The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

[Sir Adrian]

You could have Al Pacino play Elrond and it still wouldn't be better. When the lines are crap there is only so much the actor can do.

[mishkin]

To each his own. I won't even say she's a bad actress, she's obviously good at her craft, but she killed that snow troll with just a little bit too much ease given how it was beating the ever loving crap out of every other elf warrior around her. Her motives are reasonable, but her engagement with other characters is clunky and a bit cringe, especially with Elrond. Also, the actor who plays him is not very good, or perhaps it is the terrible dialogue they have given him and the pompous attitude they've ascribed to his character.

Also, honestly, you didn't see anything cringey? How about the hunters with the giant elk horns on their backs played by terrible actors? The hobbits were also kind of lame, a wee bit too whimsical and that says a lot given how whimsical the Shire was in the LOTR films. It's somehow more whimsical but without the charm of Jackson's trilogy.

time to demystify Peter Jackson trilogy? (full of embarrassing moments and performances).

In any case, as you say, it's great that some (it seems that many) people enjoy it, the only thing I don't understand* is the people who watch the series and don't enjoy it at all (or only enjoy criticizing it).

*well actually i have several ideas about why some people do that, but that would be for another thread.

[PointOfViewGun]

Jackson's trilogy was full of charm mostly because most people were introduced into Tolkien's works for the first time with his films and nothing of that level was done before regardless of any genre. We also didn't have a great chunk of internet roaming around back then for people to talk about the movies. Neither Facebook or YouTube was around. Imagine that. Most people made their first comment once they watched the movies and that's a different dynamic compared to what we have today. Especially, we didn't have such a culture of whining that we have today.

[Heathen Hammer]

The toxic attitude of blaming products poor reception on "whining" is probably the reason why the show is flopping. Imagine if they spent same efforts on the show that they blew on marketing and damage control.

[PointOfViewGun]

The toxic attitude of blaming products poor reception on "whining" is probably the reason why the show is flopping. Imagine if they spent same efforts on the show that they blew on marketing and damage control.

Except the series is not flopping and instead broke the record for most premiere watches on Amazon Prime with 25 million viewers, about 15 million viewers ahead of HBO's House of Dragon.

[Roma_Victrix]

Except the series is not flopping and instead broke the record for most premiere watches on Amazon Prime with 25 million viewers, about 15 million viewers ahead of HBO's House of Dragon.

Impressive viewership indeed, although I'd say that's a shame, since HBO's House of the Dragon is clearly better. We can probably thank D&D for the poorer performance given how much they ruined the last two seasons of Game of Thrones, leaving a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

time to demystify Peter Jackson trilogy? (full of embarrassing moments and performances).

The movies were not without their flaws, but I was captivated by each movie from the very beginning scenes, whereas this Amazon show and billionaire Jeff Bezos vanity project just falls flat in nearly every scene. I seriously have trouble mustering nice things to say about it aside from the obviously amazing production values. Maybe the pacing of character development is okay? I can't say for sure, because I couldn't make it through one episode before dying of boredom and watching thrash metal music videos instead.

In any case, as you say, it's great that some (it seems that many) people enjoy it, the only thing I don't understand* is the people who watch the series and don't enjoy it at all (or only enjoy criticizing it).

There's a perpetual obsession over the show by some Tolkien super fans, it seems, but I'd rather steer my criticism of Rings of Power into productive arguments that people should watch House of the Dragon instead. I'm telling you, it's good! Certainly a hell of a lot better than that Wheel of Time show (also Amazon, meh) that flamed out already. Hell, I'd encourage people to watch Cobra Kai before Rings of Power.

*well actually i have several ideas about why some people do that, but that would be for another thread.

It's the race thing, isn't it?

I could care less, and actors should simply be chosen on their merits, although I will say that they should at least make it consistent enough that members of the same immediate family should look the same. House of the Dragon does that well with the aristocratic Velaryon family being black African looking, I suppose due to the mixed Summer Islander lineage, while the Targaryens look like albino white Northern European people as usual.

Tolkien described the Elves as rather Celtic or Germanic looking (if not basing their culture on their respective ones), but Middle Earth at least had what we would consider People of Color and non-European looking folks. That includes the Haradrim who looked Middle Eastern, the people of Harondor who were mixed Haradrim (West Asian & North African) and Gondorian/Numenorean (i.e. Southern European like the Romans), the very dark skinned southernmost people of Far Harad who are probably akin to Sub-Saharan Africans, and of course the eastern nomads of Rhun and Khand who are clearly based on Turkic and Mongolic peoples of Central Asia.

[mishkin]

It's the race thing, isn't it?

no, when I talked about "the people who watch the series and don't enjoy it at all (or only enjoy criticizing it)" I was thinking about people who have a need to feel superior to a "mass of ignorant people". Nice excusatio, tho

I share your hatred for Jeff Bezos, I have never given any money out of my pocket to his company (amazon, amazon prime, whatever). I understand that you may want to boycott all their products.

What is very difficult for me to understand is that the great critics of this series, at one time or another, always end up alluding to the skin color of the actors. If seeing a black elf is among someones reasons for not being able to enjoy this series, I think they have to work on it a bit.

