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Thread: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

  1. #501

    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Quote Originally Posted by mishkin View Post
    It seems that you were complaining about something more than the dialogues and the narration here.
    Yes, lore breaking aspects, characterization, inconsistency, dialogue etc...

    I can hate a platform and consume its products (for free in this case). If you think it's a form of hypocrisy, fine.
    I don't recall saying anything about hypocrisy.
    I also have no problem with you calling promotions bribery.
    "It's not exactly like you're going to get paid to watch it. not at all, actually.By the way, it's November, and the fight continues. it is clear that the problem was not the quality of the series for some."
    "It wouldn't seem like a scandal to you if Netflix did something similar."

    Yes, so much of "no problem" that you make idiotic comments and ignorantly pretend to know what I will or will not do.

    Bye.
    I've read that before...

    Edit: Sorry just one question if you don't mind. Are you the one who complained in this thread because an actress showed her cleavage?
    It was mocking criticism of the costuming that was out of place (inconsistent) with what had been shown for the southlanders.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; November 28, 2022 at 03:14 PM. Reason: Disruptive.

  2. #502
    mishkin's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    delete/sorry
    Last edited by mishkin; November 29, 2022 at 02:30 AM.

  3. #503

    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    The show feels kind of strange.

    It is kind of like a documentary on some historical age with spectacular visual effects . . . but has no particular one plot to become attached to.

    I can understand the discrepancies with the lore, in the end the Silmarion is just one unfinished book. But the scope of it is truly grand and hard to fit in a show. I just hope that Amazon Prime will not botch the job altogether.

  4. #504

    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Rankings for streaming shows have Amazon's Rings of power as number 15 in the top 15 original series, and not in the rankings of the other lists.
    https://tvline.com/lists/most-popula...022-originals/

  5. #505
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    That are huge news .RoP will have their competitiion soon enough.
    Copying from Facebook Lord of the Rings page:
    The whole truth about the relationship between the new Lord of the Rings movies and Peter Jackson

    After Amazon, responsible for the recent prequel series, the studio of the legendary film trilogy, Warner, is also returning to the party to make new films for one of the most important fantasy films of all time. Now who will be the Lord of the Rings?

    In February, the media giant Warner Bros. Discovery announced that it would return and warm up the Lord of the Rings cinematic universe in collaboration with the New Line Cinema studio and the Embracer group that owns the film rights. Thanks to the multi-year contract, he comes out with new films - not only to the delight of Tolkien fans, but of course also to the shareholders. After all, the news was timed by the company to announce the last quarter's financial results and their loss of 2.1 billion dollars.

    However, what may spoil the taste of fans is that, according to The Hollywood Reporter, the studio wants to build a huge movie universe.

    Something that can even compete with franchises such as Star Wars or Marvel, where the past years have also been spent building connected film and television universes.

    Where else is the bad taste? At Amazon, of course. The increasingly active entertainment department of the e-commerce titan brought the world's most expensive TV series to date, The Rings of Power, which is also based on Tolkien's world, for no less than one billion dollars.

    After the Game of Thrones prequel series, the surprisingly successful House of Dragons, Amazon can already see Warner as a direct competitor. Yes, but there's Warner's secret weapon - if he deploys it, he can gain a significant advantage in the battle for Middle-earth.
    Now who has what Lord of the Rings rights?

    In the history of the world created by J. R. R. Tolkien, perhaps only its copyright network is more difficult to see. We will not tell you about the licenses of acquisitions, film-serial-video game adaptations from the beginning. But the events of the previous year perfectly exemplify the entanglement and at the same time the boundaries of legal disputes.

    Saul Zaentz Co., which owns the Middle-earth rights (including The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit film rights, video game rights, live event rights, and theme park rights), launched one of the most high-profile rights acquisition deals last year related to the Tolkien world. In February 2022, Zaentz announced be: then he would be happy to part with the property promised to be a Hollywood gold mine for an amount of around 2 billion dollars.

