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Thread: Axioms Of Dominion: Make Rome Rome Again: Democracies, Republics, Senates, Magistrates, And Comitias(New Design Blog Post)

  1. #41
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Axioms Of Dominion: A Fantasy DIP Strategy Game

    This is rather complicated and complex, my friend. It will need a good tutorial and an intuitive help tool that tells you what you need to know about keywords when you hover and where to find more about it. You clearly don't envision this as a casual game where someone could play 2-3 hours, leave it for a couple of days and play again during the weekend without hiccups, finishing the map he started earlier.
    Which brings me to this question: How long do you think an average game would take to "complete"? With complete, I mean the player accomplishing a lot of main goals and have a feeling of accomplishment enough to be proud about and ready to start a new game, not necessarily finish the game.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
    _______________________________________________________
    Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.
    Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
    Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).

  2. #42

    Default Re: Axioms Of Dominion: A Fantasy DIP Strategy Game

    It is going to be pretty freeform. I guess it depends on the player. So maybe one player will shatter or conquer one of the super large super empires and then have a little fun as the big man and then move on. Although ideally managing a giant empire will be fun for a while.

    I guess the "average" game would take 50-200 hours? Depends on what role the player wants to play. You should be able to play a few thousand hours in the same game with meaningful variation in gameplay, especially for people roleplaying several generations. But that will probably only be for the hardcore strategy game bitter vets.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Axioms Of Dominion: A Fantasy DIP Strategy Game

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    This is rather complicated and complex, my friend. It will need a good tutorial and an intuitive help tool that tells you what you need to know about keywords when you hover and where to find more about it. You clearly don't envision this as a casual game where someone could play 2-3 hours, leave it for a couple of days and play again during the weekend without hiccups, finishing the map he started earlier.
    Which brings me to this question: How long do you think an average game would take to "complete"? With complete, I mean the player accomplishing a lot of main goals and have a feeling of accomplishment enough to be proud about and ready to start a new game, not necessarily finish the game.
    I went through some of my older notes to refresh myself a bit and write this substack post that more thoroughly, I hope, answers your questions:

    https://axiomsofdominion.substack.co...mbitions?sd=pf

    It also discusses some core design goals of the game and details how the unique roleplaying scaffolding factors into both things.

  4. #44

    Default Re: Axioms Of Dominion: A Fantasy DIP Strategy Game

    https://axiomsofdominion.substack.co...=twitter&sd=pf

    Some general logistical refresh but primarily a discussion about how morale should and hopefully does work in Axioms. You start all the way back with Ideology, Religion, Laws, and Population interrelations and then add on Equipment and Supplies and officer/ranker relations. How you structure your society directly impacts your military and then you can have various military structural choices that impact things like unit cohesion and morale. And unlike random button mashing modifier trash games there are tradeoffs in how you operate your society and military.

    I suspect some people coming from "grand strategy" games might complain but I really wanted to give social structure a meaningful impact on militaries and not just mash a button for bonus morale because you are France or Prussia even though the only thing tying you to those historical nations is a text string in the UI and a little flag icon.

    Why did the Greeks use heavy hoplite armies with limited cavalry and light troops? Why did steppe tribes use horse archers? Why did France have knights? Why did the English have longbows? Why did longbows allow the English to defend effectively but not aid them in offensive maneuvers? How did the Prussians create effective conscript armies beyond just drilling a lot?

    No strategy game really answers this. They just define the special units or the "cavalry percentage cap" a specific way or plock down an abstract modifier.

  5. #45

    Default Re: Axioms Of Dominion: A Fantasy DIP Strategy Game

    https://axiomsofdominion.substack.co...-raiding?sd=pf

    This post details the basic systems and mechanics for raiding/banditry/piracy and how and why you'd go raiding. Loot, slaves, glory, enemy unrest, etc.

  6. #46
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Axioms Of Dominion: A Fantasy DIP Strategy Game

    I find the approach of practically sabotage enemies with raids and piracy intriguing, especially if it can lead to them declaring war on you, which I assume has a greater chance to get your allies and vassals to commit in your "defense".
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
    _______________________________________________________
    Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.
    Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
    Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).

  7. #47

    Default Re: Axioms Of Dominion: A Fantasy DIP Strategy Game

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    I find the approach of practically sabotage enemies with raids and piracy intriguing, especially if it can lead to them declaring war on you, which I assume has a greater chance to get your allies and vassals to commit in your "defense".
    Depending on a variety of factors like plausible deniability, how much allies and same culture leaders like you, same for liege, personality stuff like Honor, Ideology of various kinds, and so forth yeah.

    This is part of my effort for Diplomacy and Intrigue to be both awesome, useful, and integrate smoothly, and deeply, with the other game systems.

    Historically you also have examples of stuff like the Cossacks where they'd raid across borders and cause incidents.

    So this also ties into the "promise/commitment" system, which is somewhat similar to the promise/demand system in Shadow Empire but more detailed and well integrated. You can promise to clean up bandits or pirates that base themselves in your land/waters, and then you can either do it or not do it. Which impacts your relations. A lot of situations where you can refuse some neighbor the right to go into your lands while of course bandits/pirates don't care about the laws, and then you can stonewall about doing anything.

    Then when the other nation breaks the borders anyways you can use intrigue, diplomacy, and the propaganda system to legitimize you invading them. And you can propagandize/intrigue their populations by spreading the idea that their lord is weak and can't protect them, and get them on your side for conquering the land and then claim *they* were the ones letting criminals run rampant. Other characters will believe or disbelieve either side based on their personal intel, how much they like or trust one side or the other, whether they are the same religion or race/nation, etc.

    Now the AI will probably not be geniuses at some of the more complex interactions but they'll be able to engage in some level of multi-step strategy. Certainly more than a Paradox or Firaxis or Amplitude AI.

