View Poll Results: Whom do you support and to what extent?

Voters
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  • I support Ukraine fully.

    103 69.59%
  • I support Russia fully.

    15 10.14%
  • I only support Russia's claim over Crimea.

    4 2.70%
  • I only support Russia's claim over Crimea and Donbass (Luhansk and Donetsk regions).

    11 7.43%
  • Not sure.

    7 4.73%
  • I don't care.

    8 5.41%

Thread: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

  1. #7861
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Septentrionalis View Post
    If you are looking for a way to confirm in one sentence that you know nothing about Russia, and people aren't taking your word when you try a straight-forward confession of ignorance, that is a really good way to convince them.
    You aren't charming your way out of it, m8
    Though I am not sure what you saw in your own post. You can ask russians directly if they care (nevermind "fear") about the governments of the baltic microstates. Thinking those are picked up as symbols of democracy is rather strange too; russians also have access to the internet.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










  2. #7862

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    You aren't charming your way out of it, m8
    Though I am not sure what you saw in your own post. You can ask russians directly if they care (nevermind "fear") about the governments of the baltic microstates. Thinking those are picked up as symbols of democracy is rather strange too; russians also have access to the internet.
    I am not sure what you are trying to say here, but Russian voters do not have any say in where Russia invades or not. And if they did, that would mean they are all for this genocidal mania, threatening with nukes, and what have you.

  3. #7863
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    You aren't charming your way out of it, m8
    Though I am not sure what you saw in your own post. You can ask russians directly if they care (nevermind "fear") about the governments of the baltic microstates. Thinking those are picked up as symbols of democracy is rather strange too; russians also have access to the internet.
    You seem to base your opinion on this false assumption that the Rashist regime operates based on what Russians think. It does not.

  4. #7864
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    about the governments of the baltic microstates
    Touch of arrogance there? Collectively vs Greece they are not that micro in population and very nearly the equal in real GDP... Greece is microstate to the US should I be caring about it? Not trying to be rude Kyriakos but your allegation is off base Monaco is a micro state or the Vanatu
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  5. #7865
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Not really, I'd say they have very nearly the equal in GDP to France.
    Not that the point was about GDP; it's about size of the country, which is relevant in war (nowhere much to fight).
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










  6. #7866
    Dave Strider's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Ah, screw it, I'm in an arguing mood today, I couldn't help but come back. Six or seven pages later...

    Quote Originally Posted by Septentrionalis View Post
    Would anti-American communist sound right to you? That is what he is even though he likes to brand himself as some kind of anarchist.
    Believe me, I wish he was that cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    Tankie now generally refers to those with a pathological hatred of the United States so severe they will praise and support literally anyone, no matter how vile, as long as that group opposes the United States.
    Then yes, tankie has been extremely distorted from its original meaning.

    The original usage of the term was meant to be those who supported the USSR sending tanks into Hungary in 1956. From there, it generalized to mean Soviet-style communists in general, following 1968 and 1989. My understanding was it still meant "authoritarian communist". But I've seen everyone from Putin (who is not a communist) to Chomsky (who is not authoritarian, and probably wouldn't accept the communist label either) to ing Bernie Sanders (who is neither of those things) called a tankie.

    Like other apologists Chomsky's worldview is very simple and very rigid, to the point that he is unable to conceptualize that in the current conflict Russia could ever be at fault for it's actions or that the United States cannot be at fault for everything bad that happens ever. He cannot reconcile his vision of how he thinks reality should work with concrete reality. Anything the United States does is bad, anyone that opposes or harms the United States is good, and that's as deep as he can go.
    I certainly don't think Chomsky thinks that way. He's critical of the US for its involvement in nearly every major going-on in international politics, as he has a right to be. The US sticks their fingers in every pie it can manage, that's their entire foreign policy strategy. We're the world policeman after all, we need to have some kind of an eye on everything. That's just how the Pax Americana works. I definitely don't think he would argue Russia "isn't at fault for its actions" considering he's condemned the Russian invasion, as has every sane person. What he is arguing is that the US potentially blew an opportunity to avoid the war by being more open to negotiations with Moscow. This was a far more credible position 13 months ago when it hadn't yet been explicitly shown that Putin was a completely irrational actor (as his invasion confirmed - it made, and continues to make, zero goddamn sense).