    But aren't the film rights with Warner-New Line Cinema, the duo that filmed The Lord of the Rings trilogy and The Hobbit? Yes and no. Although the studio was able to make six films a success, Zaentz cited the expiration of the licenses. That said, since Warner hasn't been actively involved in adapting new Lord of the Rings films for the big screen, they believe the rights have reverted to their original owners.

    The two companies fought a long litigation battle over the rights, and not for the first time. At the beginning of the 2000s, the legal dispute was over the profits from the original film trilogy, in which a third party, the Tolkien Estate, which manages the rights to the books, entered as a separate lawsuit, and even the director, the multiple Oscar winner Peter Jackson too.

    In order to retain the rights to the characters and stories of The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, Warner even announced an animated movie with the subtitle The War of the Rohirrim as a loophole. This was not accepted by Zaentz during the litigation, and Warner later suspended production on the film.

    A New Hope - Embracer steps in

    The tumultuous relationship between Zaentz and Warner was eventually ended by a change of ownership of the rights. After the announcement in early 2022 (which was carefully planned by Zaentz, since the hype surrounding the arrival of the Amazon series could significantly raise the price tag of the ownership), the news arrived in mid-August: the new owner of Middle-earth Enterprises, which manages the rights to Tolkien's oeuvre, is the Swedish video game and media conglomerate , the Embracer group. The purchase price was not disclosed during the announcement, but according to some industry sources, it may have been around the previously mentioned two billion dollars.

    The launch of the Swedish Embracer came as a huge surprise to the industry. Many were expecting a Hollywood company to lead Middle-earth Enterprises, and even more were perhaps looking towards Amazon. In the days before the presentation of Rings of Power, such a news would have definitively knocked down the supporters of the company giant's studio, Amazon Studios. In addition, it would have offered a huge strategic opportunity to the company of the billionaire Jeff Bezos, who is said to treat The Lord of the Rings as a matter of his heart, so that their billion-dollar series could only be the entry point to more Lord of the Rings content. They would certainly have managed to get significantly more subscribers to their side.

    Amazon, on the other hand, not only missed the jump, but can slowly follow the realization of a nightmare scenario with external eyes. Unlike its legal predecessor (and true to its name, the "embracer"), Embracer entered into a confidential relationship with the new management of Warner, which was slowly transforming itself, as a result of which they announced last week their multi-year cooperation and the arrival of the new Lord of the Rings films.

    Why should Amazon be cold about this news?

    In order to know this, it is important to take a closer look at the rights - and learn what Amazon owns. In 2017, the company giant Bezos bought a small slice of the writer's world from the Tolkien Estate, which owns the rights to the books, from HarperCollins, which publishes the books, and (as a twist of fate) from Warner Bros. This smaller slice represents the Second Age of Tolkien's Middle-earth story. According to the background story related to the world of Lord of the Rings, the era spanning 3,441 years begins with the fall of the dark Morgoth - and ends with the first fall of Sauron.

    The rights concerning Warner, on the other hand, already belong to the period of the Third Age. This period also covers the history of audience favorite characters such as Gandalf, Aragorn and the Hobbits, the events of the War of the One Ring and The Hobbit.

    This already puts Amazon in an unpleasant situation. Tolkien wrote very little about the Second Age, and the scope of the conflicts was clearly secondary compared to the original two stories (The Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit books).

    In the meantime, due to its renewed role as a competitor, the studio has to pay particular attention to which direction and with which elements it directs its prequel series The Rings of Power, for which it previously promised fans a playing time of fifty hours, i.e. roughly five seasons. Amazon would love to blur the line between the two separate franchises with its creative decisions. For example, he asked Howard Shore, who composed the brilliant scores of the original trilogy, for the theme music of the series.
    The question is whether the original plans will be carried out this way

    Another main cause of headaches is receiving rings of power. Amazon Studios, which immediately jumped into the filming of the second season after the debut of the first episodes, has so far made a positive statement about the numbers of the streaming platform. According to Amazon, The Rings of Power is the most watched show, with at least one hundred million viewers and with new subscriber interest surpassing the next four series on their top list combined, it is a clear success. At the same time, the critical and fan consensus did not welcome the story management solutions very well.

