Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

[StarDreamer]

It seems that a US drone was "shot down by accident" over Black Sea

Not shot down, rammed by a Russian plane. I don't understand the Russian action here, do they want their airplanes closing in on NATO aircraft to be shot down?

[Vanoi]

It was a collision. The Russian aircraft clipped the propeller. The US actually brought the drone down themselves. Minor incident really.

[Coughdrop addict]

It was a collision. The Russian aircraft clipped the propeller. The US actually brought the drone down themselves. Minor incident really.

Russia is so humiliated and desperate to make it seem like it's military isn't a joke that they have to trumpet even this.

[Kyriakos]

Was the drone doing anything important, or just randomly flying about without ill intentions ^^

[Cyclops]

Was the drone doing anything important, or just randomly flying about without ill intentions ^^

The US keeps a lot of the world's waterways clear for trade, apparently someone's been sinking Russian warships so they probably want to keep an eye on the region.

[Alastor]

A fairly interesting article: https://nationalinterest.org/feature...t-lines-206300

If we’re being frank, however, the contradiction at the heart of calls for more “burden-sharing” is probably recognized by those devoted to the permanence of the transatlantic alliance, and this incoherence is precisely its utility. Virtually no one in the American foreign policy establishment actually wants to give up the United States’ seat at the head of the table in NATO, which places Europe within America’s sphere of influence. And for some time, therefore, NATO’s existence, to quote the historian Richard Sakwa, will continue to be “justified by the need to manage the security threats provoked by its [own] enlargement.

[PointOfViewGun]

"Security threats provoked by its own enlargement" ... Still giving credit to this idiotic idea, I see. An idea that nobody managed to defend properly. Asserting it a million times won't make it true.

[Septentrionalis]

Nothing in this drone business makes any sense. According to the US, the Russians had first attempted to drop fuel on it and then risked damaging their own fighter by contacting the drone. Don't the Russians have any affordable means of destroying the drone without resorting to such bizarre actions? Are they out of cannon ammo?

[StarDreamer]

Nothing in this drone business makes any sense. According to the US, the Russians had first attempted to drop fuel on it and then risked damaging their own fighter by contacting the drone. Don't the Russians have any affordable means of destroying the drone without resorting to such bizarre actions? Are they out of cannon ammo?

It is this weird game of "not actually firing a weapon" thing that for some reason some view as not then being an attack. In my opinion it does not matter how you try to take out a airplane only that you intentionally did.

[PointOfViewGun]

Russians have a different understanding of what a golden shower is. Must have been a glitch in the radio transmission to the pilot from his commanding officer...

[Kyriakos]

Nothing in this drone business makes any sense. According to the US, the Russians had first attempted to drop fuel on it and then risked damaging their own fighter by contacting the drone. Don't the Russians have any affordable means of destroying the drone without resorting to such bizarre actions? Are they out of cannon ammo?

Maybe they wanted to make it fall without being ruined, so as to look for any useful insight on the drone's capabilities.
At least it wasn't a balloon; those get shot down no questions asked.

[PointOfViewGun]

Maybe they wanted to make it fall without being ruined, so as to look for any useful insight on the drone's capabilities.
At least it wasn't a balloon; those get shot down no questions asked.

At that speed water landing will be like hitting concrete head on. There is no viable option to force landing by mechanically peeing on it. Balloons got shot down within USA's airspace, not over high seas.

[conon394]

Couple points on the war so looks Poland and Slovakia are really going to pull the rigger on aircraft transfers. Seems OK since MBT did not start WW3. Note this will a bit more meaningful since the both countries aircraft are NATO integrated the range and ease of handing over NATO air launched kit will go up.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...r-to-six-weeks

Also over at Forbes David Axe has a good run down on why the Russian's are dusting off so many T-62s, its looking like everyone really overestimated how many useful T-72s they had in storage and could bring on line.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidax...h=7194ea856099
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidax...h=5840c7263624

If the second article is right and The First Guards Tank army is getting T-62s that is profoundly bad for Russia. In every possible way they is a massive retrograde step for its armored units. It essentially makes any company of Ukrainian Bradly a superior armored unit or even the older Leapord 1s they are getting..

In any case checking the time how long to when Ludicus posts the WaPo story?

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

If the second article is right and The First Guards Tank army is getting T-62s that is profoundly bad for Russia. In every possible way they is a massive retrograde step for its armored units. It essentially makes any company of Ukrainian Bradly a superior armored unit or even the older Leapord 1s they are getting..

And Germany has given german arms conpanies the permission to export 187 Leopard I to Ukraine. And this week i read Denmark, Netherlands and Germany are looking how much Leopard I they still in storage somewhere.

And in the right terrain (forest or hilly terrain) its still combative, as the Leopard I is smaller and more agile as the Leopard II.

Perfect as a lurking predator.

[conon394]

Perfect as a lurking predator.

Particularly against something like a T-62. The Leopards will have the edge in stabilization, range and target acquisition. I wonder if the Ukrainians can figure out how to mount some ERA on them.

[Cyclops]

Particularly against something like a T-62. The Leopards will have the edge in stabilization, range and target acquisition. I wonder if the Ukrainians can figure out how to mount some ERA on them.

I mean the irony is obvious, but is Putin realising his revived USSR by fighting a war where the arms are from the 1960's?

[Mithradates]

So Moscow said there was no collision and the drone crashed after making "sharp manoeuvres", having "provocatively" flown close to Russian air space.

[conon394]

So Moscow said there was no collision and the drone crashed after making "sharp manoeuvres", having "provocatively" flown close to Russian air space.

Well you have low flying hours and you get guys who make mistakes - best case. Worst is really dumb orders for trying to knock it down.

[Kyriakos]

The drone did provide a nice ad for the rapid maneuvering of the russian fighter jet ^^

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Yet another proof for "If the Russians deny it happened, it happened."