Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

[Ludicus]

Update on the banning of opposition political parties in Ukraine Schiller Institute

If the Supreme Court does not overturn the ruling of the 8th Administrative Appeals Court of Lviv, dated 23 June 2022, on banning the PSPU, we believe that will mark the end of democracy in Ukraine.

The Ukrainian Court has finally banned the last and largest of all the 12 political opposition parties, the Socialist Party of Ukraine, after the Administrative Court rejected the appeal of the SPU.

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Biden after threatening to bring an end to the Nordstream 2- and that’s what ended up happening- has recently been considering a ban on US gas exports: “reportedly weighing”; “eying a ban” on exports of US gas. The White House is reportedly weighing a controversial measure to lower gas prices ahead of midterm elections
Already at the beginning of this year, “despite a push of some democrats”, US not considering gas export ban, official says | The Hill

The point is not that they didn't do what they thought. The point is that they thought to do it. And no one can assure Europe that this will not happen. Because they can - and frankly they have the right to do so. In addition, nobody in Europe can predict what will happen after November 8^th.

We are then at sea without a compass. In Europe, we don't know who elects our leaders and how they got to these positions, and- as stated below, although I do not agree with all the statements made here, Europe's self-destruction - New Age , I do agree with this,

(…) The last generation of European leaders with any experience of acting independently of the US —Churchill, Anthony Eden, de Gaulle, et al — passed into history during the early part of the Cold War, Anderson astutely pointed out. No generation since has any experience other than as dependents sheltering under the American security umbrella. They know nothing else. They have never spoken in voices of their own.

Sometimes, you just have to bite the bullet, or swallow the toad, but it is a truth that must be accepted. Washington said, and it also applies to Europe: “To the efficacy and permanency of your Union, a government for the whole is indispensable. No alliance, however strict, between the parts can be an adequate substitute”.
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In fact, as Seneca put it, if one does not know to which port one is sailing, no wind is favorable.
Will the energy crisis crush European industry? | Financial Times

The alarm bells are ringing among Europe’s politicians. “We are risking a massive deindustrialisation of the European continent,” says Alexander De Croo, Belgium’s prime minister.

Just a few hours ago,
IEA says Europe must act now to avoid winter 2023 gas shortages

To sum up, IEA calculations indicate that about 30 billion cubic meters of gas could be in short supply next year if deliveries from Russia stop completely and with the economic recovery in China, which will absorb a large part of the liquefied natural gas. European reserves will only be at 65% by early winter 2023-2024, when they are currently at 95%
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Edit,
Paddy Cosgrave admitted at a press conference that, Web Summit 'pushes the boundaries of discourse,'

We understand the reaction of many to The Grayzone’s presence in Lisbon and we pledge to approach the crucial issues of freedom of expression and platform technologies with greater care,” the organisation said in a series of tweets
We do our best to listen to our attendees or speakers partners. But in this instance, there was a there's a considerable backlash to the participants that had been on the website for several months, and people kind of hadn't noticed them or certain people have noticed them," Cosgrave told Euronews Next. "And then we made the decision to cancel their speaking slots at the event".
Conversely, Cosgrave said there was also disquiet among Pulitzer prize-winning journalists who told him not to cancel them as they still speak on Spotify, Twitter Youtube and other social media platforms.
Another speaker at Web Summit who has been another cause for contention is the American philosopher Noam Chomsky… but Cosgrave said he would not cancel Chomsky as he is speaking on artificial intelligence and because he believes in the right to free speech. "Our job is, I think, to push the boundaries of debate and discourse," he said. "We've never wanted to be vanilla when some large gatherings are important. Gatherings in Europe have talked about philanthropy, but we've said, well, that's . We're talking about corporate tax, but corporate tax evasion."And we platform some of the most important people, in my view, undone".

Well said.

[conon394]

Update on the banning of opposition political parties in Ukraine Schiller Institute

Biden after threatening to bring an end to the Nordstream 2- and that’s what ended up happening- has recently been considering a ban on US gas exports: “reportedly weighing”; “eying a ban” on exports of US gas. The White House is reportedly weighing a controversial measure to lower gas prices ahead of midterm elections
Already at the beginning of this year, “despite a push of some democrats”, US not considering gas export ban, official says | The Hill

The point is not that they didn't do what they thought. The point is that they thought to do it. And no one can assure Europe that this will not happen. Because they can - and frankly they have the right to do so. In addition, nobody in Europe can predict what will happen after November 8^th.