    Series creator Patrick McKay and J.D. Payne also admitted that the series really didn't start smoothly, reassuring the fans that they promise a better, bigger second season. However, it is questionable whether this will change the perception of the series. And if not, will they really go through with their five-year, multi-billion dollar plan. Especially if, in the meantime, the shadow of the new competitor is cast on them, whose more successful attempts could dwarf Amazon's actions.

    A franchise above all else

    Aside from the slightly nauseating Disney-Star Wars example, Warner is starting from pole position for the win. As the guardian of the rights to the adaptation of the well-known and beloved Termadkor, as well as the legacy of the original film trilogy known as a critical and box office success, he takes up the gauntlet against Amazon. And it looks like he might have one more hideously important gun fact on his side: Peter Jackson.

    Jackson, who bagged 17 Oscars and then directed the Hobbit trilogy, and his two acclaimed co-writers, Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens, were previously courted by Amazon. However, the new leaders who came to the head of Amazon Studios in the meantime interrupted the negotiation process, and the Jacksons could not see a single script. What's more, according to THR's information, they were especially frustrated that many mistakenly associated the new series with them.

    The paper now understands that Jackson and Walsh are currently in discussions with the studio duo Warner-New Line.

    The signing of the Jacksons would be a huge opportunity for Warner, in fact, thanks to their expertise, The Lord of the Rings became one of the world's biggest critical and commercial successes. along with Titanic, he wrote himself down in film history as an absolute record holder. In addition, the three cinemas worked out quite nicely for the Warner-New Line duo. They ran with a budget of $281 million and grossed $2.99 ​​billion between 2001-2003.
    There will be some head-scratching at Warner, too

    However, Peter Jackson's name is by no means a guarantee of success. The second trilogy of the director-producer, who was initially reluctant to direct the Hobbit films, but then gave his all, was not received with nearly as much enthusiasm by the audience as by the critics. Although the fall was far from the films that debuted between 2012 and 2014, their profitability has already dropped significantly: The Hobbit trilogy brought in $2.93 billion with a budget of roughly $745 million (ignoring ten years of inflation or higher ticket prices for 3D screenings). In addition to the more depressing reviews, the trilogy did not take home a single Oscar statuette.

    Warner faces another problem. Namely, that in contrast to Star Wars, which is extensive but not limited by its background history, or Marvel, which has an extremely large amount of adaptable material, the extreme detail of the Tolkien world is intended to support the two main stories that have already been filmed.

    Any kind of deviation from the basic material threatens with an army of fans foaming at the mouth to defend their preciousness.






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  6. #506
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Interesting but what do they have the rights too? I mean the First age would be good gloomy doomed and brutal and if you really wanted to surprise people finish JRRTs unfished 4th age noir-ish book he started.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

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    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  7. #507

    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    "While Amazon, like other streamers, provides only limited data — and internally, it held information even more closely than usual on the series — sources confirm that The Rings of Power had a 37 percent domestic completion rate (customers who watched the entire series). Overseas, it reached 45 percent. (A 50 percent completion rate would be a solid but not spectacular result, according to insiders)."
    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/bu...ws-1235364913/

  8. #508
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    The Rings of Empowerment was pretty boring yeah. I am not sure how Amazon expects to break even. I thought Bezos was some kind of master businessman or something. You can't explain this.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  9. #509
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
    The Rings of Empowerment was pretty boring yeah. I am not sure how Amazon expects to break even. I thought Bezos was some kind of master businessman or something. You can't explain this.
    I think boring is being generous for the price tag. Its just ridiculous and epically bad in many to most cases.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  10. #510
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    The real question is, who was this even for? All they did was anger the fans who would have eagerly consumed this if done well or accurately. Catering to the lowest common denominator is not a solution. Since the average person doesn't seem to care about Lord of the Rings. They would much rather watch Game of Thrones, or as we have seen in real time they would rather watch House of the Dragon.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  11. #511
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
    The real question is, who was this even for? All they did was anger the fans who would have eagerly consumed this if done well or accurately. Catering to the lowest common denominator is not a solution. Since the average person doesn't seem to care about Lord of the Rings. They would much rather watch Game of Thrones, or as we have seen in real time they would rather watch House of the Dragon.
    Well I can't say obviously even for all the money they a difficult constrained hand given the material they paid for. Seemingly the much better series material was to had in the first age - but I guess that was not an option. They should have bought the rights to the Unfinished tales as well - that would have let them flesh out the second age better.


