The Rings of Power. Lord of the Rings. TV Show.

[mishkin]

@PointOfViewGun,

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

a very rushed narrative in my opinion. a character with the highest responsibilities radically changes policy in what seems like five minutes. (with massive support from a population that previously shared her isolation/anti-elven politics).

[Roma_Victrix]

On a slightly off topic subject, I've always been annoyed by Tolkien's use of seemingly magic fireworks created by Gandalf the Grey for spectacles in the Shire and the amusement of Hobbits. It would appear that Gandalf not only invented gunpowder but also rocket propulsion, and nobody seeks to exploit these things for purposes of warfare? Tolkien never really explained how he did it either. There is a hypothesis that he did so using the Narya ring or even by way of sorcery using his wizard staff. Otherwise it seems Gandalf invented a combustible substance either similar to gunpowder or just the basic recipe for gunpowder.

Back on the main subject of the show, a friend of mine said to give the show another chance since the narrative starts to improve with episode 3. Do others have that opinion? Were the first two episodes simply dull boring duds and the third one is a charm? I disliked the first episode so strongly that I would like to see a second opinion other than that of my friend's before committing any time to another watch. I suppose I have HBO's House of the Dragon to watch in the meantime, now that I've already burned through Cobra Kai season 5.

[Flinn]

On a slightly off topic subject, I've always been annoyed by Tolkien's use of seemingly magic fireworks created by Gandalf the Grey for spectacles in the Shire and the amusement of Hobbits. It would appear that Gandalf not only invented gunpowder but also rocket propulsion, and nobody seeks to exploit these things for purposes of warfare? Tolkien never really explained how he did it either. There is a hypothesis that he did so using the Narya ring or even by way of sorcery using his wizard staff. Otherwise it seems Gandalf invented a combustible substance either similar to gunpowder or just the basic recipe for gunpowder.

I vaguely remember it having to do with Gandalf's control of "good fire", but it might well be my schizofrenia. Anyways, Saruman has been using explosives as well in the Helm's Deep siege.

Back on the main subject of the show, a friend of mine said to give the show another chance since the narrative starts to improve with episode 3. Do others have that opinion? Were the first two episodes simply dull boring duds and the third one is a charm? I disliked the first episode so strongly that I would like to see a second opinion other than that of my friend's before committing any time to another watch. I suppose I have HBO's House of the Dragon to watch in the meantime, now that I've already burned through Cobra Kai season 5.

IF one has to argue "if the show is getting better" after a certain point, there's definitely something wrong with that show. As for me I'm just waiting for a few more episodes to come out before watching it, usually (unless is something I was very eager to see) I wait for the end of season 1 before watching a new show.. atl I know what to expect

[Infidel144]

Back on the main subject of the show, a friend of mine said to give the show another chance since the narrative starts to improve with episode 3. Do others have that opinion? Were the first two episodes simply dull boring duds and the third one is a charm? I disliked the first episode so strongly that I would like to see a second opinion other than that of my friend's before committing any time to another watch.

This reviewer at Forbes notes:

"I’ve come to a sad realization: The creators of Amazon’s The Lord Of The Rings: The Rings Of Power know how to create spectacle, but they don’t know how to tell a good story.

There it is, scrawled in blood on the wall. The writers and showrunners responsible for this show could have won me over with good fan-fiction. They could have tossed Tolkien’s lore onto a bonfire and I’d have been perfectly happy if they’d simply crafted an enjoyable story with characters I care about.

Unfortunately, The Rings Of Power is written so poorly it defies even my worst fears. Oh yes, I was awed and impressed by the opening two episodes just like many others. But my how quickly a badly written TV series can wear out its welcome once the shimmer fades."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...h=3c38a73518a0

[Flinn]

This reviewer at Forbes notes:

"I’ve come to a sad realization: The creators of Amazon’s The Lord Of The Rings: The Rings Of Power know how to create spectacle, but they don’t know how to tell a good story.

There it is, scrawled in blood on the wall. The writers and showrunners responsible for this show could have won me over with good fan-fiction. They could have tossed Tolkien’s lore onto a bonfire and I’d have been perfectly happy if they’d simply crafted an enjoyable story with characters I care about.

Unfortunately, The Rings Of Power is written so poorly it defies even my worst fears. Oh yes, I was awed and impressed by the opening two episodes just like many others. But my how quickly a badly written TV series can wear out its welcome once the shimmer fades."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...h=3c38a73518a0

Good article, there's quite a lot to look at there, thanks for sharing

One thing I don't agree with (both in the article and in general) is assuming that "younger" versions of the elves might be harsher or more hot blooded that their later counterparts, IMO that's just BS: I don't think that's the case at all for Elves, I don't remember Tolkien ever mentioning anything like that to happen and I would say that Elves being more akin to Valar, are more likely to be born with their character fully developed. And to be honest, at that point it would have made more sense for Galadriel to be less hot blooded and less involved in opposing Sauron (as indeed is in the legendarium). Poor scripting being poor scripting.