  8. #48

    Default Re: Axioms Of Dominion: A Fantasy DIP Strategy Game

    https://open.substack.com/pub/axioms...utm_medium=web

    This is a new post about how the resource and logistics system of Axioms helps to provide an actually distinct gameplay experience for tribal, pastoral, and nomadic societies in game. Spend more time comparing to Civ 6 than anything else but a little to Civ 3. Both games really drop the ball IMO on the flavor/experience side by having little if any meaningful gameplay difference between these kinds of groups and feudal or theocratic societies. Just some buildings with modifiers and some religion/culture modifiers like extra cavalry capacity or w/e.

  9. #49

    Default Re: Axioms Of Dominion: A Fantasy DIP Strategy Game

    https://axiomsofdominion.substack.co...s-curias?sd=pf

    What if Rome felt like Rome? Consuls, Senators, Comitia Tributas, And Republics.

    Governments should not be Firaxis/Paradox style static modifiers but should have actual mechanics and systems and they should make you feel like you had to deal with the same things as Rome or Greece or the HRE historically.

  10. #50
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Axioms Of Dominion: A Fantasy DIP Strategy Game

    Quote Originally Posted by MoLAoS View Post
    https://axiomsofdominion.substack.co...s-curias?sd=pf

    What if Rome felt like Rome? Consuls, Senators, Comitia Tributas, And Republics.

    Governments should not be Firaxis/Paradox style static modifiers but should have actual mechanics and systems and they should make you feel like you had to deal with the same things as Rome or Greece or the HRE historically.
    Will transition from one form of government to another be smooth? Or it would be "dramatic shifts" only?
    What I mean is that the Roman Empire of 50 AD was not similar in function or labels or offices or function with the Roman Empire in 400 AD. Etc.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
    _______________________________________________________
    Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.
    Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
    Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).

  11. #51

    Default Re: Axioms Of Dominion: A Fantasy DIP Strategy Game

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Will transition from one form of government to another be smooth? Or it would be "dramatic shifts" only?
    What I mean is that the Roman Empire of 50 AD was not similar in function or labels or offices or function with the Roman Empire in 400 AD. Etc.
    Depends on circumstances, so much like history. You can have Roman style slow slides but also revolutions.

  12. #52

    Default Re: Axioms Of Dominion: Make Rome Rome Again: Democracies, Republics, Senates, Magistrates, And Comitias(New Design Blog Post)

    https://open.substack.com/pub/axioms...utm_medium=web

    What is culture, why is it important, and how can we make it concrete and meaningful in a strategy or simulation game?

  13. #53
    Dismounted Feudal Knight's Avatar 🦀\_(ツ)_/🦀
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    Default Re: Axioms Of Dominion: Make Rome Rome Again: Democracies, Republics, Senates, Magistrates, And Comitias(New Design Blog Post)

    I appreciate you approaching the topic of culture in strategy games, the vapidity has nibbled at me from time to time and it's interesting to think about. In fact that's something I'd like to see signal boosted more on TWC. That could be a repost of the article from you (or if you'd like, me w/attribution if you don't want to join the group) in the blogs section, or perhaps a full content article publication of course linking back to you. If you go for that you'd want to send a message to a content hex such as Alwyn.

  14. #54

    Default Re: Axioms Of Dominion: Make Rome Rome Again: Democracies, Republics, Senates, Magistrates, And Comitias(New Design Blog Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dismounted Feudal Knight View Post
    I appreciate you approaching the topic of culture in strategy games, the vapidity has nibbled at me from time to time and it's interesting to think about. In fact that's something I'd like to see signal boosted more on TWC. That could be a repost of the article from you (or if you'd like, me w/attribution if you don't want to join the group) in the blogs section, or perhaps a full content article publication of course linking back to you. If you go for that you'd want to send a message to a content hex such as Alwyn.
    If you want to discuss this stuff I'm certainly down for that. Even putting aside the specifics of how Axioms handles it. I imagine there are probably other ways to approach making religion and culture actually meaningful. Some people might not want to do the food/goods and citybuilder esque production chain stuff. Some people might prefer a purely Population focused model rather than Characters. And so on. I'd love to see someone else give a very detailed take on the limitations of existing strategy games as far as making factions/nations feel distinct through societal differences. There's another post on the Axioms blog about making "Assemblies" a meaningful and interesting part of a strategy game, and the general blandness of "government types" in Firaxis or Paradox or Creative Assembly games. Part of my long term effort to allow a historical mod with distinct Greek and Roman government styles. To me there's always been so much unused possibility space in strategy games and it has always made me sad.

    Amusingly from my perspective Rome: Total War 1 did semi-meaningful characters, with stats and skills and marriages, years before CK2 did it. Although I guess Crusader Kings 1 came out a few months earlier in North America? I never played CK1, though.

    If you want to write something and link anything I've written feel free.

  15. #55

    Default Re: Axioms Of Dominion: Make Rome Rome Again: Democracies, Republics, Senates, Magistrates, And Comitias(New Design Blog Post)

    For people interest in the culture type stuff, you could also start keeping track of Historia Realis: Rome which is a historial Rome game which focuses on the politics of Rome.

    Dev just put out a new DD today on Steam:
    https://steamcommunity.com/games/256...83543168093676

  16. #56

    Default Re: Axioms Of Dominion: Make Rome Rome Again: Democracies, Republics, Senates, Magistrates, And Comitias(New Design Blog Post)

    https://www.cambridge.org/core/journ...3A15D1E497198F

    This article discusses exactly the sort of social component interaction that Axioms tries to replicate and represent. The distinct behavior, strengths, and goals of the Carthagian elite vs the Roman elite, and the response of the public to the elite.

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