View Poll Results: Whom do you support and to what extent?

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  • I support Ukraine fully.

    92 69.17%
  • I support Russia fully.

    14 10.53%
  • I only support Russia's claim over Crimea.

    4 3.01%
  • I only support Russia's claim over Crimea and Donbass (Luhansk and Donetsk regions).

    8 6.02%
  • Not sure.

    7 5.26%
  • I don't care.

    8 6.02%

Thread: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

  1. #7301
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    I read it's the anniversary of the conclusion to the battle of Stalingrad.
    Hopefully the war won't go on until the next one.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










  2. #7302
    Peresvet's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Sar1n View Post
    Your average mobiks maybe, but I'm talking about people like Shoigu, Gerasimov, Bortnikov...the Putin's "yes men". They're the kind of scum that naturally floats upwards in the corrupt oligarchies like Russia. Unscrupulous, backstabbing, and when needed bootlicking self-serving products of decades of institutionalized corruption. They're the ones who can really prevent Putin from reaching for WMDs, and in the unlikely event he'll try it, they'll save their lives the only way possible...
    putin has surrounded himself only with guards, who, in their thinking, are ordinary mobs, he is in a bunker in the Urals and does not let anyone in without a total check and quarantine, even the closest henchmen cannot enter his reception without being subjected to total filtering.
    I am Russian and I hate putin and war. Stop war in Ukraine.

  3. #7303
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    I read it's the anniversary of the conclusion to the battle of Stalingrad.
    Hopefully the war won't go on until the next one.
    Agreed. Very sad date. Ordinary Germans whipped to war with lies paid for their leaders evil ambition. Ordinary Soviet citizens slaughtered for someone else's dream.

    Theres not too much relevance to today, this is a mid power proxy war and while Ukraine may be fighting for political survival Putin isnt Hitler and Zelenskyy isnt Stalin.

    Both sides have scumbag elements aping the BBEG but I suspect they are brigand thugs most interested in being cool and scary, and to them the SS are the coolest scariest thing they xan imagine.

    The real SS would have starved or burnt both the Azovs and Wagner as subhumans.

  4. #7304
    Peresvet's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Agreed. Very sad date. Ordinary Germans whipped to war with lies paid for their leaders evil ambition. Ordinary Soviet citizens slaughtered for someone else's dream.

    Theres not too much relevance to today, this is a mid power proxy war and while Ukraine may be fighting for political survival Putin isnt Hitler and Zelenskyy isnt Stalin.

    Both sides have scumbag elements aping the BBEG but I suspect they are brigand thugs most interested in being cool and scary, and to them the SS are the coolest scariest thing they xan imagine.

    The real SS would have starved or burnt both the Azovs and Wagner as subhumans.
    I recently spoke with a man from Wagner. He went there because he needed money. At Wagner, he earns over $7,000 a month. Not every American earns that much. And in Russia, in a civilian profession, he would earn at most 300-400 dollars. In the city where I was born. That is why naive Russians go there. Those who survived live well and provide for their families. But few of them survive.


















    I am Russian and I hate putin and war. Stop war in Ukraine.

  5. #7305

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Camcolit View Post
    Might makes right has been practiced and is being practiced right now by the US and its allies/clients on a continuous basis all around the world. Why the sudden concern? Historical (and even contemporary) amnesia is impressively deployed every time someone not approved of starts a war.
    In such scenario, war has its honors, and if someone pushing to become Emperor of the East starts to throw a "muh nukes" tantrum everytime things go wrong, then that calls for everybody's attention at an international level, because those who became Emperors by conquest, had frustrations in strategy all the time.

    Also they often had problems in knowing when to stop, even when everything was going well.
    So it's implied (and demonstrated) there'll be a repetitive tantrum about nukes, over his own planned operation.

    Another is that the Emperor of the East view validates Ukranian right to self defense.
    I mean would you consider Russia as ethically incorrect for.. having raised its army to make a stand against invading Napoleon?

    Another part is that anti-imperialism views was promoted to a relevant degree by USSR during the cold war, (part of marxism-leninism) and after the 90s continued the tradition. So well, empathisers of such rethoric, who were enough to cause very big protests, sooner or later come to find their new acquisition that entered the game.
    Last edited by fkizz; February 02, 2023 at 09:49 PM.
    It will be seen that, as used, the word Fascism is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

    -George Orwell

  6. #7306
    Peresvet's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Russian losses in Ukraine approach 200,000 killed and wounded - NY Times

    The New York Times, citing American officials, writes that it is very difficult to give an accurate estimate of the number of deaths, so these are only approximate figures. It is noted that Ukrainian forces also suffer significant losses. The article also states that due to heavy losses in Bakhmut, both sides of the conflict keep more trained units in reserve - the Russian Federation sends mobilized and prisoners into battle, and from the Ukrainian side, the burden of shelling often falls on the shoulders of Teroborona units.
    I am Russian and I hate putin and war. Stop war in Ukraine.

  7. #7307
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Morticia Iunia Bruti View Post
    ...