We are then at sea without a compass. In Europe, we don't know who elects our leaders and how they got to these positions, and- as stated below, although I do not agree with all the statements made here, Europe's self-destruction - New Age , I do agree with this,

The US exports almost no refined gas or other refined petroleum to Europe Ludicus. In fact even netting out Russia the US gets more than it exports in terms of EUrope.

https://oec.world/en/profile/bilater...m/reporter/usa

All of which as nothing to do LNG. Your a bit hysterical on this. It would the oh so neutral global south that would have been hurt.

Realistically US imports from Russia (I'm citing 2020) probably are Alaska and west coast. After that the amounts between the US and EU are so small they must be either specialty products or some kind of seasonal balancing around maintenance or weather or such or just contracts delivered do to price.

[Septentrionalis]

Overall, Russia's conduct of war isn't in any major way different form what US or any other major conventional powers have been doing themselves, when it comes to critical infrastructure and bombings.

You cannot be serious. As in Afghanistan, US leveled entire cities and hit civilian targets with the express purpose of increasing suffering? Didn't put its own troops in danger to avoid civilian casualties? And didn't spend billions to develop the country?

As for the baby-eating accusations, they tend to be based on unsubstantiated claims by other side in the conflict, which you seem to be giving benefit of the doubt for some totally unbiased reason.

Russia is a dictatorship that lies and obfuscates things with regularity, has no real democracy or freedom of press, and seems unable to show much benevolence even to its own citizens let alone other nations. People are leaving Russia because it is a bad place to live for many, and next to no one (maybe some Armenians) is lining up for the opportunity to find a better life in Russia.

There is a reason why Ukraine along with observers and journalists from many different countries sound more credible than the dictator's press office in Kremlin.

[EmperorBatman999]

To add to what I said it is reported roughly half of Ukranian energy infrastructure is now caput!
This will mean entire cities will need to be evacuated come Decembers harsh winter, or freeze to death.
Point being Ukraine is in very bad shape as far as it's fighting capacity, Ukraine is done!.

From the reports I read, water had been almost completely restored to Kyiv within 48 hours, which means electricity isn't far behind.

Otherwise, did cities just not exist until electricity became available? Do people just lay down and die because their electric heater has lost function? No, the people of Ukraine's cities will get by with alternate sources of heat, as they had done for centuries, and for many still, probably not too long ago.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

To add to what I said it is reported roughly half of Ukranian energy infrastructure is now caput!
This will mean entire cities will need to be evacuated come Decembers harsh winter, or freeze to death.
Point being Ukraine is in very bad shape as far as it's fighting capacity, Ukraine is done!.

It is not often that one sees someone actively celebrate the fact that the side they support has committed warcrimes, yet here you are.
"Russia has destroyed civilian infrastructure, which could potentially lead to the deaths of thousands, if not millions, of civilians! woohooo!!!"

[Heathen Hammer]

You cannot be serious. As in Afghanistan, US leveled entire cities and hit civilian targets with the express purpose of increasing suffering?

Kunduz children's hospital strike springs to mind, Obama sure showed those wounded toddlers not to mess with American Democracy.

Didn't put its own troops in danger to avoid civilian casualties? And didn't spend billions to develop the country?

Former sounds like a journo fairy tale to rationalize the occupation, while the latter ended up in bank accounts of the proxy regime that fled the country hours after Americans did.

Russia is a dictatorship that lies and obfuscates things with regularity,

So does every other major power including Western "democracies".

has no real democracy or freedom of press,

Laughs in DHS leak about feds giving "free press" directives so that they don't accidentally say something that's true.

and seems unable to show much benevolence even to its own citizens let alone other nations. People are leaving Russia because it is a bad place to live for many, and next to no one (maybe some Armenians) is lining up for the opportunity to find a better life in Russia.

Go into any Russian forum and look at rants about immigrants. I assume they don't come from Mars. Russia is doing poor in QoL department, mainly due to 7 decades of communism imported from "free West".

There is a reason why Ukraine along with observers and journalists from many different countries sound more credible than the dictator's press office in Kremlin.

