Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

[Alastor]

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukra...ev-war-1923713

Just in case anyone doubts that the entire purpose of Putin's war is to steal land.

And maybe you would have had a point if that was Putin saying that. Except that's not Putin, that's Medvedev. And Medvedev is not the one making the decisions.

And it's not just in case btw. Your claim is very dubious indeed.

[PointOfViewGun]

If it was actually Putin saying that we'd have someone here claiming that it wasn't actually Putin himself but his double...

[Alastor]

If it was actually Putin saying that we'd have someone here claiming that it wasn't actually Putin himself but his double...

And if that's what happened maybe you would have an argument against that someone. But it's not what happened and as usual you are speaking nonsense.

[PointOfViewGun]

And if that's what happened maybe you would have an argument against that someone. But it's not what happened and as usual you are speaking nonsense.

What happened is equally mind boggling. If it was any other issue you wouldn't so easily brush away comments from a person of Medvedev's calibre like that. Yet, you did. You have shown yourself to be utilizing double standards extensively on this issue in this thread. I will continue to point them out as you make them. Feel free to claim them to be nonsense as much as you like.

[Alastor]

What happened is equally mind boggling. If it was any other issue you wouldn't so easily brush away comments from a person of Medvedev's calibre like that. Yet, you did. You have shown yourself to be utilizing double standards extensively on this issue in this thread. I will continue to point them out as you make them. Feel free to claim them to be nonsense as much as you like.

I don't need your permission to call your nonsense what they are, but it's good to have it. And no, the 2 "happenstances" are nowhere near equally mind boggling. Putin did not say that, Medvedev said that. If the claim was "here is proof Medvedev wants to gobble up Ukraine", I'd say "okay". But the claim was "here is why Putin did what he did" and that simply doesn't follow. Also, let's not forget, there are senators in the US(ie Lindsay Graham) and high ranking politicians in the EU (ie Edgars Rinkevics), people arguably more important than a has-been like Medvedev, speaking about destroying or dismembering Russia and openly calling this a proxy war to bleed Russia dry and to the last Ukrainian. You would brush aside those comments in a heartbeat. So don't get cute with me and talk about double standards, not when you are the king of double standards.

[Peresvet]

I don't need your permission to call your nonsense what they are, but it's good to have it. And no, the 2 "happenstances" are nowhere near equally mind boggling. Putin did not say that, Medvedev said that. If the claim was "here is proof Medvedev wants to gobble up Ukraine", I'd say "okay". But the claim was "here is why Putin did what he did" and that simply doesn't follow. Also, let's not forget, there are senators in the US(ie Lindsay Graham) and high ranking politicians in the EU (ie Edgars Rinkevics), people arguably more important than a has-been like Medvedev, speaking about destroying or dismembering Russia and openly calling this a proxy war to bleed Russia dry and to the last Ukrainian. You would brush aside those comments in a heartbeat. So don't get cute with me and talk about double standards, not when you are the king of double standards.

putin, whom I hate, occupied my country Russia, I am from Russia and love this country, but the dictator and scoundrel putin and his minions seized power there, he attacks hospitals and maternity hospitals in Ukraine and kills children. Putin should be tried and sentenced to death by hanging.

[PointOfViewGun]

I don't need your permission to call your nonsense what they are, but it's good to have it. And no, the 2 "happenstances" are nowhere near equally mind boggling. Putin did not say that, Medvedev said that. If the claim was "here is proof Medvedev wants to gobble up Ukraine", I'd say "okay". But the claim was "here is why Putin did what he did" and that simply doesn't follow. Also, let's not forget, there are senators in the US(ie Lindsay Graham) and high ranking politicians in the EU (ie Edgars Rinkevics), people arguably more important than a has-been like Medvedev, speaking about destroying or dismembering Russia and openly calling this a proxy war to bleed Russia dry and to the last Ukrainian. You would brush aside those comments in a heartbeat. So don't get cute with me and talk about double standards, not when you are the king of double standards.