    German industry offers up to 100 main battle tanks for Ukraine
    This is especially true when you include discarded equipment that is stockpiled by the industry. As the Handelsblatt learned from industry circles, in addition to the modern Leopard 2, Leopard 1 and the British model Challenger 1 could also be refurbished and handed over to Kyiv. This would have the advantage that the Bundeswehr would not have to give up any tanks from its own scarce stock.

    The Flensburg armaments company FFG also has Leopard 1 in stock and could retrofit it for the Ukraine. It is unclear to what extent Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (KMW) - the main manufacturer of the Leopard 2 - could participate in a possible delivery. The company has so far remained silent on the matter.

    Ukraine-Krieg: Deutsche Industrie bietet mehr als 100 Kampfpanzer fr Ukraine an (handelsblatt.com)

    ...
    This has become more concrete , as the German Government has given today the export license for the german arms industry to deliver the older model Leopard I to Ukraine, which was the first german tank for Bundeswehr and was produced between the 60s and 80s.

    As Spiegel reports the license was given to Flensburger Fahrzeugbau, which has 29 Leopard I more or less ready for Ukraine.

    A big problem is the munition for its 10,5 cm gun.

    Brasilia is still refusing at the moment to sell its ammunition from the time, when it has possessed 250 Leopard I, also the ammunition from Gepard.

    But Germany is still trying to buy ammunition from Quatar and 14 more Gepards.

    In July the first new munition for Gepard can be produced and delivered by Rheinmetall. Bundeswehr has ordered 150.000 ammunition shells for Ukraine.

    In the end i guess we must produce new 10,5 cm ammunition for Leopard too, as there up to 100 tanks can be delivered to Ukraine.
    Last edited by Morticia Iunia Bruti; February 03, 2023 at 07:02 AM.
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  8. #7308
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Not going to knock Germany because I think they are only at a bit more of one end of the curve more than most part of the same club. The end of the cold war and quick victories in Iraq and Serbia and the fact the GWOT did not really eat ammo (and the wear and tear on stuff was kind of buried and ignored but it happened slowly) really saw all of NATO and including the US really fail to plan for what a real long term high intensity war would use in terms of ammunition, repair and new stuff made and needed ASAP.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  9. #7309
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future


  10. #7310
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    ^Ukraine didn't have comparable losses to (whichever) the russian ones? Because they keep asking for more and more weapons, which sort of isn't what you do when you have the upper hand; I suppose they have their reasons (aside from the black market, of course ^^)
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










  11. #7311
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    ^Ukraine didn't have comparable losses to (whichever) the russian ones? Because they keep asking for more and more weapons, which sort of isn't what you do when you have the upper hand; I suppose they have their reasons (aside from the black market, of course ^^)
    Your statement is nonsensical. Russia has the bulk of the ex USSR military industry, the massive majority of all its old produce in storage. Russia was a major arms supplier Ukraine a minor one thus the capacity to produce new weapons is vastly different.

    Tally up just the missile strikes Kyriakos and ask yourself what exactly Greek industry would be churning out right now after a year of that on its own? How many days of ammunition of say 155mm shells does Greece have on hand if used at the rate the Ukrainians are using ammo? Looking at the list of major equipment of the Hellenic army in not seeing a ton Made in Greece.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  12. #7312
    Peresvet's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    ^Ukraine didn't have comparable losses to (whichever) the russian ones? Because they keep asking for more and more weapons, which sort of isn't what you do when you have the upper hand; I suppose they have their reasons (aside from the black market, of course ^^)

    In total, since the beginning of the war, Russia, according to Oryx, has lost at least 8023 units of military equipment (4914 destroyed, 198 damaged, 300 abandoned, 2611 captured by the Armed Forces of Ukraine). Oryx estimates the losses of Ukraine during this time at 2287 units of military equipment (1371 destroyed, 94 damaged, 60 abandoned, 761 captured).

    The list includes only equipment, the loss of which is confirmed by photo and video materials in the public domain, and the actual amount of destroyed equipment is much higher, Oryx analysts emphasize.

    https://www.dw.com/ru/oryx-s-nacala-...kov/a-63821986
    I am Russian and I hate putin and war. Stop war in Ukraine.

  13. #7313
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Peresvet View Post
    In total, since the beginning of the war, Russia, according to Oryx, has lost at least 8023 units of military equipment (4914 destroyed, 198 damaged, 300 abandoned, 2611 captured by the Armed Forces of Ukraine). Oryx estimates the losses of Ukraine during this time at 2287 units of military equipment (1371 destroyed, 94 damaged, 60 abandoned, 761 captured).

    The list includes only equipment, the loss of which is confirmed by photo and video materials in the public domain, and the actual amount of destroyed equipment is much higher, Oryx analysts emphasize.

    https://www.dw.com/ru/oryx-s-nacala-...kov/a-63821986
    If the sanctions were what they should be, Russia should be on her knees right now. It's because Germany can't wake up. And don't believe that Germans have super high living standards, so they can't be bothered. They don't! It's a dying old country in all of it's misery. They will not move, no matter what, because they can't.