So far there is no evidence that would show those paid propagandists to be objective and just siding with Zelensky's regime because their bosses said so.

[Septentrionalis]

To add to what I said it is reported roughly half of Ukranian energy infrastructure is now caput!
This will mean entire cities will need to be evacuated come Decembers harsh winter, or freeze to death.

You can tell a lot about a person by the things they find joy in.

I would find joy in the Russian people enjoying good governance, basic freedoms, and getting to spend their resources on improving their lives instead of pointless warfare. I am genuinely happy for what the former Eastern Bloc countries now have after they joined the west, and having Russia onboard as well would not hurt any of us.

[Septentrionalis]

Kunduz children's hospital strike springs to mind, Obama sure showed those wounded toddlers not to mess with American Democracy.

I really do not see a point in arguing with you, but for the readers of this thread, I would like to point out something.

During the 20 years of war in Afghanistan, the US did do an airstrike on a hospital in Kunduz. I do not have information of that being a children's hospital as HH claims, but it was a hospital and a one that was run by volunteers largely from the West that HH is trying to portray as evil. Barack Obama issued an apology for the mistake and the US paid reparations for the families of the people who were killed.

The World Health Organization recognized 269 Russian attacks on health care facilities and ambulances in Ukraine in just the first 100 days of the war, and they have continued since and continue to this day. There are no apologies and no reparations.

Please do not fall victim to that kind of Russian obfuscation that one admittedly mistaken attack on a hospital makes continuous attacks on health care installations equal in moral implications.

[Heathen Hammer]

Ah yes, WHO, the organization that spread misinformation that resulted with global pandemic on China's behest is now ultimate source of truth. For Our Democracy.
But yeah, according to Septentrionalis, its okay to bomb hospitals as long as you make a nice apology later.
Jesus ing christ, Russia doesn't need any of those mythical "bots" when anti-Russian people say stuff like that.

[conon394]

Ah yes, WHO, the organization that spread misinformation that resulted with global pandemic on China's behest is now ultimate source of truth. For Our Democracy.

What?

But yeah, according to Septentrionalis, its okay to bomb hospitals as long as you make a nice apology later.

How you manage to construe that reply out of what was posted is truly baffling.

[PointOfViewGun]

To add to what I said it is reported roughly half of Ukranian energy infrastructure is now caput!
This will mean entire cities will need to be evacuated come Decembers harsh winter, or freeze to death.
Point being Ukraine is in very bad shape as far as it's fighting capacity, Ukraine is done!.

Surely on Mars?

[Heathen Hammer]

What?

Its rewind time:

The World Health Organization (WHO) is now haunted by a tweet it sent earlier this year when it cited Chinese health officials who claimed there had been no human transmissions of the novel coronavirus within the country yet.The Jan. 14 tweet came less than two months before WHO declared COVID-19 to be a global pandemic.
"Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China," the organization had said.
It also relied on information from Chinese health authorities who have been accused of obscuring facts and figures during the course of the outbreak.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/world-...on-coronavirus
Sounds like relying on claims from dictatorships like the ones in China or Ukraine makes WHO a very unreliable source of information.

How you manage to construe that reply out of what was posted is truly baffling.

What part of my snarky reply to his rationalization of American Democratic war crimes did you fail to grasp?

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Ah yes, WHO, the organization that spread misinformation that resulted with global pandemic on China's behest is now ultimate source of truth. For Our Democracy.

Bruh.
You call WHO China's puppet, so why would it criticize China's primary ally? If anything it being China's puppet would make it biased in favour of Russia, not against it.

[Heathen Hammer]

Bruh.
You call WHO China's puppet, so why would it criticize China's primary ally? If anything it being China's puppet would make it biased in favour of Russia, not against it.

A stripper will give lapdances to anyone who pays her, even if its people that hate each other.

[AqD]

Update on the banning of opposition political parties in Ukraine Schiller Institute

The Ukrainian Court has finally banned the last and largest of all the 12 political opposition parties, the Socialist Party of Ukraine, after the Administrative Court rejected the appeal of the SPU.

Good. Could use a cleansing in all NATO members too, eliminate all Kremlin influences.


Though it'd be best to just cut off their Internet and media. We don't need the mouth of sauron here.

its okay to bomb hospitals as long as you make a nice apology later.

You really don't get it do you?

