Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

[Sar1n]

Its just an insane claim from a UN envoy, who happens to be a British lawyer and an activist, and given lack of actual sources we can assume she is basically just taking Zelensky's regime word regarding that subject.

Overthrowing an elected government is a coup, so why are you continue to build up on a premise that's been proven to be fake already?

I don't see what's insane about that claim. Terrorizing civilians by any means available was always Russia's chief weapon if the blitz failed. Rapes, massacres, wholesale destruction of cities and attacking critical civilian infrastructure...just look at Grozny or Aleppo, for example.

[Heathen Hammer]

I don't see what's insane about that claim. Terrorizing civilians by any means available was always Russia's chief weapon if the blitz failed.
Rapes, massacres, wholesale destruction of cities and attacking critical civilian infrastructure...just look at Grozny or Aleppo, for example.

Overall, Russia's conduct of war isn't in any major way different form what US or any other major conventional powers have been doing themselves, when it comes to critical infrastructure and bombings.
As for the baby-eating accusations, they tend to be based on unsubstantiated claims by other side in the conflict, which you seem to be giving benefit of the doubt for some totally unbiased reason.

[fkizz]

I don't see what's insane about that claim. Terrorizing civilians by any means available was always Russia's chief weapon if the blitz failed. Rapes, massacres, wholesale destruction of cities and attacking critical civilian infrastructure...just look at Grozny or Aleppo, for example.

Terror intimidation of civilian populaces into a feeling of helpness so they feel in the abyss. However if they are mentally strong to not be intimidated, the abyss gazes back, a philosopher said.
It must be intimidating to face an opponent who can keep compusure and willingness to fight after all that.

So fear effect here is acting as a double edged sword.

The rape is quite literal by this point.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-new...ry-strategy-un

While it's believable that rape happens during wartime, and therefore the claims of rape are probably true, I have to doubt the logistical abilities for russia to be able to supply viagra. They can barely supply socks and gear to the new mobilized. Viagra would be a caviar expense.

But I don't rule anything out.

(added after)

JFK having an affair with some Hollywood actress doesn't compare to Bill Clinton's record of putting sensual into inconsensual, all while Nixon's surveillance of Democrats doesn't really match the privacy violations of post-911 USA.

Same intents and impulses as ever, simply there is more leverage thanks to technology advancements.

[conon394]

While it's believable that rape happens during wartime, and therefore the claims of rape are probably true, I have to doubt the logistical abilities for russia to be able to supply viagra. They can barely supply socks and gear to the new mobilized. Viagra would be a caviar expense.

I have to agree. Looting, rape etc are rather often just product of lack of discipline or moral and or also lack of any consequences. And the Russian army probably has that in spades particularly since thay were sold a short victorious war etc. And at this point probably have a lot contract guys even their better soldiers who discovered thay were stop loss indefinably.

[PointOfViewGun]

Overthrowing an elected government is a coup, so why are you continue to build up on a premise that's been proven to be fake already?

Being voted out by the parliament due to massive public protests because the president disregards parliamentary votes isn't how we define coups. Why do you feel the need to alter definition of words to keep a false premise alive?

[Alastor]

An interesting article:
https://consortiumnews.com/2022/11/0...party-ukraine/

The last thing the U.S. and Europe need is a long war with Russia. Yet that’s just where Biden’s insistence on NATO enlargement to Ukraine has brought about.

The U.S. and Ukraine should accept three absolutely reasonable terms to end the war: Ukraine’s military neutrality; Russia’s de facto hold on Crimea, home to its Black Sea naval fleet since 1783; and a negotiated autonomy for the ethnic-Russian regions, as was called for in the Minsk Agreements but which Ukraine failed to implement.

Instead of this kind of sensible outcome, the Biden administration has repeatedly told Ukraine to fight on. It poured cold water on the negotiations in March, when Ukrainians were contemplating a negotiated end to the war but instead walked away from the negotiating table.

Ukraine is suffering grievously as a result, with its cities and infrastructure reduced to rubble, and tens of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers dying in the ensuing battles. For all of NATO’s vaunted weaponry, Russia has recently destroyed up to half of Ukraine’s energy infrastructure.

[conon394]

"and a negotiated autonomy for the ethnic-Russian regions, as was called for in the Minsk Agreements but which Ukraine failed to implement. "


Russia also failed to implement the Mink agreements.
https://cepa.org/article/dont-let-ru...sk-agreements/

Also you know polling before the Russia invention in the Donbas did not show a majority in favor of joining Russia and Crimea only by a sliver.

Also the link started out Tankie and went south fast when I hit the China stuff.

[Papay]

Being voted out by the parliament due to massive public protests because the president disregards parliamentary votes isn't how we define coups. Why do you feel the need to alter definition of words to keep a false premise alive?