[PointOfViewGun]

@PointOfViewGun,

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

a very rushed narrative in my opinion. a character with the highest responsibilities radically changes policy in what seems like five minutes. (with massive support from a population that previously shared her isolation/anti-elven politics).

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The change in policy comes after a series of really bad omens; arrival of Galadriel, her visions and the shedding of petals. The Queen is actually playing a ruse on everyone and this can seen from her distance to her husband while trying to act tough against elves but hiding her father's situation as well as her connection to elves or elf friends... The crowd's support was a result of snowball rolling effect thanks to Elendil's sons. However, we have to note that while Galadriel was involved with that it was still good Numenorian men against evil Sauron. It wasn't necessarily framed as a move to help elves. Many likely saw it as Numenorians establishing their supremacy and dominion over other men in Beleriand.

[Infidel144]

A demonstration of how poor the writing is...:

The Queen is actually playing a ruse on everyone and this can seen from her distance to her husband while

Chancellor Herr*Pharazon is not the husband of *Miriel.

The crowd's support was a result of snowball rolling effect thanks to Elendil's sons.

Only one son of *Elendil is there. His other son has not been shown yet. The other two characters are *Isildur's friends.

Many likely saw it as Numenorians establishing their supremacy and dominion over other men in Beleriand.

*Beleriand (while mentioned as the place where Arondir was born) is not in the show.

...so poor that even apologists are confused.

[Roma_Victrix]

I vaguely remember it having to do with Gandalf's control of "good fire", but it might well be my schizofrenia. Anyways, Saruman has been using explosives as well in the Helm's Deep siege.

Good comparison! The gunpowder Saruman used seems to have been a well kept military secret of Isengard, whereas Gandalf uses it right out in the open as entertainment in the form of fireworks and pyrotechnics displays held in a remote rural northwestern corner of Middle Earth. It's a strange discrepancy.

IF one has to argue "if the show is getting better" after a certain point, there's definitely something wrong with that show. As for me I'm just waiting for a few more episodes to come out before watching it, usually (unless is something I was very eager to see) I wait for the end of season 1 before watching a new show.. atl I know what to expect

Good policy!

This reviewer at Forbes notes:

"I’ve come to a sad realization: The creators of Amazon’s The Lord Of The Rings: The Rings Of Power know how to create spectacle, but they don’t know how to tell a good story.

There it is, scrawled in blood on the wall. The writers and showrunners responsible for this show could have won me over with good fan-fiction. They could have tossed Tolkien’s lore onto a bonfire and I’d have been perfectly happy if they’d simply crafted an enjoyable story with characters I care about.

Unfortunately, The Rings Of Power is written so poorly it defies even my worst fears. Oh yes, I was awed and impressed by the opening two episodes just like many others. But my how quickly a badly written TV series can wear out its welcome once the shimmer fades."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...h=3c38a73518a0

Thanks for sharing. Seems like a growing consensus for that matter.

[Knight of Heaven]

https://premiere.news/demand-for-hou...f-power-chart/

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...011323324.html

"
While demand for HBO’s “House of the Dragon” has risen this week, demand for Amazon Prime Video’s “The Rings of Power” fell by 13%, according to Parrot Analytics‘ data, which takes into account consumer research, streaming, downloads and social media, among other engagement.
Another week like this and the “Game of Thrones” prequel will have twice the demand of “The Rings of Power.” If the trajectories of these two shows remain on this path, it’s looking like HBO will have won the much-anticipated faceoff without there being much of a fight at all."

[PointOfViewGun]

https://premiere.news/demand-for-hou...f-power-chart/

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...011323324.html

"
While demand for HBO’s “House of the Dragon” has risen this week, demand for Amazon Prime Video’s “The Rings of Power” fell by 13%, according to Parrot Analytics‘ data, which takes into account consumer research, streaming, downloads and social media, among other engagement.
Another week like this and the “Game of Thrones” prequel will have twice the demand of “The Rings of Power.” If the trajectories of these two shows remain on this path, it’s looking like HBO will have won the much-anticipated faceoff without there being much of a fight at all."

Parrot Analytics have produced quite questionable results in the past and carries a lot of criticism. You can check their own website based on different countries. That page showing content demand numbers doesn't seem to support those articles. However, since Parrot Analytics is largely based on social media presence, if Rings of Power presence is falling its likely due to the stigma created around the show by some as if its a bad thing to enjoy the show.

[Infidel144]

https://premiere.news/demand-for-hou...f-power-chart/

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...011323324.html

"
While demand for HBO’s “House of the Dragon” has risen this week, demand for Amazon Prime Video’s “The Rings of Power” fell by 13%, according to Parrot Analytics‘ data, which takes into account consumer research, streaming, downloads and social media, among other engagement.
Another week like this and the “Game of Thrones” prequel will have twice the demand of “The Rings of Power.” If the trajectories of these two shows remain on this path, it’s looking like HBO will have won the much-anticipated faceoff without there being much of a fight at all."

Yeah, Amazon has been very quiet about viewer numbers since it self proclaimed 25 million sampled the show the first weekend (or whatever).