Europe tolerates US because of the need of protection from Russia.

Much of Asia tolerates it because of China, but previously it was also for Russia. And it was Russia who set China on this anti-West imperialist path.


It's exactly because of one particular murderer and rapist, that we have to allow a brutal police who occasionally break laws. And yet here you are, arguing that murderer and rapist should share such a right and defending its existence. He doesn't need your help. He has been doing this for generations.

[Heathen Hammer]

Good. Could use a cleansing in all NATO members too, eliminate all Kremlin influences.


Though it'd be best to just cut off their Internet and media. We don't need the mouth of sauron here.

My dude, even Russia has opposition parties, as controlled as they are.
Zelensky literally reached ole Xi's levels of totalitarianism and you pretend that its some kind of democratic victory.
I mean your own "democratic" principles are worthless to you if you actually think this way.

You really don't get it do you?

Europe tolerates US because of the need of protection from Russia.

EU elites will tolerate anyone that benefits them, be it USA, Russia or alien invaders.
EU luddism in regards to nuclear power will keep Europe as Russia's for generations to come.

Much of Asia tolerates it because of China, but previously it was also for Russia. And it was Russia who set China on this anti-West imperialist path.

"Who was Kissinger?"

It's exactly because of one particular murderer and rapist, that we have to allow a brutal police who occasionally break laws. And yet here you are, arguing that murderer and rapist should share such a right and defending its existence. He doesn't need your help. He has been doing this for generations.

Indeed, you have described the Western financial elites perfectly, my friend.

[Cyclops]

So Putin is coming back into the grain export deal, there's no dirty bomb in Ukrainian held territory (but the Russian held plant is mysteriously offline), Ukrainian civilians are being forcibly relocated by Russians, the Russian ambassador is accusing the UK of being "too involved" in the war, but its still not a war. Must be hard for the Putin simps to keep their sanity at this point while regurgitating the talking points. "Isn't a war/why UK bully us/Russia stronk/we will freeze your babies/Ukraine is Satan"

Russia-Ukraine war: List of key events, day 253 | Russia-Ukraine war News | Al Jazeera

Russia looks exactly like a terror state at this point, exporting violence and the threat of violence to extort political results from its victims without regard for legality or any common propriety. I think it is only because it has nuclear weapons that it hasn't been listed as a state sponsor of terrorism. This nuclear extortion is really the only thing keeping Russia in the game at the moment, i think they should lose their nukes. Not sure how we can wangle that in the real world but if an opportunity arose we should take it.

[Kyriakos]

I am not seeing how this ends soon. Maybe the only chance for that would be a very notable loss for the democratic party in the midterms, coupled with a clear reason to read into it a public annoyance with lack of any peace initiative.
I also don't imagine how Ukraine manages to fully win, that is even if (and that is a huge "if") they got control of all Donbas and Crimea, they still wouldn't have anything to bargain with if they don't give up parts to Russia.
There's always the chance this will go nuclear at some point, and from there it's anyone's guess what will happen.

By the way, that russian Ken with the byzantine (then russian) bicephal eagle, is an awesome image

[conon394]

I also don't imagine how Ukraine manages to fully win, that is even if (and that is a huge "if") they got control of all Donbas and Crimea, they still wouldn't have anything to bargain with if they don't give up parts to Russia.
There's always the chance this will go nuclear at some point, and from there it's anyone's guess what will happen.

Well its probable that in reality Everyone knows in Ukraine that getting the Crimea back is probably going to have to bargained away. The repubs are not on track to win big enough to stop Biden from sustaining support for the rest of his term - we ain't no parliament.

[Sar1n]

I am not seeing how this ends soon. Maybe the only chance for that would be a very notable loss for the democratic party in the midterms, coupled with a clear reason to read into it a public annoyance with lack of any peace initiative.
I also don't imagine how Ukraine manages to fully win, that is even if (and that is a huge "if") they got control of all Donbas and Crimea, they still wouldn't have anything to bargain with if they don't give up parts to Russia.
There's always the chance this will go nuclear at some point, and from there it's anyone's guess what will happen.

By the way, that russian Ken with the byzantine (then russian) bicephal eagle, is an awesome image

Sevastopol is the most likely bargaining chip. Or they'll simply keep attacking Russian military targets within range until ceasefire is achieved.