They Sold Their Souls

[fkizz]

It’s not true that the Bible didn’t exist until the Council of Nicea. If it were, there would be no Old Testament, which Jesus referenced repeatedly for dogmatic purposes. In fact that’s not even true for the New Testament. The latter was canonized at the Councils of Hippo and Carthage, some 70 years after Nicea. In any case, the latter pertained to dogmatic consensus on Christ’s divinity, not the historicity of Scripture.

You're grasping at straws and playing semantics here. There was obviously material for the Bible that existed Millenia before Christ, so by your logic we could pretend Bible existed thousands of years before Jesus.

By Bible I mean having both Clergy Consensus and Canonization of what material would make up the Holy Book to unite the religion - and if Holy Trinity should be encouraged or Arianism, to include Book of Enoch or not, what goes or not to the Apocrypha, etc.

I mean technically you could say Constantine didn't institute Christianity and that it was Theodosius, but would be just bureocratically/theorically true, and confuse oneself for no reason.

[Lord Thesaurian]

so by your logic we could pretend Bible existed thousands of years before Jesus.

Correct. That’s the part Christians believe prophesied of Jesus’ arrival and explains why he came. Aka the Bible.

[basics]

For the simple reason that when have stenographic record or recording or what he said, but only second hand accounts of what other said he said and in many cases massively forced versions of trying to fit often assumed prophecy yes I have doubts.

conon394,

In a court of Law it takes in some cases only one witness but in others there must be two which follows God ordinance regarding witnessing. We accept that just to put someone away perhaps for life yet the writings of so many witnesses is not enough to verify the things Jesus said and did, that I do not understand and yet I do. Unbelievers have had their eyes closed and bound to evil so that only God Himself can open them, perhaps the reason for doubting.

[Akar]

so that only God Himself can open them

And yet, he doesn't.

Because he can't.

Because he isn't real.

[razerbelkin]

I think categorically excluding the existence of God is not a smart thing to do
I had a question for you Akar, maybe you find the opportunity to reply to it? Click

[Akar]

I will categorically exclude the existence of unicorns until someone shows me sufficiently convincing evidence that they exist.

[conon394]

I will categorically exclude the existence of unicorns until someone shows me sufficiently convincing evidence that they exist.

What you never watched My Little Pony Friendship is Magic - It's a documentary man do not disrespect Twilight Sparkle (or the angst ridden Tempest Shadow)

[Akar]

Wait, Tempest Shadow? Really? Man, I wish I got paid to come up with pony names.

Emerald Convalescence

Sapphire Sunbeam

Blackmist Shadowhoof

Stomphoof Bigsaddle

Eddy Redmane

Darkmoon Shadow

Black Nightmane

Opal Ambivalence

You can have those for free.

[ggggtotalwarrior]

Is informing everyone here that 90% of the planet is going to go to hell for not sharing your exact beliefs (which are inexplicably the exact correct interpretation of reality), not the definition of cynical?

[basics]

Is informing everyone here that 90% of the planet is going to go to hell for not sharing your exact beliefs (which are inexplicably the exact correct interpretation of reality), not the definition of cynical?

ggggtotalwarrior,

My exact beliefs come from a better source than your patron, why? Because my Patron is far greater than you and him could ever imagine. One day you'll actually get to meet Him.

[Akar]

I'm Greg's patron and I'll have you know that If you strike me down now I will become far more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

[fkizz]

Correct. That’s the part Christians believe prophesied of Jesus’ arrival and explains why he came. Aka the Bible.

You are making a false equivalence, one thing is to have a building fully built up and functional to its ten stores, housing people, another is to have the building still at its foundations. And then pretending it's the same thing.

For the the Bible to exist as "the Book" it took a consensus between the Bishops that took centuries and was instigated and demanded by the Roman Imperial House, most notably Constantine.

Also for the book to be called to Bible, it has to have The New Testament.

[Lord Thesaurian]

The claim was there was no Biblical consensus on creation because the Bible didn’t exist in Jesus’ time. That isn’t true, because scriptures relevant to the creation story did exist at the time and Jesus referenced Genesis several times (unless your position is Biblical scholars made them up later).

5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.
6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Here he directly references the creation of Adam and Eve, and uses this as a causal basis for explaining present reality.

49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:
50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.

Here Jesus refers to Abel, the son of Adam and Eve, as a historical individual: the first martyr.

26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

Here Jesus references Noah’s flood and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah as historical examples of what life will be like when he returns.

[irontaino]

Is informing everyone here that 90% of the planet is going to go to hell for not sharing your exact beliefs (which are inexplicably the exact correct interpretation of reality), not the definition of cynical?

Everybody thinks their brand of salvation is the right/only one.

[basics]

Everybody thinks their brand of salvation is the right/only one.

irontaino,

That's so very true that everybody does think along those lines and so the question remains which one is true? My experience convinces me that the Way of Jesus Christ is the true one.

[irontaino]

irontaino,

That's so very true that everybody does think along those lines and so the question remains which one is true? My experience convinces me that the Way of Jesus Christ is the true one.

And a devout Muslim will likely tell you theirs is right based on their experience. It's most likely all bunk anyways.

[ggggtotalwarrior]

I wish I could find a better screen cap of this and not a 2010-tier meme but this old Daily Show quote represents what I’m dealing with every time I read a basics post on this subject

[basics]

ggggtotalwarrior,

If the Bible is the word of God and Jesus authenticated that it was then every word in it must be true. Why even after being saved of some 39 years now there are still parts in it that I cannot grasp but what convinces me to believe it is that in all these things and overall, God is at the centre of everything in it. Where God is truth reigns. The golden rule about reading the Bible is context and flow, not just taking verses or scraps of verses as a weapon against what is said, rather is the whole context in flow with what else is written. So, it doesn't matter who the person is, rather is that person born again of the Spirit of God, filled with the Holy Spirit, then if not they are not going to see or understans properly what is written.

[conon394]

The claim was there was no Biblical consensus on creation because the Bible didn’t exist in Jesus’ time. That isn’t true, because scriptures relevant to the creation story did exist at the time and Jesus referenced Genesis several times (unless your position is Biblical scholars made them up later).

Here he directly references the creation of Adam and Eve, and uses this as a causal basis for explaining present reality.

Here Jesus refers to Abel, the son of Adam and Eve, as a historical individual: the first martyr.

Here Jesus references Noah’s flood and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah as historical examples of what life will be like when he returns.

They did and other lost or now ignored. Jesus may have referenced them than again we have only the claims of others to that effect. Also I not sure what you are getting at? An average Athenian might or might not be literate (in a comparable or maybe more literate society) but could probably quote Homer, Hesiod (other lost works of the heroic cycle) and Athenian drama and comedy and Pindar or Sappho. It would not necessary make them avid book collector like Euripides. Nor can be certain how much the authors of the works that tell what Jesus cited fixed them.

[razerbelkin]

This one is just 1 minute long