[PointOfViewGun]

Sword Expert Reacts To The Rings of Power (So Far) | Fights, Weapons, Armour

[Flinn]

I had a stroke at "they did a really nice job with the armors" @ 0:39



but the analysis is pretty honest, they obviously didn't do a great job

[conon394]

Good comparison! The gunpowder Saruman used seems to have been a well kept military secret of Isengard, whereas Gandalf uses it right out in the open as entertainment in the form of fireworks and pyrotechnics displays held in a remote rural northwestern corner of Middle Earth. It's a strange discrepancy.

Not sure gunpowder is the right word. They both of them use pyrotechnics but I get the impression there are rather magic based

[Infidel144]

So, Arondir, who ditched his weapons in the tunnels in episode 2, gets captured and stripped to his shift in ep 3, is released in ep. 4 and has his weapons back, but still in his skivvies, now in ep. 5 has his wooden breastplate back...
(and well bathed, clean and fresh Bronwyn is still, clean, fresh and well bathed, and showing off her cleavage, for some reason)

While 6 *Elves are going to carry a large stone table from *Lindon across *Eriador to *Khazad-dum. On foot...

[mishkin]

it is not very unreasonable to think that on his way back to the fortress he has found abandoned armor and weapons in the armory. Nor is there any reason to assume that there is no water in the fortress, or that Bronwyn should worry about some middle earth Taliban stoning her for showing her cleavage.

The desire to criticize even the smallest detail, when the show has obvious flaws, seems to me bordering on fanatism.

I will see the next chapter, unless there is a great improvement I will stop watching it. a lot of unresolved intrigue and many absurd scenes

[Infidel144]

Arondir abandoned his weaponry in the tunnels. He had his weapons after being released heading to the tower. Hence no weapons from the abandoned tower. He had not been there. Rather convenient that the abandoned tower was stripped bare of everything but one breastplate (which looks to be the same one the *Orcs stripped him of).
Bronwyn, unlike all the other grimy southerners bathes regularly, and is the only one to show off her cleavage. All the time.

[mishkin]

and is the only one to show off her cleavage. All the time.

I'm sorry it bothers you so much.

[conon394]

The desire to criticize even the smallest detail, when the show has obvious flaws, seems to me bordering on fanatism.

So far as best I can put it with no nit picks the problem is the compression of the history and making main charters out people we know the fate of already. Broadly call it using existing lore trap or historical fiction trap or in this case the prequel trap and not avoiding it.

On the first two can if you are good deftly retell the lore or weave through the well know history. CS Forester does so with Hornblower. His main charter is the perfect uber competent British officer but his actions while all actually believable always happen at the margins of the history. Read in the characters chronological order you will know he has the plot armor to not die but not much else and nothing at all about the fate of other characters. Compare starting young midshipmen Nelson would be boring in that the whole arc of his life would not surprising. Shakespeare can't kill Henry the V, but he can give us Falstaff and his companions and make events that have real unknowns in them. Euripides can't change the how Troy fell and what happened next but he can write freely a The Trojan women into a blank space of the lore.

I may or may not have already said in the thread. But why make Galadriel into impetuous head strong teenager? We know she was cautions, had her own kingdom and older than the elves ordering her about (in the show). If you want a headstrong, impetuous, female Noldor make one up. One in the service of Galadriel charged with trying to find S and maybe others since Galadriel knows many creatures escaped or hid aside from S. You want to make it personal make her an exile who was out of the house Finrod and thus as eager for vengeance on Sauron as her mistress.

I mean that JRRT did since he certainly made up Gildor Inglorion and Glorfindel (I know, I know he worked himself around to the ideal of the latter being a reincarnated version of the first age guy, but realistically it seems at the time he needed two Noldor lords and he wrote them in).

The show authors could have done the same and with Gildor as a model you have a exile, one who scares the Nazgul even just in party mode and can pick a hobbit of the dark and does not need a torch (even without as Infidel144 noted what I was I was thinking of ealier the magic lamps from the UT... ) he and his friends seem to able to bind moon and start light to their needs . Would have been cool CGI for the intro ice sequence

In any case we would not know her fate so risks would be real. Even bitterness at her from other elves who just see the Noldor going off on yet another vengeance quest and dragging them down as well. And maybe a bitter retort from the Exile it was colder on the Grinding Ice.

Same really goes for the made up elf secret state police in the southern lands... why not use the existing Numenorean drift to Imperialism? Make some characters leading that and the odd nice fellows.

Than I dunno go for some seasons as chapters with really big time jumps?

[Pinarius]

Another article that heavily criticizes the writing of this show:

You can see at a glance why ROP is reportedly costing Amazon $US1bn to make.

The sets are astonishing, the special effects are seamless and the costumes are incredible.

Sadly, the story is not. And more and more are noticing.

It’s like being served rancid cat food on a beautiful antique plate.

In years to come, I believe budding fantasy writers will be invited to watch the show because it is a case study in how to use every lazy fantasy trope imaginable, from the ever-burning torches to leaving at “first light” to ramshackle rafts that can survive impossible storms.

It managed to be both pretentious and boring.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/en...4c989d2780ebbf