Nope. I wouldn't brush it aside in any way though its not exactly comparable as Lindsay Graham was not the president and prime minister of USA nor he currently sits on the Security Council. Edgars Rinkēvičs being a politician from Latvia doesn't fare better for your comparison.

[Alastor]

putin, whom I hate, occupied my country Russia, I am from Russia and love this country, but the dictator and scoundrel putin and his minions seized power there, he attacks hospitals and maternity hospitals in Ukraine and kills children. Putin should be tried and sentenced to death by hanging.

Putin, whom you hate so clearly you are far from a reliable character witness, won the elections in Russia many times over. The Russian people voted for him again and again. He did not occupy the country and you being "Russian" doesn't mean you can't be a boomerang bigot, or at the very least an extreme anti-Putin partisan.

Nope. I wouldn't brush it aside in any way though its not exactly comparable as Lindsay Graham was not the president and prime minister of USA nor he currently sits on the Security Council. Edgars Rinkēvičs being a politician from Latvia doesn't fare better for your comparison.

He wouldn't brush it aside in any way he says... before proceeding to brush it aside. Your hypocrisy is indeed staggering.

[Peresvet]

Putin, whom you hate so clearly you are far from a reliable character witness, won the elections in Russia many times over. The Russian people voted for him again and again. He did not occupy the country and you being "Russian" doesn't mean you can't be a boomerang bigot, or at the very least an extreme anti-Putin partisan.

He wouldn't brush it aside in any way he says... before proceeding to brush it aside. Your hypocrisy is indeed staggering.

There are no elections in Russia. They are completely falsified. I myself worked for them in the past and saw how falsifications were carried out there. If you are Russian, you cannot help but know about this. And if you are not from Russia, it is even more stupid for you to talk about this without knowing anything about the “elections” in Russia.

[Alastor]

There are no elections in Russia. They are completely falsified. I myself worked for them in the past and saw how falsifications were carried out there. If you are Russian, you cannot help but know about this. And if you are not from Russia, it is even more stupid for you to talk about this without knowing anything about the “elections” in Russia.

Right, we are all witnessing a mass delusion every couple of years. The claim that Putin doesn't have popular support to win elections within Russia is simply absurd and if you are making it, I don't care if you are a Russian, a bona fide Muscovite or even an all-knowing Martian. You have no clue what you are talking about. I don't doubt for a second that democracy in Russia is far from flawless, but similarly I don't doubt for a second Putin is legitimately the choice of the Russian people for president.

[PointOfViewGun]

He wouldn't brush it aside in any way he says... before proceeding to brush it aside. Your hypocrisy is indeed staggering.

That's one way to respond if you don't read what I said properly. You clearly do not realize that you're on a self-destructing argumentation path.

[Alastor]

That's one way to respond if you don't read what I said properly. You clearly do not realize that you're on a self-destructing argumentation path.

That would probably be because so far the only arguments getting destroyed are yours. And I am of course being quite generous by calling the nonsense you keep on spouting arguments.

[Peresvet]

You are from Russia and work for occupation putinist propaganda as an interested party. because only an engaged person does not see or notice the massive fraud in the Russian presidential elections, which I can confirm here with links, videos and testimonies of observers.

[Kyriakos]

What makes you so sure that Alastor is from Russia?

[Peresvet]

because only a stupid person or a person working for the Kremlin can say that there are “elections” in Russia and that the population really supports putin. I am from Russia, I worked in elections as a member of the election commission and personally saw that their results were falsified.

[Alwyn]

It's been a while since Abdülmecid mentioned this here, so here is a gentle reminder for everyone.

Hey guys, how about we chill out a bit and focus on the topic of the thread, which, last time I checked, concerned the war in Ukraine and not the moral integrity of our fellow members?

Tango's guidance may be worth considering too.

Try to back up your arguments with evidence and sources where appropriate. Any statistics used in your posts should be sourced.

The current issues seem to be whether Russia's elections are legitimate and whether Russia's president has the support of the people. I'd be interested to see evidence and sources on that.