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    There he was in a nut shell The US is an irredeemable as a negative imperialist actor
    Which it is.

    and it commands all agency if other entities act negatively its only because the US made them do it.
    I think this is an oversimplification. America is the most powerful nation in the world, the sole world superpower with the potential exception of China in the next decade or two, the world policeman, the backbone of the global financial system, etc. If a country is in opposition to America then America will pressure them, and they must necessarily be reactive to America's actions and demands. This does not absolve them of their actions or deprive them of their agency, but there is an argument to be made that if the US would back the off of people from time to time, then maybe some events wouldn't come to pass.

    That did not turn out to be the case with Russia in Ukraine, because apparently Putin was determined to commit the immensely stupid decision to actually launch a hopeless invasion rather than his up-to-that-point fairly successful strategy of saber-rattling until another diplomatic conference could churn out some kind of paper-thin treaty he could tout as a victory at home.
    when the union's inspiration through the worker's blood shall run,
    there can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun,
    yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one?
    but the union makes us strong.

  7. #7867
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Morticia Iunia Bruti View Post
    German press is talking about an ominious pro-ukrainian group of 5 men and a woman with unknown nationality yes, but not about proofs for an involvement of the ukrainian government. T
    Perhaps you did not read carefully what I wrote:" Mats Ljungqvist, a senior prosecutor leading Sweden’s investigation, told The New York Times... “Do I think it was Russia that blew up Nord Stream? I never thought so. It’s not logical…”To sum up. Washington washes its hands, claiming Biden has limited influence on Kiev"

    Obviously, it is absolute disinformation, intended, as I said earlier, to wash the hands of the White House.The N.Y.Times in pointing the authorship of the terrorist act to an alleged "pro-Ukrainian group," of undisclosed identity, does not point to a name, a method, a source of funding or logistics. The paper mentions some "U.S. officials," but never says who they are. Of course, if they don't give facts, they always get it right.

    On NYT Nord Stream theory, German official raises specter of ‘false flag’


    (…) If this is some sort of false flag — traces left to suggest Ukrainian involvement — why?
    “The Biden administration seems to be recognizing that the story of the Russians blowing up their own pipeline wasn’t holding any water,” said Beebe.
    They didn’t show any evidence to the New York Times reporters, they simply said, ‘we have this new intelligence. Trust us.”

    Divers used chartered yacht to sabotage Nord Stream pipelines…but experts question theory

    Experts have questioned whether the amount of explosives used in the sabotage attacks, estimated to be several hundred kilograms, as well with the necessary breathing apparatus and other equipment could have been carried on such a small boat, raising the question of whether another vessel was involved.
    A New York Times report this week cited intelligence sources as saying a pro-Ukrainian group was involved, but German authorities have warned about the possibility of a “false-flag” operations in which misleading clues are left deliberately to point in the wrong direction.

    To have laid explosives on two pipelines 4km apart would probably have required four dives over a few days.
    Diving experts say such extended deep dives would have required a decompression chamber for the divers, which would not fit on a yacht. There are also question on whether there would be room for the required explosives. The Danish and Swedish governments have said that the blasts were equivalent to the power of “several hundred kilograms of explosive”. Some experts say up to 2,000kg would have been needed.

    The chair of the Bundestag’s intelligence oversight committee, Konstantin von Notz… He told Die Zeit the investigation was “very likely to be dealing with a state or quasi-state actor because it is very demanding to transport large quantities of explosives – up to two tons are now being discussed – undetected to the right place in the Baltic Sea, to transport them into a relevant depth in order to trigger several explosions in a controlled manner”.
    He said a “state-backed act of terrorism makes it more likely that false or deceptive clues were laid”.
    --
    Edit.
    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    An endless war is a preferable alternative to Russkiy Mir…Rashists suffer 5x the losses
    There are no endless wars. Remember, war propaganda works both ways.

