Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

[Kyriakos]

Eh, Peresvet can you tone it down with the insults? They don't help with anything :/ Let's not forget that no poster in the thread is going to decide what will happen.

[Peresvet]

I don't see any insults in my posts. just exposure of fake Putin propaganda by Alastor that putin is supported by the majority. Maniac putin killed children and other civilians in Ukraine and only minority of my people, russians , support him.

[Alastor]

I don't see any insults in my posts. just exposure of fake Putin propaganda by Alastor that putin is supported by the majority. Maniac putin killed children and other civilians in Ukraine and only minority of my people, russians , support him.

All you have is anecdotal evidence and the claims of the opposition. The most rabid type of opposition. You have repeatedly undermined your own argument and not only called me names, but all Russians who voted for Putin. Old, stupid etc. You purport to understand democracy but you fail to comprehend that the old and stupid get a vote too. And it seems they get to carry that vote. Then you make hysterical claims, emotional claims and you keep them coming one after the other. Evil Putin this and evil Putin that. You are CLEARLY extremely biased, that you can't comprehend that bias and try to at least check it, utterly discredits you as a source for any kind of info on this subject.

Understand that and improve, or keep inhabiting in your delusions. The right choice is obvious, but I suppose you have already made the wrong one.

[Peresvet]

More than half of Russians do not support Putin and his war.

More than half of Russians support the idea of ​​starting peace negotiations with Ukraine, a Levada Center poll conducted in June showed. 58% of respondents expressed support for peace negotiations, which was the highest figure on this issue over the past six months.


“The majority of respondents believe that Russia is more interested in the negotiations. Two-thirds of those surveyed continue to place responsibility for what is happening on the United States and NATO; this conviction has grown over the year. Half allow the conflict to escalate into a direct clash between Russia and NATO,” notes Levada Center.


Opinions on the need for peace negotiations are most often expressed by Russians under the age of 24 (66%), rural residents (65%), women (64%) and those who barely have enough to eat (64%); 75% of respondents do not approve of the activities Vladimir Putin as president, and 77% of respondents believe that the Russian Federation is moving along the wrong path. This opinion is expressed by respondents who receive information mainly from Youtube channels.

https://www.moscowtimes.ru/2024/07/0...rainoi-a136006

[Ludicus]

It’s a hellish oincidence. The American elections are scheduled to be held on November 5^th, and Zelensky announces a peace conference for November. For the first time, he said that Russia should attend the peace summit. It looks like Zelensky’s advisors have been sleeping on the job, allowing him to make this announcement shortly after Trump almost miraculously escaped death.

[Kyriakos]

If Trump is reelected, Ukraine will do well to at least not collapse in the meantime - they look set to lose a very sizable land corridor to Crimea at the very least (let's hope Putin doesn't get even greedier and decides to just keep virtually everything they now control).

[Ludicus]

If Trump is reelected, Ukraine will do well to at least not collapse in the meantime - they look set to lose a very sizable land corridor to Crimea at the very least (let's hope Putin doesn't get even greedier and decides to just keep virtually everything they now control).

I agree with you.There is no doubt that November is the right time for the peace negotiations that Zelensky now desires. I do not rule out the possibility that he has already prepared two substantially different plans to present, depending on who is elected President of the US at that time. And, of course, deep down hoping that Our Lady of Fatima will appear again promising the fall, this time not of communism, but of Putin. Because, unless a miracle happens, Putin will continue to be the Russian President next November.
In fact, on October 4, 2022, Zelensky issued a decree that effectively excludes negotiations with Putin. Zelensky's decree came into effect on the day of its publication. Later, he added: "We are ready for a dialogue with Russia, but with a different Russian president."

[Alastor]

Because, unless a miracle happens, Putin will continue to be the Russian President next November.

Well Zelensky is certainly doing more than just praying for that miracle. As Budanov recently admitted the Ukrainians have been trying to assassinate Putin, albeit without success so far (obviously).
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/07/13/7465507/

Let's keep that in mind, next time the mainstream media start blaming Putin for plotting assassinations against the saintly Ukrainian leadership.