    But I think they just picked really bad show runners. The decisions to compress time are just baffling and also to make Galadriel a young impetuous hero are as well I mean she is never at risk everyone knows that and well.. I had assumed they do season arcs and than shift in time say by hundreds of years. Sure than Elrond, Galadriel etc could anchor show but each season would be a section of the second age with characters we have tension about since their fates are unknown (or mostly unknown) .
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  12. #512

    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    The decisions to compress time are just baffling and also to make Galadriel a young impetuous hero are as well I mean she is never at risk everyone knows that and well.. I had assumed they do season arcs and than shift in time say by hundreds of years. Sure than Elrond, Galadriel etc could anchor show but each season would be a section of the second age with characters we have tension about since their fates are unknown (or mostly unknown) .
    That would have been a much better way of doing it, and could have shown naturally the envy of mortal Numenoreans for the immortality of the Eldar developing (Death and Deathlessness being a major theme in Tolkien's story).
    Hell, they could have even kept some of the mortal characters playing descendants of themselves.
    But the showrunners would have to be intelligent instead of ignorant lying idiots...
    Last edited by Infidel144; April 12, 2023 at 08:20 AM.

  13. #513
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    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
    The Rings of Empowerment was pretty boring yeah. I am not sure how Amazon expects to break even. I thought Bezos was some kind of master businessman or something. You can't explain this.
    I'll quote myself from a previous post

    A while ago, someone on the financial side of the television industry reminded me that Amazon isn’t a television company. It’s a mail order business that dabbles in TV to boost its cred. The Rings of Power seems to be a perfect case in point, as if Amazon dumped a billion dollars into it for the headlines, then ignored a lot of the details. The frustrating thing is that there is clearly so much potential here. I just don’t know if I have it in me to watch any more to see if it is ever realised.
    Case closed
    I don't think more analysis needs to be done: they could spend 1 billion, they did so.. quality of the result was never a real concern to them, since it wasn't their main goal, to begin with.
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  14. #514

    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flinn View Post
    I'll quote myself from a previous post
    I don't think more analysis needs to be done: they could spend 1 billion, they did so.. quality of the result was never a real concern to them, since it wasn't their main goal, to begin with.
    They didn't spend 1 billion dollars though. That figure was a mere speculation before the production was over. The real number was later announced to be less than half of them which puts at the same par as the movies with inflation taken into account.
    The Armenian Issue

  15. #515
    Flinn's Avatar His Dudeness of TWC
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    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Good for them
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  16. #516

    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Speaking of ignorant lying idiots:

    "Amazon Studios Head Jennifer Salke Breaks Down the $700 Million ‘Rings of Power’ Gamble and Plan for MGM Integration"
    https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/jen...gm-1235392108/
    Per the piece it was 250 for the rights and 450 for production.

    The WSJ had reported 715 million:
    ‘The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power,’ which premieres Sept. 2, has cost the streamer roughly $715 million
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-...ve-11661482048
    (Salke seems to have been acknowledging earlier 465 million for the first season e.g.: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/bu...es-1234950963/ )

    And this from New Zealand:
    "Amazon plans to spend about $650 million on season one of the show meaning it would be eligible for a rebate of over $160m.Minister for Economic Development and Tourism Stuart Nash told Morning Report the deal secured multi-year benefits to New Zealand and the subsidy was well worth it.
    "This is fantastic, it really is," Nash said.
    However he couldn't say exactly how much money would be spent, citing confidentiality, but did confirm it is over $100 million.
    "But what I can tell you is Amazon is going to spend about $650 million in season one alone," he said."
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political...-rings-filming

    Basically something like 55-60 million per episode.