[Legio_Italica]

because only a stupid person or a person working for the Kremlin can say that there are “elections” in Russia and that the population really supports putin. I am from Russia, I worked in elections as a member of the election commission and personally saw that their results were falsified.

Separately from the current back and forth, I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on Putin’s popularity or lack thereof. Sources are great but I’m particularly interested in the experiences that inform your opinion. I would be surprised to learn Putin doesn’t enjoy at least a plurality of popular support, given how long he’s been around.

Based on your experience, I’d also like to know what you think the Russian electoral landscape would look like if results were closer to what you consider accurate. My understanding is anyone who could replace Putin would continue to prosecute the war in Ukraine with something akin to popular support, potentially with greater competence or success in place of the current leadership.

[Peresvet]

It's been a while since Abdülmecid mentioned this here, so here is a gentle reminder for everyone.



Tango's guidance may be worth considering too.



The current issues seem to be whether Russia's elections are legitimate and whether Russia's president has the support of the people. I'd be interested to see evidence and sources on that.

About 22 million votes were added for Putin - this is the largest-scale ballot box stuffing in the history of Russia. The main tool of falsification by the election commissions was a simple calculator. It is also clear that the commissions stole votes from Davankov's, which resulted in him ending up on third place instead of second. This is shown by analysing the results by the method of Sergei Shpilkin, writes Ivan Shukshin. https://golosinfo.org/en/articles/146798

https://golosinfo.org/en/articles/146797
The 2024 presidential election in the Russian Federation was held on March 15-17, 2024. The Golos movement has analyzed and covered all stages of the election.Based on the results of long-term observation, three analytical reports have been issued: they have been on the legal particularities of the current elections, the nomination and registration of candidates, as well as on campaigning and administrative mobilization. Golos was publishing express reviews and the Voting Chronicle during the voting days of March 15-17. Detailed information underpinning this statement is provided in the materials listed above.
Golos was receiving information from observers, election commissions members, media representatives, voters, headquarters of candidates, political parties and party organizations through various channels, including the 8 800 500-54-62 hotline, the Map of Violations, and the Internet.
The joint call center hotline received 369 calls during the election. As of March 19, 2024 (08:30 Moscow time), the Map of Violations received 1,057 reports, including 892 reports during the voting days.
In its assessment of the election, Golos has been guided by the applicable Constitution of the Russian Federation and the international electoral standards recognized by Russia, which establish that free elections are the ultimate expression of the will of the people, that they shall be held amid a competitive campaign, ensuring equal opportunities for candidates and free participation of voters, while the voting and counting procedures shall allow to reliably determine the real will of voters. Freedom of expression, freedom of association, and freedom of assembly are also recognized as the mandatory conditions for the free formation of voters’ will.
The Golos movement has been recording deteriorating voters’ rights almost year by year. Unfortunately, presidential elections have been demonstrating a kind of anti-standards for conducting elections over the past 24 years. However, we have never seen a presidential election that falls so short of constitutional standards as the latest one.
The elections took place in a situation where the fundamental articles of the Constitution of the Russian Federation guaranteeing political rights and freedoms did not actually work, and the Constitution itself had been amended to circumvent the restriction on holding the presidential office for not more than two terms. The basic constitutional safeguard against the usurpation of power was dismantled.
The leitmotif of the election was “imitation”:

• Imitation of legality (in case of obvious unconstitutionality);
• Imitation of choice;
• Imitation of campaigning;
• Imitation of the opposition and the struggle for power;
• Imitation of openness and transparency;
• Imitation of observation (including “civic observation”);
• Imitation of the independence of election commissions;
• Imitation of the sovereignty of the people.

[Kyriakos]

With the latest news indicating that Trump is pretty much certain to return to power, is there any chance that a (let's not mince words) forced peace convention will take place in the near future?

[Peresvet]

With the latest news indicating that Trump is pretty much certain to return to power, is there any chance that a (let's not mince words) forced peace convention will take place in the near future?

I think yes. Trump probably cancel war support for Ukraine. And after this Zelensky can not continue war. I think thar war must be stop at modern line of sides. Because this line not change many times in big variations. And people of both sides die silly.