    A few days ago, a wise voice crying out in the wilderness. Sorry, in the western garden. The West Is Losing the Messaging War Over Ukraine- Bloomberg

    The longer the country’s allies resist talking about the compromises that will be required to end the fighting, the more ground they will lose in the rest of the world.
    (…) Messaging that might have worked when Ukraine was playing defense against a terrifying ex-superpower isn’t as persuasive when its military no longer looks like the underdog.
    In effect, what the emerging world wants to hear from the West is less talk about “defending Ukraine” and more about “seeking peace.” The fact that even China has felt compelled to release its own (vague and impractical) roadmap for peace is a sign that the world wants to see that leaders are actively seeking to end this war.
    Ukraine’s allies should worry that Moscow’s intransigence is being obscured by the idea that the West is unwilling to accept compromises for peace. That is a problem of communication and messaging, one that needs to be addressed swiftly.
    While France’s Emmanuel Macron is a magnet for criticism in the West, he is also the only one among its leaders who has consistently said that this war will ultimately end through negotiation and compromise.
    He repeated at the Munich Security Conference last month that the goal was to achieve an “imperfect balance” that is “sustainable for Russia itself.” Given that no nuclear-armed power has ever been forced into unconditional surrender, Macron’s French rationalism is, as usual, on point.
    The rest of the world sees what Macron sees.
    That point is now. Nobody expects any real negotiations to begin tomorrow. But everyone has a right to expect that work towards a peace plan is intensive and ongoing. And, certainly, they will want to hear that commitment to peace from the world leaders best placed to make a difference.
    Last edited by Ludicus; March 10, 2023 at 03:04 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
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  8. #7868

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    None of the countries included seem even remotely likely to be invaded. This line of thinking is actually contradicted, not supported, by the cause for the current conflict, which is Ukraine's willingness to join NATO. If Russia will supposedly not hesitate to disregard the NATO membership of Estonia, Latvia and the rest of the countries randomly included, then why did it make such a big deal out of Ukraine's prospects to join the war? Seems rather inconsistent to me.
    My original post was about the Russian apologists getting their way. I was not saying these countries will be invaded, rather that the apologists will demand Russia be given these countries without a fight. They want the world to surrender before Putin and happily place itself under his boot.

    So, do you consider Putin's public statements a reliable source for the goals of Russia's foreign policy? Do you also believe that Russia has also invaded Ukraine to uproot any Nazi elements dominating the country's politics?
    If Putin says something it does not automatically become false, particularly when objective facts confirm it. Putin claimed responsibility for the missile attacks yesterday, does that mean he's lying and the attacks were done by someone else? Who?

    How is this a fact? Pro-Kremlin narratives are almost completely absent from the public discourse. There has been massive support for Ukraine and even calls for a more active implication in the conflict. Pretty much every major party, including even the far-right, has condemned the Russian invasion. Sounds as plausible as the Dolchstosslegende to me.
    Pro-Kremlin narratives are everywhere. Even on this obscure wargaming site, in this very thread, we have several posters pushing them under the exact same guises I listed. And it's not just here. Every comment section in every article about the war is filled with gushing praise for Putin's "peaceful intentions" and "traditional values" and "manliness".

    In the U.S. congress Pro-Kremlin narratives are common, with at least 57 Republicans actively on Putin's payroll. https://www.newsweek.com/full-list-5...ne-aid-1705463

    The Russian Federation has been coexisting with neighboring liberal democracies since its inception, so there doesn't seem to be even a correlation between Russia's aggression and the factor you suggest has played such a major role. Which is also a bit contradictory to the first alleged cause.
    Not by choice it hasn't. If Putin didn't fear democracy, he wouldn't throw protestors in jail, murder serious political rivals, or see Russia's former slave states moving to the west as a threat.

  9. #7869
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    I like that it is "pro Kremlin", not even just pro-Russia in general.
    Moving into "agents of Goldstein" territory, I'm afraid.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










  10. #7870
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    I like that it is "pro Kremlin", not even just pro-Russia in general.
    Things that are beneficial to the Kremlin are oft detrimental to Russia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    There are no endless wars. Remember, war propaganda works both ways.

