The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

Thank you people.Before my inner eye i see now a LoTR ala Twilight, where the lovers make sheep eye's over each other for eternity but no sex or kiss.

Hopefully they have someone, who is able to write a proper romance plot, in what Tolkien was notorious bad. His strength was more the bromance.

[z3n]

Hah! The "Prancing Pony" also sounds like a place where men train BDSM chariot ponygirl slaves or something. I hear that their most frequent customer is a Hobbit chap named Dildo Gaggins.



That's fair. To be clear, if there are no sex scenes at all, I could care less and am totally stoked about the show. If there are a few sex scenes and some naked Elf asses dancing about in a handful of scenes, I could also care less and it would not even occur to me to bring that up as a point of criticism. Having some limited nudity is enormously superficial, especially if it is in conjunction with well known romantic relationships that occur in the novels (albeit this is the Second Age, so obviously different human characters and a few Elves that did not survive into the Third Age).



What? Maybe you could argue this for the Elven female characters Arwen and Galadriel, albeit a flimsy argument, but Eowyn is not a sideshow character. She literally kills the Witch King of Angmar at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields. As far as early to mid-20th century authors go, Tolkien stands close to the very top in terms of creating strong leading female characters, within an ensemble cast of mostly male ones, of course.



That's one way to do it and that's fine. Again, I see no problem with a bit of nudity in LOTR on an Amazon Prime show or alternatively if this were to be aired on HBO instead. I guess nobody has a reason to make gripes or complaints on that front now that sex scenes are out of the picture.

I don't really get misogynistic vibes from a guy who married a girl who was 3 years older than him (they were in love around 16 years and 19 years respectively) or in his writing. Interestingly she was engaged to marry another and thought he had forgotten about her at first, then she married him after he proposed. It seems very hard for females or males to write realistic characters from the opposing sex. The idealized romance novels (generally written by females) for example have questionable male protagonists at best.


Also the tale of Beren and Luthien has Luthien as the far more powerful of the two, the two characters were based on himself and his wife. So the idealization likely stems from the fact some characters were based on real people in his life, I don't think that's a horrible thing.



About nudity as per Tolkien's express wishes, we'll agree to disagree I suppose.

[Knight of Heaven]

They are trying to make it game thronesy (among other things)... its a mistake, it simply isn't what Lord of the rings is. Its a different animal altogether.

Not a fan of nudity, and sex scenes being added to it to make it "edgy". Its not what lord of the rings is.

But im sure going to enjoy the memes making fun of this. I already do.

Im dont have hopes that this is going to a be a good show, given who the writers are.

[Jadli]

Finally we get some proper info on the show (after the little mysterious previews before) in a new article. And there should be a teaser/trailer this Sunday!

So far looking good, though kind of expected they would move the events in the lore around to fit it into one 5-season show (as otherwise it would taken several hundreds years.)... Though I think it would have been very interesting to not move things around that much, and make each season kind of its own story, while there would still be some recurring characters (the elves...)...

Some interesting casting for sure, enough for some people to get very upset I suppose

Thoughts

[Halie Satanus]

Need to see some live action trailers. Will be looking out for it on Sunday.

[Knight of Heaven]

Some interesting casting for sure, enough for some people to get very upset I suppose

The Don lemon wood elf, in a forbidden relationship with a single mother white elf chick kinda gives it away. Its like they never left the 60s.

The "warrior" Galadriel in full body armor commander of the northern armies... they turned Galadriel into something she never was, or never do. She never meant to be very active in these events on this era either...

Then you have Elrond looking incredible feminine, and being described as a political activist. lol


Then of course the diversity hire Dwarven princess with weird eyes... which i can not help to notice to lacking in a good beard. That is sad.

Prince Durin IV, of Khazad-dûm seem to be the only one that looks the part, and it feels like it belongs in Lord of the rings.
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood...ies-first-look

I read the whole vanity fair article... this doesnt look or feels like Lord of the rings at all.

Also there is rumors, there is further rights of lord of the rings might be for sale. I suspect Amazon might buy the whole thing.

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/l...le-1235176036/

[Cyclops]

The Lord of the Rings it ain't. I'd say only the books published in Tolkien's lifetime are.