    Germany, militarily acting as the center of gravity in Europe... i would laugh if it was actually funny.

    The Russians aren't doing better at all of course.
    The loss of human life for Russia must be enormous. The official numbers are at what, 70000? It's probably much more than that. Now they claim they can field another 5000000 soldiers. It's insane. Even if they can field that number, the will to declare that alone is insane. They should be beaten. Nobody can really tell.

    However, the vast majority of the material support comes from the USA. If the US is tiring of this all of the sudden, then the front collapses and Putin gets his "prestige victory" and stays in office. They are all dreaming of Putin being assassinated or somehow else removed (i personally hope he dies off butt cancer or something), but this really, once again, depends on the US. A few German tanks won't do . It's miserable. It's shameful.

  14. #7314
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Your statement is nonsensical. Russia has the bulk of the ex USSR military industry, the massive majority of all its old produce in storage. Russia was a major arms supplier Ukraine a minor one thus the capacity to produce new weapons is vastly different.

    Tally up just the missile strikes Kyriakos and ask yourself what exactly Greek industry would be churning out right now after a year of that on its own? How many days of ammunition of say 155mm shells does Greece have on hand if used at the rate the Ukrainians are using ammo? Looking at the list of major equipment of the Hellenic army in not seeing a ton Made in Greece.
    Come on, no reason to bring no-high-end building Greece into this, let alone when you spoke of ammunition depleted as a reply to a post about asking for MORE machinery that eats up said ammunition
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










  15. #7315
    Peresvet's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    Come on, no reason to bring no-high-end building Greece into this, let alone when you spoke of ammunition depleted as a reply to a post about asking for MORE machinery that eats up said ammunition
    Greece is a great country, I love it, and I hope that when we come to state, russian national democrats, liberals and allies of Europe, we, together with the Greeks, will be in NATO and the European Union as the state of a free Russia without putin and his regime.
    I am Russian and I hate putin and war. Stop war in Ukraine.

  16. #7316
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-a...ws-11675466360

    So China is definitely raising Russia in it's war against Ukraine. Gonna be hard for Republicans who want to abandon Ukraine and focus on China to ignore this.

  17. #7317
    Kyriakos's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Peresvet View Post
    Greece is a great country, I love it, and I hope that when we come to state, russian national democrats, liberals and allies of Europe, we, together with the Greeks, will be in NATO and the European Union as the state of a free Russia without putin and his regime.
    Didn't Putin try to get Russia into the Eu? (back when he was popular) It would never have been allowed by Germany/France, because they'd lose eternal control of the Eu parliament.
    Λέων μεν ὄνυξι κρατεῖ, κέρασι δε βούς, ἄνθρωπος δε νῷι
    "While the lion prevails with its claws, and the ox through its horns, man does by his thinking"
    Anaxagoras of Klazomenae, 5th century BC










  18. #7318
    Mithradates's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    ^Ukraine didn't have comparable losses to (whichever) the russian ones? Because they keep asking for more and more weapons, which sort of isn't what you do when you have the upper hand; I suppose they have their reasons (aside from the black market, of course ^^)
    They are asking for Western weapons to have the upper hand, and yes, even a small number of Western weapons could change the war.

    For example, Russian artillery supremacy is largely based on saturation fire, and the HIMARS denies that. Normally Russian artillery needs ammo depots in 20-30 kilometers from the front to supply them, because of HIMARS, which has 85 km range and Russia has no counter against it, now they need to supply their artillery from 90+ kilometers which makes saturation fire really hard/not possible.

    The Bayraktar TB-2 drones made it possible for Ukraine to hit and sunk the Moskva with their Neptune anti-ship missiles.

    In Bakhmut, Russia can only use infantry with some artillery support because if they send any armored vehicles the Ukrainians will blow them up with Western Man Portable Anti-Tank Guided Missiles.

    Russia is putting Pantsir anti-air systems on top of important buildings in Moscow, does that sound like winning to you?

    And about the black-market, can you actually source that? (Its FSB propaganda.)

  19. #7319

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    Didn't Putin try to get Russia into the Eu? (back when he was popular) It would never have been allowed by Germany/France, because they'd lose eternal control of the Eu parliament.
    As a joke, sure.
    The Armenian Issue
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  20. #7320
    Peresvet's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriakos View Post
    Didn't Putin try to get Russia into the Eu? (back when he was popular) It would never have been allowed by Germany/France, because they'd lose eternal control of the Eu parliament.
    The situation in the early 2000s was ambiguous. On the one hand, Putin wanted, like Erdogan, to join NATO and the European Union, on the other hand, he did nothing to meet standards of EU and corruption increased. He constantly worsened the situation in the country with civil liberties and rights, closed free media and started a wave of repression. The NTV channel was closed, Khodorkovsky was imprisoned. That is why the European Union did not consider it necessary to believe Putin and, as it turned out, was right.
    Last edited by Peresvet; February 04, 2023 at 04:09 PM.
    I am Russian and I hate putin and war. Stop war in Ukraine.

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