[Mithradates]

Putin is the supreme commander-in-chief of the Russian Armed Forces, so he is a lawful military target. I dont see the problem here.

[Alastor]

Putin is the supreme commander-in-chief of the Russian Armed Forces, so he is a lawful military target. I dont see the problem here.

As long as you think the same for Zelensky.

[Mithradates]

As long as you think the same for Zelensky.

In a war, yes, he would be a lawful military target.
Now, in an illegal "Special Military Operation" Im not so sure. I am kind of convinced that anything Russia is doing right now is illegal.

[Alastor]

In a war, yes, he would be a lawful military target.
Now, in an illegal "Special Military Operation" Im not so sure. I am kind of convinced that anything Russia is doing right now is illegal.

So Putin is a lawful military target, but Zelensky... is not. Ok, gotcha.

[PointOfViewGun]

Yeah, this is a non-issue and a quite senseless thing to accuse media over. They will report it when such a plot is revealed. Someone's triggered because they don't celebrate plots to kill Zelensky?

[Mithradates]

So Putin is a lawful military target, but Zelensky... is not. Ok, gotcha.

Just like if there is a shootout during a bank robbery the guard can claim self defense but the robber can not.

[Alastor]

Just like if there is a shootout during a bank robbery the guard can claim self defense but the robber can not.

That's right. A bank robbery and a war are totally the same thing, covered by the same type of law. Also the defender in a war can never commit war crimes as well, only the attacker, at least if that attacker is Russia and not some civilized country. Any other simplifications you want to go with?

Sorry man, but your bias is more than evident. If Putin is a lawful military target, then so is Zelensky, anything short of that and you simply don't have much of a leg left to stand on.

[fkizz]

That's right. A bank robbery and a war are totally the same thing, covered by the same type of law. Also the defender in a war can never commit war crimes as well, only the attacker, at least if that attacker is Russia and not some civilized country. Any other simplifications you want to go with? Are you one of those fools that like to throw around the rape analogy as well?

Sorry man, but your bias is more than evident. If Putin is a lawful military target, then so is Zelensky, anything short of that and you simply don't have much of a leg left to stand on.

The punchline was more the concept that Putin choose Special Military Operation (still), which lawful wise isn't still technically war, so by Putin's own terms, ironically doesn't make Zelensky a lawful legitimate target, and this legalistic outcome is Putin himself doing, not the West.
While by Zelensky terms (War), both are, but by Putin's terms, Zelensky isn't and Putin is.

Regardless it's about the irony, the type of lawful/unlawful decision in this case is Putin's insistence rather than the West.
Albeit this is mostly playing with words than boots on the ground.

[Kyriakos]

Russia doesn't need to assassinate Zelensky.
I don't agree with leader assassinations in the first place. They are known to historically happen (including in ww2).

[Mithradates]

That's right. A bank robbery and a war are totally the same thing,

For Russia, this is not a war, remember? This is a "Special Military Operation" You will be sent to jail in Russia if you call it a war.
So yeah, its like a bank robbery, or rather a country-wide home invasion where the invaders are stealing your washing machines and kidnapping your children.

The punchline was more the concept that Putin choose Special Military Operation (still), which lawful wise isn't still technically war, so by Putin's own terms, ironically doesn't make Zelensky a lawful legitimate target, and this legalistic outcome is Putin himself doing, not the West.
While by Zelensky terms (War), both are, but by Putin's terms, Zelensky isn't and Putin is.

Regardless it's about the irony, the type of lawful/unlawful decision in this case is Putin's insistence rather than the West.
Albeit this is mostly playing with words than boots on the ground.

Exactly.