List of people killed during the Revolution of Dignity - Wikipedia

There were 18 police officers killed during the protests the majority from bullets. In any civilized country in the world if protestors were shooting and killing police officers you would have lethal response

[Cyclops]

List of people killed during the Revolution of Dignity - Wikipedia

There were 18 police officers killed during the protests the majority from bullets. In any civilized country in the world if protestors were shooting and killing police officers you would have lethal response

Ukraine did not massacre protesters therefore Putin gets to carve up the state without a declaration of war? Cool.

Brigand trash should go to the wall. Russia is not acting as a state but as a criminal organization. The targeting of civilian infrastructure is a terrorist act. It is very specifically not a war crime as no war has been declared.

I would support my country arming Ukraine to the point it can retaliate against military targets in Russia. These garbage scumbags in charge need to be destroyed so they stop LARPing as the Golden Horde.

[PointOfViewGun]

List of people killed during the Revolution of Dignity - Wikipedia
There were 18 police officers killed during the protests the majority from bullets. In any civilized country in the world if protestors were shooting and killing police officers you would have lethal response

That has nothing to do with what happened back in 2014 not being a coup. We are not talking about police brutality. You can try to justify that an other day.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

The targeting of civilian infrastructure is a terrorist act.

No no, according to Russia, bombing military infrastructure (warships) is a terrorist act, bombing civilian infrastructure however is a-okay. Unless it's the Kerch strait bridge, then it's terrorism again.
Honestly I think Russia was just confused why one would bomb a military target when there's perfectly good civilian targets nearby.

[Alastor]

"and a negotiated autonomy for the ethnic-Russian regions, as was called for in the Minsk Agreements but which Ukraine failed to implement. "


Russia also failed to implement the Mink agreements.
https://cepa.org/article/dont-let-ru...sk-agreements/

Also you know polling before the Russia invention in the Donbas did not show a majority in favor of joining Russia and Crimea only by a sliver.

Also the link started out Tankie and went south fast when I hit the China stuff.

Accusations of Russia not following the Minsk agreement do little to alter the fact that Ukraine did not follow it. The whole point here is that Minsk was an attempt to de-escalate. You may say that Russia didn't want a de-escalation by not adhering to Minsk. So Russia is at fault. But the same rationale applies to Ukraine, meaning Ukraine is also at fault. Do remember I'm not blaming Ukraine alone for this war. I'm blaming both parties. That includes Russia and Ukraine, along with its backers in the US.

I don't know about that polling, nor would I trust that polling considering it would be done by Ukrainian authorities, or under their auspices. In either case the article mentions autonomy for the Donbas, not joining Russia. Sth Ukraine did, on paper, agree to.

Now as for the source being "Tankie" or whatever else. Well, naturally. Any source that doesn't follow the "narrative" has to be a funny buzzword of some sort. Irrespectively of how much sense it makes. And that source often makes a great deal of sense.

[conon394]

Accusations of Russia not following the Minsk agreement do little to alter the fact that Ukraine did not follow it. The whole point here is that Minsk was an attempt to de-escalate. You may say that Russia didn't want a de-escalation by not adhering to Minsk. So Russia is at fault. But the same rationale applies to Ukraine, meaning Ukraine is also at fault. Do remember I'm not blaming Ukraine alone for this war. I'm blaming both parties. That includes Russia and Ukraine, along with its backers in the US.

My was rather the Minsk accords were a failure. Pointing to them as mystical solution is simply a waste of time. I not interested really in why they failed or who jumped first or did more. The thing is neither side was interested in stopping the failure. Also Putin's expanded annexations kinda render them moot anyway.

I don't know about that polling, nor would I trust that polling considering it would be done by Ukrainian authorities, or under their auspices. In either case the article mentions autonomy for the Donbas, not joining Russia. Sth Ukraine did, on paper, agree to.

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2...n-one-country/

I dunno Pew is not exactly a Ukrainian puppet organization. Seems clear Crimea is the real outlier.

Now as for the source being "Tankie" or whatever else. Well, naturally. Any source that doesn't follow the "narrative" has to be a funny buzzword of some sort. Irrespectively of how much sense it makes. And that source often makes a great deal of sense.

Its tankie in the sense that it devolves only the US has agency. It more obvious in the China/Taiwan parts.

For example citing Henry Kissinger is always a bad sign a man who should be on trial in Hauge and presided over one of the most colossal blunder in US foreign policy (Nixon to China) I'm going to mistrust whaever you type.

But

"From the start of his presidency, Biden starkly curtailed diplomatic contacts with China, stirred up new controversies regarding America’s long-standing One China policy, repeatedly called for greater arms sales to Taiwan, and implemented a global export ban on high-tech to China. Both parties have rallied to this destabilizing anti-China policy, but the cost is further destabilization of the world, and also the U.S. economy.
From the start of his presidency, Biden starkly curtailed diplomatic contacts with China, stirred up new controversies regarding America’s long-standing One China policy, repeatedly called for greater arms sales to Taiwan, and implemented a global export ban on high-tech to China. Both parties have rallied to this destabilizing anti-China policy, but the cost is further destabilization of the world, and also the U.S. economy. "

The author thinks our stance on One China was handed down by baby Jesus or something. Bidens action on China are eminently rational. Given Tiawans import in the production of chips the US can rightly no longer pretend at ambiguity to allow China to absorb Taiwan would be suicidal. But no sense that partially driving US action is China nullifying of the deal around Hong Kong, Events in Xinjiang, China ever expanding economic claims of the South China sea. And the simple economic reality that say the fantasy that allowed Bush Sr and Clinton to open the WTO was a blunder and needs to walked back.