    A few days ago, a wise voice crying out in the wilderness. Sorry, in the western garden. The West Is Losing the Messaging War Over Ukraine- Bloomberg
    Ludi, if this was 1939 you'd be marching around carrying "Why die for Danzig?" signs.
    This was ends when the Rashists off and go home.

  11. #7871
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    ...They want the world to surrender before Putin
    So, its not Putin who wants to conquer the word...

    There is only one power, which, being hegemonic, can do it. Frank Schumacher wrote chapter 13 of the book "The Age of Empires". The title, well chosen, could not be any other: "The Unites States: Empire as a way of Life?".
    China, not Russia, will get there. China scored a diplomatic victory today that must not please the US, for obvious reasons. China helps broker Iran-Saudi diplomatic agreement, calling deal ‘a victory for peace’
    Iran and Saudi Arabia have agreed to resume diplomatic relations after four days of intensive previously undisclosed talks in Beijing and seven years after ties were cut.
    No comment needed,
    Pentagon accused of blocking effort to hand Russia war crimes evidence to ICC.

    Defence department reportedly unwilling to share intelligence over fears precedent could be set against US soldiers.

    The New York Times quoted current and former officials as saying Pentagon resistance was the obstacle. It reported that the national security council (NSC) convened a meeting of senior officials on 3 February to try to resolve the dispute, but that the defence secretary, Lloyd Austin, did not budge.
    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    .This was ends when the Rashists off and go home.
    The question is: how to turn your wishes into reality? General Milley: Russia-Ukraine war will end with negotiations

    ...adding that it will be "very, very difficult" for Ukraine to expel all Russian forces from occupied territory.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  12. #7872
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Septentrionalis View Post
    It seems inconsistent if one thinks that NATO is a fundamental factor here. It is rather the west, and Russia is very much against former Eastern Bloc countries getting into cahoots with the west. NATO is just a military union of the west, and it looks really weak and divided at the moment. Dangerously weak.

    Most of the members have been neglecting their militaries for decades, not bothering to spend resources and basically taking NATO as a way to freeload and let American taxpayers take care of strategic-level defense capability while just allowing US and other NATO countries to have bases in their area. Even in mutual operations before the Ukraine conflict, NATO forces have often been poorly supplied and trusting the Americans to offset their shortcomings.

    Germany, in despite of US trying to convince them to pull their weight, have been more concerned with appeasing Russia and buying their gas, essentially colluding with the enemy. And not doing anything to increase their military spending and keeping their end of the bargain. Very recently, only 11 % of Germans said that they would fight even for their country, let alone fight for someone else's country.

    In Greece, only about 10 % of people polled agreed that Greece should fight for their NATO allies if they were attacked. In fact, Russia is seen more favorably than the US by a small majority of respondents. Turkey is undemocratic, against the values on which NATO was founded, and downright antagonistic to many pursuits of US and the NATO. Hungary is increasingly undemocratic and in many ways a Kremlin lapdog. Many other NATO countries, such as Italy, France, and Spain, are just lackluster.

    The crisis in Ukraine and the unwillingness to help has only underlined the fact that if Russia ever decides to invade the Baltics, as they clearly have demonstrated they would want to, there is no telling if the so far untested mutual defense article would mean much. It is not unlikely that the situation that would require an immediate and strong response would be met with now familiar "we shouldn't escalate the situation", "but Russian energy imports", "we cannot risk a world war / nuclear conflict over X", and general dilly dallying and playing time. Not everyone being onboard would give everyone else the perfect excuse not to do anything.