[Alastor]

The punchline was more the concept that Putin choose Special Military Operation (still), which lawful wise isn't still technically war, so by Putin's own terms, ironically doesn't make Zelensky a lawful legitimate target, and this legalistic outcome is Putin himself doing, not the West.
While by Zelensky terms (War), both are, but by Putin's terms, Zelensky isn't and Putin is.

Regardless it's about the irony, the type of lawful/unlawful decision in this case is Putin's insistence rather than the West.
Albeit this is mostly playing with words than boots on the ground.

This is such a rubbish and petty argument. The law of war covers "armed conflicts", under customary international law you don't need to formally declare an armed conflict to be a war for it to be subject to the rules of war, and this special military operation is one such armed conflict. Let's not forget that the US for example hasn't formally declared war in decades and yet fought several armed conflicts during that time. Or were those also not covered under the law of war?

So Putin took a note and didn't formally declare war, get over it. If he is a legitimate military target, so is Zelensky. Though as Kyriakos said Russia doesn't need to assassinate Zelensky which is really why he's still alive, considering he's nowhere near as well protected as Putin. It's well known that Putin has offered assurances that he won't target Zelensky 1-2 years ago. Maybe after this was revealed by Budanov, he'd like to reconsider.

For Russia, this is not a war, remember? This is a "Special Military Operation" You will be sent to jail in Russia if you call it a war.
So yeah, its like a bank robbery, or rather a country-wide home invasion where the invaders are stealing your washing machines and kidnapping your children.

Your double standards are obvious. If you can't see them I can't help you.

[Coughdrop addict]

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukra...-putin-1925714

A group of Russian soldiers who volunteered to fight in Ukraine have complained about their commanders in a video appeal to President Vladimir Putin.
Since the start of Moscow's invasion of Ukraine, there have been numerous reports of low Russian troop morale in which video messages to the president have criticized a lack of training, equipment and the actions of their superiors.
The latest appeal shared on X, formerly Twitter, by Ukrainian internal affairs adviser Anton Gerashchenko shows a group of seven soldiers he said were from the 5th Company of the 3rd Battalion of Russia's 7th Guards Motor Rifle Regiment.

An unnamed serviceman in the middle of the front row addressed the camera, and described how he and his comrades had resorted to a direct plea to the Russian president because they had found themselves "in a difficult situation."
He said they had voluntarily signed a contract with Russia's Defense Ministry on May 11 and were told they would be on the second and third lines of the front.
But he said that after initial training, "we realized we had been deceived" and that after the first assault, "we realized something was going wrong," with wounded soldiers being left to lie on the front line for several days.
While his group evacuated the casualties, promises by the company commander that he and his comrades would eventually get provisions, food, water and rest in camps away from the front line were not kept.

"We go out on various assaults on various tasks assigned to us by people we have never seen," he said. "They are leading us to our slaughter," he added, noting that only 25 troops were left out of the company's original 110 men.
"Every day, our guys return injured," he said. "The best case scenario is if they come back injured." Pointing to his comrades, he said that "every person here now is happy to be out of this hell, away from the scum that gives us such orders."
"I fear for my life," he said, as he described how when carrying out tasks "our own artillery and mortars hit us."
"Why is this attitude towards us? We voluntarily signed these contracts to eradicate this fascism but in the end, fascism is among us and is trying to eradicate us by any means necessary," he added, referring to one of the Kremlin's justifications for the invasion, which was to "denazify" Ukraine.
Newsweek has contacted the Russian Defense Ministry for comment about the unverified and undated video in which no location was given.
Next to the clip, Gerashchenko wrote how the men had "suddenly realized that they were simply being 'nullified' by their commanders, whom they had never even seen in person, and decided to appeal to Putin. Good luck with that.
"They seem to be OK with going to another country to kill, they just don't want to get killed themselves," Gerashchenko added.

According to independent sources roughly 1,000 Russians are killed in Ukraine every day. Putin has already sent at least 561,400 to the meat grinder, and will gladly send all the rest to protect his power. He is sacrificing Russia's future for his own selfish ends. What a guy.