"and implemented a global export ban on high-tech to China"

About time. For example the US shot itself in the head with allowing China into the WTO when it did a for what? I mean last I checked the profits of say Ford or GM or Caterpillar and umm I can't find the export destination for American manufacturing that was supposed to the great Chinese market...

In any case back to Russia

Umm citing handshake deal with a dead country about NATO says noting about Russia.

Also of course breezes by Transnistria (Moldavia made Russia do that) and say Russia ignoring the Budapest Accords.

[Alastor]

Its tankie in the sense that it devolves only the US has agency.

Agency is a matter of power. It's not a tankie argument to claim that and if anything it is disingenuous to evaluate US agency on the same level as that of other actors. The US has far greater power and far more means, as such their agency is eminently consequential to the point where it supersedes the agency of most others.

[Stario]

At this point Ukraine army has been effectively defeated. They have suffered so large looses they cannot replace them. Unlike Russia who can easily replace losses due to them being so large.
Hence why Russia was able to stabilise front; Ukraine simply hasn't got the manpower to go on the offensive anymore.
And in 4-5 weeks when ground freezes over Russia will invade and mop up Ukraine unless NATO/USA put boots in Ukraine -such action will almost certainly lead to war between USA and Russia.
In fact there are reports of US military under one-star in Ukraine in last 24hrs.
Also report that atleast 40% of weapons sent to Ukraine aren't making it to the Ukraine army, and instead are being sold of around the world. Talk about $billions$ wasted!!!

[PointOfViewGun]

Accusations of Russia not following the Minsk agreement do little to alter the fact that Ukraine did not follow it. The whole point here is that Minsk was an attempt to de-escalate. You may say that Russia didn't want a de-escalation by not adhering to Minsk. So Russia is at fault. But the same rationale applies to Ukraine, meaning Ukraine is also at fault. Do remember I'm not blaming Ukraine alone for this war. I'm blaming both parties. That includes Russia and Ukraine, along with its backers in the US.
I don't know about that polling, nor would I trust that polling considering it would be done by Ukrainian authorities, or under their auspices. In either case the article mentions autonomy for the Donbas, not joining Russia. Sth Ukraine did, on paper, agree to.
Now as for the source being "Tankie" or whatever else. Well, naturally. Any source that doesn't follow the "narrative" has to be a funny buzzword of some sort. Irrespectively of how much sense it makes. And that source often makes a great deal of sense.

What specific part of the Minsk agreements did Ukraine violate?

At this point Ukraine army has been effectively defeated. They have suffered so large looses they cannot replace them. Unlike Russia who can easily replace losses due to them being so large.
Hence why Russia was able to stabilise front; Ukraine simply hasn't got the manpower to go on the offensive anymore.
And in 4-5 weeks when ground freezes over Russia will invade and mop up Ukraine unless NATO/USA put boots in Ukraine -such action will almost certainly lead to war between USA and Russia.
In fact there are reports of US military under one-star in Ukraine in last 24hrs.
Also report that atleast 40% of weapons sent to Ukraine aren't making it to the Ukraine army, and instead are being sold of around the world. Talk about $billions$ wasted!!!

Is this happening in Mars?

[Mithradates]

Also report that atleast 40% of weapons sent to Ukraine aren't making it to the Ukraine army, and instead are being sold of around the world. Talk about $billions$ wasted!!!

I would love to see that report.

[conon394]

Hence why Russia was able to stabilize front; Ukraine simply hasn't got the manpower to go on the offensive anymore.

I do believe that is called the local weather.

In fact there are reports of US military under one-star in Ukraine in last 24hrs.
Also report that atleast 40% of weapons sent to Ukraine aren't making it to the Ukraine army, and instead are being sold of around the world. Talk about $billions$ wasted!!!

You do have something beside Russian Mil bloggers to support this ?

[Stario]

To add to what I said it is reported roughly half of Ukranian energy infrastructure is now caput!
This will mean entire cities will need to be evacuated come Decembers harsh winter, or freeze to death.
Point being Ukraine is in very bad shape as far as it's fighting capacity, Ukraine is done!.

[conon394]

Agency is a matter of power. It's not a tankie argument to claim that and if anything it is disingenuous to evaluate US agency on the same level as that of other actors. The US has far greater power and far more means, as such their agency is eminently consequential to the point where it supersedes the agency of most others.

That is true in some ways but your link is only interested in asserting absolute US agency and seeming disinterested in why it might use as a reaction not just out of the blue.

Also I stand by the fact that supposed promises to a dead state are not relevant (the NATO thing) Citing than and than just walking past the Budapest accords is rather biased in my view.