View Poll Results: Whom do you support and to what extent?

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  • I support Ukraine fully.

    103 69.59%
  • I support Russia fully.

    15 10.14%
  • I only support Russia's claim over Crimea.

    4 2.70%
  • I only support Russia's claim over Crimea and Donbass (Luhansk and Donetsk regions).

    11 7.43%
  • Not sure.

    7 4.73%
  • I don't care.

    8 5.41%

Thread: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

  1. #5321
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Sar1n View Post
    Really? Someone thought that? India was taking a pure opportunistic stance from the beginning.
    They are while quietly canceling Russian military deals for Western ones, but I've seen them portrayed in the media and even in Russo-Ukraine War discussions on Twitter/reddit as being more pro-Russian because of them buying Russian oil and generally being quiet regarding Ukraine conflict.

  2. #5322
    Hobbes's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Papay what the hell are you talking about bro? 80% of Ukraine's army destroyed? Do you understand what this means? Do you like wake up in the morning, take a few sips of coffee and go "man there goes 80% of my coffee"? Is that what your life is like? Do you declare bankruptcy every time you shop for groceries?

    BLM - ANTIFA - A.C.A.B. - ANARCHY - ANTI-NATIONALISM

  3. #5323
    Papay's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Roma_Victrix View Post
    LOL. If 80% of Ukraine's military forces were obliterated then Ukraine would have already surrendered, been totally conquered, or clinging to its last westernmost fragments of territory like Lviv and its immediate surroundings. That's a ludicrous figure given how the Ukrainians just retook the region around Kharkiv. Statements like this are just childish obfuscation stemming from Russian disillusionment after getting creamed by a smaller country inhabited by people who they viewed as inferiors (historically referring to Ukrainians as "Little Russians", Малороссы).

    In either case, the Russian winter is coming, but so long as Putin remains in power the Russians will undoubtedly come back in force with the spring of 2023. He has already dug his hole too deep and Zelenskyy isn't going to accept any negotiated deal that doesn't include Crimea at this point. Also, the Russian navy's grip on the Black Sea has waned despite their land forces encircling the Azov.
    When i say military force a mean the original military force that existed before the war. Since then Zelensky has declared mobilization and the losses were replenished

  4. #5324
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Papay View Post
    When i say military force a mean the original military force that existed before the war. Since then Zelensky has declared mobilization and the losses were replenished
    Mobilization gives you men. Not the equipment that goes with them.

  5. #5325

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Mobilization gives you men. Not the equipment that goes with them.
    Nor trained crews, which is currently the most limiting factor (I think) for both sides. Had 80% of initial force been destroyed, Ukraine wouldn't have enough trained artillerymen and other specialists to hold the line the way it did.

  6. #5326
    Papay's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Sar1n View Post
    Nor trained crews, which is currently the most limiting factor (I think) for both sides. Had 80% of initial force been destroyed, Ukraine wouldn't have enough trained artillerymen and other specialists to hold the line the way it did.
    They have unlimited help from the west. I somewhere read that HIMARS are manned by Americans but i might be wrong

  7. #5327

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Papay View Post
    The data i showed you are enough to prove that the original Ukrainian army is largely destroyed. If you believe that 80% is a high percentage then you must offer an alternative
    No, it didn't show that. You are merely resorting to lying about your own sources now as the numbers they gave did not even come close to your claimed number. Why are you resorting to lying about something so obvious?
    The Armenian Issue

  8. #5328

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    No, it didn't show that. You are merely resorting to lying about your own sources now as the numbers they gave did not even come close to your claimed number. Why are you resorting to lying about something so obvious?
    Because the truth is not favorable to the Russian narrative about military genius superman Putin easily crushing the Ukrainians under his heel, that's why.

  9. #5329
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    If papay's numbers are correct and 80% are gone, that must mean there are only 460% left! Luckily though the Russians have lost 1030% of their force, so this may be over soon.

  10. #5330
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Morticia Iunia Bruti View Post
    You should quote General Zorn completely and not shortening it to the parts which fits your pro-Russia narrativ, even its the typical style of Kremlin propaganda
    I recommend you avoid insults and stick to the facts.
    I quoted the FOCUS’s interview.
    The synopsis and the title of the FOCUS’s interview are both crystal clear,

    Title
    :
    Bundeswehr-General sieht keine echte Gegenoffensive in der Ukraine (Bundeswehr general sees no real counteroffensive in Ukraine)

    Synopsis
    (a summary which gives readers an overview of the main points) is,

    Das Wichtigste

    -Die Gegenoffensive der Ukraine und die daraus resultierenden Rückeroberungen sind derzeit in aller Munde.
    -Doch Bundeswehr-General Zorn sieht noch keine Gegenoffensive.
    -Außerdem verteidigt er die deutschen Waffenlieferungen - und warnt davor, noch mehr zu schicken.