If you're worried about the lore Peter Jackson already screwed that pooch extensively. Uncertain Aragorn, Elven scimitars, chubby twee Haldir, stupid Denethor, wooden Eomer, decades too young Theoden, no caricature black African "like half trolls" no Asian caricature half orcs, and a gay activist playing a character the author described as like an angel. This is not the first time either. Chris Tolkien raided the rubbish bin to cobble together his botched Silmarilien, and then decided to ride his father's corpse around the yard again with the pointless History of Middle Earth.

Tolkien's sexist racist original material is still worthy of respect as an artefact of loving work, of its time and reflecting its author's great strengths and flaws. Criticising work that cheaply parasitises the lore (and much of the lore used must be from CT's unloreful works) for having black dwarves seems disingenuous. I don't think Dwarves skin colour is mentioned anywhere, and as for the cry "tHeY lIvEd UnDeRgRoUnD!" so you want albino dwarves I suppose? I seem to recall Balin son of Fundin is described as having a blue beard (yet he was whitewashed as a cis character in the Hobbit films! ZOMG). Hobbits are mentioned as having long clever brown fingers, curly brown hair and deep fruity laughs...

...so arguably...

[Knight of Heaven]

If you're worried about the lore Peter Jackson already screwed that pooch extensively.

Yes but i feel lots of the changes he made was in an effort to adapt the story to the big screen. Despite the changes, it seems obvious to me Peter jackson didnt try to bring his own baggage onto it. But to tell Tolkien story.


What amazon is doing is something else entirely.

Tolkien's sexist racist original material is still worthy of respect as an artefact of loving work......

Come on now.... Tolkien tried to create a British Anglo Mythology, hence the influence of Scandinavian mythology, German and Celtic. I dont recall black dwarfs in norse mythology.

Its a mistake, and a complete deconstruction to try reflect the modern western world on his story, and this universe. And as usual it will backfire badly on the IP.

[irontaino]

Basically the entire discourse surrounding this series right now:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[conon394]

Tolkien's sexist racist original material...

Not really seeing the sexism or the racism unless go looking for it.

[Knight of Heaven]

Basically the entire discourse surrounding this series right now:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Well thats because it is. And it isnt just white nerds saying it. Know plenty of black nerds who say the same.

Anyhow they are doing it with lots of stuff. The wheel of time being a good example. Last one was Snow white. After they did it to little mermaid. And i recall that Ann Boleyn show on channel 5, etc. There is plenty of examples. To deny there is a social political agenda behind it is ridiculous. Specially when the show runners themselves admit it.

[mishkin]

Well thats because it is. And it isnt just white nerds saying it. Know plenty of black nerds who say the same.

Anyhow they are doing it with lots of stuff. The wheel of time being a good example. Last one was Snow white. After they did it to little mermaid. And i recall that Ann Boleyn show on channel 5, etc. There is plenty of examples. To deny there is a social political agenda behind it is ridiculous. Specially when the show runners themselves admit it.

What have they done to snow white oh christ I prefer not to know.

Edit: ### I am crying. bastards!

[irontaino]

Know plenty of black nerds who say the same.

[ggggtotalwarrior]

I mean it is weird to have people randomly be of entirely different ethnicities than the majority but still be from the same geographic area. I don't think that is anything but objective fact. If you're gonna change ethnicities in a fantasy world, at least make it be mostly native to one area and not just pure tokenism that doesn't really make sense within the established world's ethnic mix.

[PointOfViewGun]

Tolkien talks little of skin color. He simply describes elves as the fairest of all, yet, that doesn't really mean white within the context he uses. He pays a lot more attention to hair color. Yet, none of you would make the same fuss over that. I wonder why...

[mishkin]

where are all the people who say "you have to stop talking about races" when you need them?

[Jurand of Cracow]

Tolkien talks little of skin color. He simply describes elves as the fairest of all, yet, that doesn't really mean white within the context he uses. He pays a lot more attention to hair color. Yet, none of you would make the same fuss over that. I wonder why...

hey, and the color of the eyes! At school this was the divisive factor! Eyes! Blue excluding brown! And vice versa! Why not to make detention camps for the green-eyed? Who cares about skin, I firmy believe the Noldors were blue eyed!