    I am convinced that it is better to have a small alliance of truly dedicated countries who would risk life and limb for their allies than a large group of freeloaders and fair-weather friends who are keen to enjoy more or less free-of-charge protection but not commit themselves. I am sure that the hawks in Kremlin, Tehran, Pyongyang, Beijing, and other places of similar nature are watching this division within NATO ranks and that they like what they see.
    Finlands part in sending Leopard II tanks to Ukraine:

    Finland will send three Leopard 2 tanks suitable for mine clearing to Ukraine and provide training for their use, the Finnish defence ministry said on Thursday.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ne-2023-02-23/

    German help for Ukraine:

    https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-...kraine-2054992

    Germans Soldiers, which are dispatched in Lithuania and will defend the Suwalki Gap:

    NATO and its member states

    As of spring 2022, units closest to the Suwałki Gap that belong to NATO or to its member states included:



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suwa%C5%82ki_Gap

    In the next years a full german brigade will be able to be mobilized in Lithuania in a few days in case of a crisis, which mean the material of the brigade will be storaged in Lithuania.

    What will Finland do in case of crisis? Sending their other two mine sweeper tanks?

    Please be realistic Finland is a minor country with no big industrial basis. It will be no help for the US against China, only another South Korea totally dependant on US protection against Russia. The US would weaken itself by dispatching permanent troups there.^^
    Last edited by Morticia Iunia Bruti; March 10, 2023 at 05:11 PM.
    Cause tomorrow is a brand-new day
    And tomorrow you'll be on your way
    Don't give a damn about what other people say
    Because tomorrow is a brand-new day


  13. #7873

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    German person sends a long rant that I am not going to read about some Finnish tanks as if that has anything to do with my point about NATO being viewed as divided and weak.

  14. #7874

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    I like that it is "pro Kremlin", not even just pro-Russia in general.
    Moving into "agents of Goldstein" territory, I'm afraid.
    Can you refute a word I said? I'll check back later.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Ludi, if this was 1939 you'd be marching around carrying "Why die for Danzig?" signs.
    Not only would they demand surrender to Hitler every step of the way, I would go further and say that many of the apologists would blame the United States for forcing the Nazis to commit genocide against their will.
    Last edited by Coughdrop addict; March 11, 2023 at 03:06 AM.

  15. #7875
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    I am not into thread fighting. I do not see what is there to refute, though! Claiming that other people on the web, who you know next to nothing about (as also they know nothing about you) are presenting a view not because it expresses them rationally (different from your own thinking) but due to nefarious reasons, is simply not a basis for discussion.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










  16. #7876
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    I am not into thread fighting. I do not see what is there to refute, though! Claiming that other people on the web, who you know next to nothing about (as also they know nothing about you) are presenting a view not because it expresses them rationally (different from your own thinking) but due to nefarious reasons, is simply not a basis for discussion.
    Sorry mate, placeholder for when George Soros tells me how to respond.


    Jokes aside there are anti-US political figures in my country who sincerely dislike the US for a range of fair and sensible reasons. Some feel communism hasn't been tried, some feel the US isn't 100% nice etc. I sort of agree with a lot of it but I am a realist and I don't think we're getting a better brand of slavery off of China or Russia. We certainly did not do as well under the UK, we were milked a lot harder.

    There are also some anti-US figures that used to be also pro-USSR and now mysteriously are pro Russian. They also have chameleoned into Greens in surprising (and highly organised) numbers, there's a weird dissonance in the Australian Greens where they tick boxes like 1. save the planet 2. save the whales 3. somewhat inaccurately decry a hyperspecific set of state relations in a corner of the Mediterranean basin. I am on board for two thirds of that but the last bit is so jarring you wonder how it made its way into the agenda.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  17. #7877
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    I agree, I never cared about whales either
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










  18. #7878
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Bakhmut revisited.
    The disclosure of the number of the Ukrainian casualties in combat with Russian forces has long been a confidential matter, so as not to interfere with morale, both in the military ranks and in society at large. The truth is that on the Ukrainian side, the descriptions, characterized by a pessimistic tone, do not vary much, Ukrainian soldiers in Bakhmut: 'Our troops are not being protected’ - The Kyev Independent

    KOSTIANTYNIVKA, Donetsk Oblast

    During their brief visits to the nearby town of Kostiantynivka, Ukrainian infantrymen told the Kyiv Independent of unprepared, poorly-trained battalions being thrown into the front line meat grinder to survive as best they could with little support from armored vehicles, mortars, artillery, drones and tactical information.