[conon394]

I think and having only watched the first episode. The show runners bought themselves a problem and not the right story. By that I mean consider the LOTR out of thousands of years of world building some mostly finished and some still up in the air and some after the LOTR - JRRT picked basically a couple of months to write about. A decisive point where demonstrably the 'good guys' could likely have chosen a couple safe options and can kicking or Gandalf's fool's errand leap of faith... which is very much that and really not the option a betting man would pick - yep the fate of the world rests squarely on the shoulders of Samwise bloody Gamgee (although his full name gives the game away).

In any case the second age is basically a long slog of history some three and half thousand years and nothing in it be it the making of the rings the rise of Sauron, His intro bit where is still potential charming, or the rise and fall of the Numenoreans happens in a in less then centuries.

Realistically given a Bezos blank check the rights to buy were those to the the first age and the stories of Beran and Luthien and the stories of the House of Hador. Dark, various strong females, good guys killing good guys... But... they were chicken.... There ain't no hobbits in the first age (not in the second either - anyway) and this way we can have Galadreal and Elrond as HS rivals or something because the people will recognize them. Really if thay had real guts they would have bought the rights to JRRT's unfinished 4th age story that starts off as almost a noir mystery political thriller... unfinished and thus opened ended but has all the name hooks and places everyone knows from the PJ movies.

[Heathen Hammer]

"A lot of people are viewing the show therefore its good".
I'm pretty sure that viewing it doesn't mean you liked it, it just means you viewed it. Some people saw and liked it, some people saw it and hated it, some people remained indifferent. Viewership isn't a valid measurement of reception, especially given how its free to anyone subscribed to Prime, which is millions of people.

[Cyclops]

...Really if thay had real guts they would have bought the rights to JRRT's unfinished 4th age story that starts off as almost a noir mystery political thriller... unfinished and thus opened ended but has all the name hooks and places everyone knows from the PJ movies.

It starts with tree cutting, yeah? A chance for "Who killed the Entwives?", plot twist, it was Tom Bombadil.

You make a fair point. Plenty of great stories hinted at in the Appendices and sketchy enough for wiggle room within the lore. Put the Silmarillion in the dustbin where Tolkien left it, very botched story telling though.

I guess Balrog + Galadriel + Elrond + Sauron + ring origin story was a natural combo but as you say the time scale is enormous 600 years from the forging of the ring to the appearance of the Nazgul. Numenor saves Eriador and does very little for centuries. Hard to write a conclusion unless it ends with Sauron being driven back east c. 1700 or whatever it was.

[Jadli]

Ok, the 3rd episode was pretty lit. Numenor, orcs,... breathtaking... the orc design is definitely the best so far, better than in the movies I would say (definitely better than the Hobbit )... the actions scenes a lot more gritty and bloody... lot of lore...and the direction of the story begins to reveal itself, the plot starts to progress finally...

[PointOfViewGun]

"A lot of people are viewing the show therefore its good".
I'm pretty sure that viewing it doesn't mean you liked it, it just means you viewed it. Some people saw and liked it, some people saw it and hated it, some people remained indifferent. Viewership isn't a valid measurement of reception, especially given how its free to anyone subscribed to Prime, which is millions of people.

Except we're not talking about whether people like a show or not. We're talking about your claim that the show is flopping which is about viewership. Nice try on trying to shift the spotlight.

[mishkin]

Hi guys, I just wanted to ask you to use spoilers if you're going to talk about the latest episodes. (not that there have been any problems so far).

[Heathen Hammer]

Except we're not talking about whether people like a show or not. We're talking about your claim that the show is flopping which is about viewership. Nice try on trying to shift the spotlight.

There is 0 reason to remove use ratings if the show isn't flopping.

[PointOfViewGun]

There is 0 reason to remove use ratings if the show isn't flopping.

Irrelevant.

[mishkin]

There is 0 reason to remove user ratings if the show isn't flopping.

right now nobody pays attention to user ratings of television shows considered "woke" by the... antisocial justice warriors (term coined by me right now, you're welcome). Don't you think that web pages may be worried about it?

Nice new episode, maybe a bit boring. Surprises not very surprising, failures that are welcomed.

[Jadli]

There is 0 reason to remove use ratings if the show isn't flopping.

They didnt remove 0 ratings afaik, as you can see the show still has very bad ratings..
But they are just showing only "validated" user reviews (I asume that means validated accounts that did lot of reviews before)

[PointOfViewGun]

What I especially like about the intro, and I'm not sure if the connection I see is the one intended, is that its a nod to creation of the Arda in the Silmarillion. The intro uses sound waves to create shapes which is exactly how Eru had Valar create Arda through their music.

[Heathen Hammer]

right now nobody pays attention to user ratings of television shows considered "woke" by the... antisocial justice warriors (term coined by me right now, you're welcome). Don't you think that web pages may be worried about it?

Worried about demographic you imagined? Doubt it.
If user reviews are removed, it means the show sucks. There is no other reason to remove user reviews otherwise.

[mishkin]

What I especially like about the intro, and I'm not sure if the connection I see is the one intended, is that its a nod to creation of the Arda in the Silmarillion. The intro uses sound waves to create shapes which is exactly how Eru had Valar create Arda through their music.

wow. 3 points for the show

Worried about demographic you imagined? Doubt it.
If user reviews are removed, it means the show sucks. There is no other reason to remove user reviews otherwise.

If? are you saying you don't know if some reviews have been removed? what are you talking about then?

I imagine that comments that violate the terms of service of the site are deleted. But again, what are you talking about and, do you have any proof of what you are talking about?