dwarf".