    “We don’t get any support,” says a soldier named Serhiy, who has been fighting on the front lines in Bakhmut, sitting down with his friend, also named Serhiy, for a conversation in a small cafe in the Kostiantynivka market. Both men are in their 40s but one of them is a bit older than the other.

    All soldiers in this article have been identified only by first name or callsign because they spoke to a publication without authorization by a press officer.
    They say that Russian artillery, infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers are often allowed to strike Ukrainian positions for hours or days without being shut down by Ukrainian heavy weapons. Some complained of poor coordination and situational awareness, allowing this to happen or making it even worse.

    Mortarmen spoke of extreme ammunition scarcity and having to use weapons dating back to World War II. Drones that are supposed to provide critical reconnaissance information are also scarce and are being lost at very high rates in some parts of the battlefield.

    All this leads to terrifying casualties of both dead and wounded. "The battalion came in in the middle of December… between all the different platoons, there were 500 of us," says Borys, a combat medic from Odesa Oblast fighting around Bakhmut. "A month ago, there were literally 150 of us."

    “When you go out to the position, it’s not even a 50/50 chance that you’ll come out of there (alive),” says the older Serhiy. “It’s more like 30/70.”
    (…)Authorities haven’t revealed any information on Ukrainian losses in the Battle of Bakhmut. Based on the soldiers’ testimonies, Ukrainian losses appear to be high as well.

    Worse by the day

    Bakhmut has been the site of very heavy fighting for months, but in the past few weeks, Russian attacks have intensified to an insane degree according to most interviewees.
    Multiple soldiers say that they are under massive assault from both Wagner Group mercenaries and regular Russian forces.
    “There’s Wagner and there’s two brigades of airborne assault,” says Oleksandr, an infantryman from Sumy, who is part of a Ukrainian assault battalion in Bakhmut. “It’s rough. Constant waves, nonstop.”

    Some have characterized the Russian attacks as huge waves of cannon fodder, while others say that the invaders’ tactics have evolved to keep up with the battlefield.
    The older Serhiy says that the enemy likes to send a team of three or four expendable foot soldiers to attack and make the Ukrainians expose themselves by shooting at them. At that point, the more elite forces zero in on the defenders’ position.

    (…) the Ukrainians are struck with heavier weapons like Russian mortars and rockets from Grad multiple launch rocket systems or BMP infantry fighting vehicles and BTR armored personnel carriers with machine guns.

    “They get the positions where we are, establish the coordinates, then they hit us from seven to nine kilometers out with mortars,” as well as from closer by with grenade launchers, says the older Serhiy. “They wait for the house to fall so we have to jump out. The building catches fire and then they try to finish us off.”
    --
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    . Some feel communism hasn't been tried, some feel the US isn't 100% nice etc.
    Russia is a capitalist and autocratic state.The same applies to China. That said, I don’t think that the Manifest Destiny of Russia is -destined by God- to expand its dominion across the European continent. Nothing suggests that the Russian Monroe Doctrine is intended to include the Baltic States, Sweden, or Finland. (This terminology, taught in American schools, is seen as a historical curiosity, but in practice it has always been very much alive, as in 2019 John Bolton reminded us "Today we proudly proclaim that all can hear: the Monroe Doctrine is alive and well.")
    Last edited by Ludicus; March 11, 2023 at 05:40 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  19. #7879

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    That said, I don’t think that the Manifest Destiny of Russia is -destined by God- to expand its dominion across the European continent. Nothing suggests that the Russian Monroe Doctrine is intended to include the Baltic States, Sweden, or Finland. (This terminology, taught in American schools, is seen as a historical curiosity, but in practice it has always been very much alive, as in 2019 John Bolton reminded us "Today we proudly proclaim that all can hear: the Monroe Doctrine is alive and well.")
    Then you haven't been paying attention. Putin said several times in the past that he intends to control everything Russia ever had in its influence, made demands denying sovereignty of those countries, his propagandists have been talking a lot about idea of Russian-controlled state spanning from Lisbon to Vladivostok, and so on...

  20. #7880
    Papay's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    It seems that a US drone was "shot down by accident" over Black Sea

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