  17. #517
    Lord Oda Nobunaga's Avatar 大信皇帝
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    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flinn View Post
    I'll quote myself from a previous post



    I don't think more analysis needs to be done: they could spend 1 billion, they did so.. quality of the result was never a real concern to them, since it wasn't their main goal, to begin with.
    Well yeah but the question still is why did they even do it and why did they choose to do it so poorly? Your assessment being true, the fact that a company which got its money from selling books and shipping cheap trinkets, supposedly they are geniuses that made billions of dollars, why were they so stupid that they didn't realize that they didn't know how to run these TV shows? As Dirty Harry once said "A man's gotta know his limitations". Bezos and gang can't be that intelligent if they didn't even understand that basic principle.

    "Famous general without peer in any age, most superior in valor and inspired by the Way of Heaven; since the provinces are now subject to your will it is certain that you will increasingly mount in victory." - Ōgimachi-tennō

  18. #518
    Flinn's Avatar His Dudeness of TWC
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    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
    Well yeah but the question still is why did they even do it and why did they choose to do it so poorly? Your assessment being true, the fact that a company which got its money from selling books and shipping cheap trinkets, supposedly they are geniuses that made billions of dollars, why were they so stupid that they didn't realize that they didn't know how to run these TV shows? As Dirty Harry once said "A man's gotta know his limitations". Bezos and gang can't be that intelligent if they didn't even understand that basic principle.
    Well now, I can tell you what I believe, which ofc isn't necessarily the actual truth.. first, it's about rising cred, as said above.. then it's about showing muscles, because not giving a about wasting hundreds of millions or even billions on a mediocre product, it's a sign of extreme wealth (as stupid as this sounds.. billionaires have a different mind that us normal fellas) and finally, it's about being arrogant beyond logic, that makes you believe that you can get everything right, no matter what.

    Anyways, in the end I don't think the economic loss will be that serious, probably they are not really even losing money out of this, because (and I have witnessed that myself) most of people know nothing about the Silmarillion and don't give a and has watched the show in any case.. quite sure some have bought the Prime account just to watch it. Sure the constant stream of negative reviews from LotR fans has hindered the success of the first season, but if they insist long enough, eventually we nerds will give up and it will become just another mediocre show whit a large mediocre audience.

    What is really sad here is the wasted opportunity, and that's what really drives us LotR fan crazy, IMO.
    Under the patronage of Finlander, patron of Lugotorix & Lifthrasir & joerock22 & Socrates1984 & Kilo11 & Vladyvid & Dick Cheney & phazer & Jake Armitage & webba 84 of the Imperial House of Hader

  19. #519
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Oda Nobunaga View Post
    Well yeah but the question still is why did they even do it and why did they choose to do it so poorly? Your assessment being true, the fact that a company which got its money from selling books and shipping cheap trinkets, supposedly they are geniuses that made billions of dollars, why were they so stupid that they didn't realize that they didn't know how to run these TV shows? As Dirty Harry once said "A man's gotta know his limitations". Bezos and gang can't be that intelligent if they didn't even understand that basic principle.
    The thing is you assume your view is correct. Second that you can understand you are making a poor product aforetime. On the first take Clue. Its I think justifiably consider a cult classic but it failed at the time and with lots of reviews that are a mirror of you take.

    As I said above maybe they should not have been made - given the limed access to material they got . That said they could I agree have done better but who knows. Again you seem to asserting this some new thing. As if the studio did not butcher the Magnificent Ambersons behind Well's back and did in a way that could not be undone (destroying the cuts). Why do Jaws sequels exist? Or Jurassic world? The thing is a lot production is just mediocre at best.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  20. #520

    Default Re: The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

    I feel the same especially with the Return of the King movie. I read the book and watched the films when I was relatively young and looking back I can see with how much simplicity I viewed the movie compared to the book. The directorial decisions Jackson took at the time did not occur to me at the time but today they are extremely blasphemous. The things he cut out and altered changes a lot. It could have been so much better.
    The Armenian Issue

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