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

Pfff.. those elvish inbred longnecks. ^^

[Infidel144]

Pfff.. those elvish inbred longnecks. ^^

That is an ugly picture, from the MERP Lorien module by ICE (which they screwed up, btw). Not something from Tolkien.

=====

Tolkien had some fairly choice words for the way his characters were pictured, one of which was provided by Christopher Tolkien, who honored his fathers legacy spending decades preparing and publishing his fathers work, giving actual Tolkien fans a deeper insight into the legendarium:

Long afterwards my father would write, in a wrathful comment on
a 'pretty' or 'ladylike' pictorial rendering of Legolas:
He was tall as a young tree, lithe, immensely strong, able swiftly to
draw a great war-bow and shoot down a Nazgul, endowed with the
tremendous vitality of Elvish bodies, so hard and resistant to hurt that
he went only in light shoes over rock or through snow, the most tireless
of all the Fellowship.

BoLT 2

I was from early days grieved by the poverty of my own beloved country: it had no stories of its own (bound up with its tongue and soil), not of the quality that I sought, and found (as an ingredient) in legends of other lands. There was Greek, and Celtic, and Romance, Germanic, Scandinavian, and Finnish (which greatly affected me); but nothing English, save impoverished chap-book stuff.

Letter 131

[Cyclops]

Yes but i feel lots of the changes he made was in an effort to adapt the story to the big screen. Despite the changes, it seems obvious to me Peter jackson didnt try to bring his own baggage onto it. But to tell Tolkien story.

I think he tried to make money. Occasionally he made a decent artistic decision (eg in the Hobbit the dwarves actually have a plan, unlike in the book) but there's heaps of unnecessary changes. The removal of Glorfindel and giving some of his role to Arwen were clumsy attempts to address the sexism of the original.

What amazon is doing is something else entirely.

I disagree, they are trying to make money. If its a bunch of white guys speaking in Chris Tolkien's garbage semi old timey waffle it'll bomb.

Come on now.... Tolkien tried to create a British Anglo Mythology, hence the influence of Scandinavian mythology, German and Celtic. I dont recall black dwarfs in norse mythology.

Who told you this? Google Svartalfar. They are alternately considered dwarves and elves and they are black.

I think Tolkien set out to write down the bedtime stories he told to his kids, based on his homebrew language set. He patched together the often very lovely ideas that were in his heart and sold it to a paying audience. This isn't the Bible. He didn't set out to create a British Anglo something something.

Edit: IIRC the first language he toyed with was Gothic or other Germanic related (no influence on Britain AFAIK) as the pre-Adunaic tongue of men, but this remains unpublished. The most famous creations are the Elvish tongues, one of which is chiefly inspired by Finnish/ the other is Welsh mostly with dashes of Norse etc.

Its a mistake, and a complete deconstruction to try reflect the modern western world on his story, and this universe. And as usual it will backfire badly on the IP.

Yes Hollywood usually butchers stories (good or bad). However that doesn't stop them selling. The entire MCU is a bundle of shite and the punters lap it up. Twilight was a massive success, financially.

Not really seeing the sexism or the racism unless go looking for it.

He may not have seen it because that was his perfect world.

I do see the problem with the brown people being mentally weak slaves of evil, the black people being "like half trolls" and the asian looking people being halforcs. I doubt it would fly at the box office. The letters (which should never have been published, but here we are) explicitly state Dwarves are meant to be like Jews: selfish materialistic and not particularly brave (contrasting with the elves and Numenorean men). Its pretty bigoted, as you would expect from a university educated Briton c.1900.

Tolkien talks little of skin color. He simply describes elves as the fairest of all, yet, that doesn't really mean white within the context he uses. He pays a lot more attention to hair colour. Yet, none of you would make the same fuss over that. I wonder why...

IIRC Tolkien specifies only one elf lineage (Vanyar and a few Vanyar descended Noldo) as having golden hair, the rest were dark haired [edit:wrong, there were also one or more blondes among the Sindar, a few silver haired elves (Cirdan or someone), and also some reds among the descendants of Finwe and his Vanyar wife].

There's no mention of pointy ears, Glorfindel and other elves are identified as such by the light in their eyes.