Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

[Septentrionalis]

Ukraine accepting jurisdiction is a pretext; would Iraq/Afganistan (or Serbia, if it has to be only for European countries) accepting such lead to the court having proceedings for war-crimes by (eg) the US?
It's not an international court if it's just to be used as a vassal of US; it decreases its status, which already was low due to how it handled the Yugoslav wars.

There might be some confusion about the purpose and practical meaning of the arrest warrant. There are now 123 countries, including all of Europe, where Putin no longer can legally go. What is even more important is that Maria Lvova-Belova, the Children's Rights Commissioner, is now also under an arrest warrant for her participation in mass kidnapping of children. That will signal that anyone working for the genocidal goals of Russia can be barred from the rest of the world for the rest of their lives. Even if they have children or property abroad.

If ICC is a vassal of US, that doesn't matter. Its purpose is to punish genocidal maniacs with the authority of the 123 signatories, and what those genocidal maniacs and their supporters in the remaining countries think of it has little importance.

[Kyriakos]

It doesn't matter to you. Maybe the issue is you think only your view and compatible ones magically matter.
Thankfully Finland in no way is begging a genocidal regime to allow it to enter nato, so there's no discrepancy there.

[Vanoi]

The debate over the ICC is useless. Putin isn't the first head of state charged under the ICC and won't be the last. It's extremely unlikely that Putin will be arrested anyway. No one generally tried to arrest heads of state wanted or not.

[Septentrionalis]

The debate over the ICC is useless. Putin isn't the first head of state charged under the ICC and won't be the last. It's extremely unlikely that Putin will be arrested anyway. No generally tried to arrest heads of state wanted or not.

I am not sure what the last sentence means, but I think you are missing the point I tried to make there. Whether or not Putin or any head of state is arrested or not, the warrant makes it impossible to safely travel for whoever else is blacklisted. For the Russian elite, travel in the west has been a pleasure and a status symbol. Many have vacation homes in the west and children studying there, because the Russian elites understand that everything is really safer and nicer in the west.

[Vanoi]

I am not sure what the last sentence means, but I think you are missing the point I tried to make there. Whether or not Putin or any head of state is arrested or not, the warrant makes it impossible to safely travel for whoever else is blacklisted. For the Russian elite, travel in the west has been a pleasure and a status symbol. Many have vacation homes in the west and children studying there, because the Russian elites understand that everything is really safer and nicer in the west.

The warrant is irrelevant. Again no one is going to arrest Putin. Heads of state wanted or not are not generally arrested due to having diplomatic immunity regardless of the laws they have broken. Putin can travel anywhere. No one wants to create a nasty precedent where leaders or heads of state could find themselves arrested or detained in a foreign country. Makes things like diplomacy and trust impossible.

[Septentrionalis]

It doesn't matter to you. Maybe the issue is you think only your view and compatible ones magically matter.

To whom should it matter? You and the rest of Russia supporters? To what I imagine to be the majority of the signatories, it doesn't matter what you and other Russia sympathizers think. The fact is that in a lot of places someone like the Chief Child Snatcher of Russia entering the country has a significant risk of being handcuffed and taken to court. That is all there is to it. That is all there needs to be.

For equal measure, your favorite dictatorship countries can make a similar deal and make American and European presidents and officials wanted for war crimes you imagined. That'll show 'em. No more vacationing in the Louvre of North Korea or the Iranian Riviera.

Thankfully Finland in no way is begging a genocidal regime to allow it to enter nato, so there's no discrepancy there.

Finland has not been begging a genocidal regime for anything, and neither has Sweden.

[Septentrionalis]

The warrant is irrelevant.

Okay, so you didn't read or understand my post. That's okay. Yes, I think too that Putin is not going to be arrested.

[Kyriakos]

Posting in this thread won't change anything at all - so apart from it being rather boring and overdone to name-call, it's also useless; it doesn't help your argument and just turns it into a rant.

[Vanoi]

Okay, so you didn't read or understand my post. That's okay. Yes, I think too that Putin is not going to be arrested.

Try again. Diplomatic immunity exists for all leaders and heads of state. He is not going to be arrested. Only in your dreams will Putin be arrested.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Try again. Diplomatic immunity exists for all leaders and heads of state. He is not going to be arrested. Only in your dreams will Putin be arrested.

Re-read what you've quoted.

[Vanoi]

Re-read what you've quoted.

Ahh I see. Still not correct though as Putin can still very much travel freely. No ICC signatory or not is going to barr him if he wishes to travel for diplomacy.

As I have said though the warrant is irrelevant. The ICC itself is irrelevant.

[Septentrionalis]

Re-read what you've quoted.

[Vanoi]

Coming from the guy who literally claims a couple of posts above me that Putin could be handcuffed and taken to court this is hilarious.

To The fact is that in a lot of places someone like the Chief Child Snatcher of Russia entering the country has a significant risk of being handcuffed and taken to court. That is all there is to it.

[Septentrionalis]

Coming from the guy who literally claims a couple of posts above me that Putin could be handcuffed and taken to court this is hilarious.

I really recommend that you actually read my posts if you want to comment on them. Putin is not the Children's Rights Commissioner in Russia.

[Vanoi]

I really recommend that you actually read my posts if you want to comment on them. Putin is not the Children's Rights Commissioner in Russia.

I am not sure what the last sentence means, but I think you are missing the point I tried to make there. Whether or not Putin or any head of state is arrested or not, the warrant makes it impossible to safely travel for whoever else is blacklisted. For the Russian elite, travel in the west has been a pleasure and a status symbol. Many have vacation homes in the west and children studying there, because the Russian elites understand that everything is really safer and nicer in the west.

Say it with me. Maria, Putin, no matter who you name, have diplomatic immunity. They cannot be arrested for simply entering a country regardless of an ICC warrant. They can travel safety to these countries. They are not going to be arrested.

[Laser101]

Say it with me. Maria, Putin, no matter who you name, have diplomatic immunity. They cannot be arrested for simply entering a country regardless of an ICC warrant. They can travel safety to these countries. They are not going to be arrested.

Actually, the ICC states that warrants are supposed to supersede diplomatic immunity (although no one has ever actually gone through with this AFAIK). However, given that Russia is not an ICC signatory, its decision don't have any more force against them than those of any other country's own courts. Therefore, if we took this argument a step further, it would imply that domestic courts have the right to overrule diplomatic immunity for any reason they choose, which kind of renders it a meaningless concept.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Well, for what it's worth, the Irish have stated that they'd arrest Putilinni if he sets foot in the RoI. Not that he's likely to visit Ireland any time soon, but it's the thought that counts. Maybe some more countries will follow suit?

[Mithradates]

Well, for what it's worth, the Irish have stated that they'd arrest Putilinni if he sets foot in the RoI. Not that he's likely to visit Ireland any time soon, but it's the thought that counts. Maybe some more countries will follow suit?

Putin will get arrested if he comes to Germany

Marco Buschmann, the German Justice Minister, has announced that he will execute an arrest warrant for Russian President Vladimir Putin if he sets foot on German soil.

I think this is the case throughout the EU.

[Cyclops]

Well, for what it's worth, the Irish have stated that they'd arrest Putilinni if he sets foot in the RoI. Not that he's likely to visit Ireland any time soon, but it's the thought that counts. Maybe some more countries will follow suit?

Land of my fathers, brave and stupid.

My family had some connection to the ICC, and while it is a politicized joke and hadn't dared touch US War criminals, it does have some semblance of integrity. If I were accused of good looks I would probably be found not guilty.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Putin will get arrested if he comes to Germany



I think this is the case throughout the EU.

B..based Germany?