    The most important
    -Everyone is currently talking about Ukraine's counteroffensive and the resulting recaptures.
    -But German Army General Zorn doesn't see a counteroffensive yet.
    - He also defends German arms deliveries - and warns against sending more
    ----
    And he added,” Everything we give away, we need back,”

    In fact, Germany is unwilling to allow Ukraine to become the Israel of Europe.“Germany must become the best equipped armed force in Europe", says Scholze. TV5 Monde: L
    'Allemagne doit devenir "la force armée la mieux équipée d'Europe" (Scholz)
    “Nous, Européens, devons assumer nettement plus de responsabilités au sein de l'Otan". Notre armée doit devenir le pilier de la défense conventionnelle en Europe”
    "We, Europeans, must assume significantly more responsibility within NATO. Our army must become the pillar of conventional defense in Europe".
    ----
    A few days ago (September 14) I wrote that a report (commissioned by Zelensky, and co-authored by the former NATO secretary general Rasmussen) put a surreal proposal on table, Long-term military guarantees from west would protect Ukraine
    U
    kraine’s allies
    should commit to legally binding large-scale weapons transfers and multi-decade investment in the country’s defences…the guarantees, the report suggests, should not require Ukraine to limit the size or strength of its armed forces, or to adopt a position of neutrality.
    I concluded then “To sum up, the US intends, from a military point of view, to turn Ukraine into the Israel of Europe”.
    What I said should not come as a surprise to anyone because Zelensky had already before confessed his ambition to become the leader of a new Israel Zelenskyy says wants Ukraine to become a 'big Israel'

    An interesting article published yesterday refers to the fact that the US no longer invests solely in Israel on a large scale, and that must cause Israel concern. The author is a Lebanese American professor of political science at California State University Ukraine Is the New Israel

    According to the UE Hungary is no longer a full democracy but an electoral autocracy.
    Reacting to the news, Hungary's Foreign Affairs Minister Péter Szijjártó called the report an "insult" to the Hungarian people
    .
    Hungary is battling to persuade the EU Commission to release 4.64bn euros in Covid recovery funds, frozen for more than a year. Hungary tries to unlock funds frozen amid EU disciplinary
    …while questions remain over a potential €24.3bn six-year funding programme to upgrade its national infrastructure
    As you may remember, a few months back, last February, In opposing autocracy, EU wins landmark case against Poland and Hungary
    The Commission already froze coronavirus-related recovery funds worth €36 billion for Poland and €7 billion for Hungary
    But that was a “long time” ago, wasn’t it? the war works miracles and turns autocracies into democratic regimes: the funds for Poland have already been released: Poland is no more an autocracy: the country has proven itself as a critical US ally in the war between NATO and Russia.
    And now, European Commission to propose EU funding cut for Hungary
    I have a suggestion: Europe could divert the Hungarian EU funds to the country Ursula describes as “a very robust presidential-parliamentary democracy” (sic)
    The European citizens are convinced that we must prepare for a wartime economy, and we are asked to make collective sacrifices. This is very true…well, for the average European citizen

    But let's see-in this poor country, for example, the profits of the largest companies in the PSI 20 (P. Stock Index) have reached, by the 1st semester of 2022, 75% of 2021. The PSI 20 increased 345 points or 6.19% since the beginning of 2022 Portugal Stock Market (PSI20) - 2022 Data - Trading Economics
    In France, Record corporate profits in France
    In Germany, big companies announced record profits. Germany Corporate Profits - 2022 Data - 2023 Forecast
    BMW profits rise 75% to 13.2 billion euros - Npm News
    Spain’s largest bank said underlying profit rose 16 per cent compared with the same period last year Santander profits hit record level Financial Times
    --
    Neoliberalism does not mean less state. It is the state protecting shareholders, corporations, and destroying the very ability of the labor force to reproduce, which lacks the bare minimum, let alone the essential and deserving dignity we all should have as human beings.
    If we say that behind the war in Ukraine the neoliberal-imperialist globalization is also at stake, we are not far from the truth. Since a long time ago, a significant part of Ukraine's agricultural fields has already been sold to foreign multinationals. Who Owns Agricultural Land in Ukraine? | The Oakland Institute
    Not only that. Already in 2021, Ukraine’s lithium wealth was drawing western global/corporate attention: European Lithium to buy Ukrainian lithium mines in a year ghgfh

    Meanwhile, at the behest of Ursula, for the common citizen sea baths and cold water, while the prices of essential goods are rising every day. Europeans worry cost of living crisis will cause social unrest-Survey
    Many are already struggling to cope; having to draw from savings or skip meals, particularly among disengaged and low-trust segments of the population
    Relevant is also the clear refusal of most countries to adopt the unilateral sanctions that the West has imposed on Russia: only 54 out of 193 UN member countries - only 28% - have signed a declaration against Russia on the situation in Ukraine Joint Statement on Six Months of Russia's Full-Scale Invasion 24.08.2022
    That’s probably the reason why US authorities are displeased with the lack of "significant effects" by the results of sanctions imposed on Russia. US disappointment with low sanction effectiveness
    Last edited by Ludicus; September 17, 2022 at 02:26 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  11. #5331

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    If papay's numbers are correct and 80% are gone, that must mean there are only 460% left! Luckily though the Russians have lost 1030% of their force, so this may be over soon.
    You joke, but that's actually not unheard of. Two examples would be the American Civil War (where both the Union and Confederacy suffered many times the small pre-war US Army numbers in casualties) and Britain in WWI (where the professional British Army was almost entirely depleted by early 1915, forcing a shift to volunteers and later conscripts).

  12. #5332
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    The German Empire should have won that war. Sorry. What misery and destruction .

  13. #5333

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    I recommend you avoid insults and stick to the facts.
    No insults there. You just haven't been able counter any criticism directed at your defense of Russia's crimes.
    The Armenian Issue

  14. #5334

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    What I said should not come as a surprise to anyone because Zelensky had already before confessed his ambition to become the leader of a new Israel Zelenskyy says wants Ukraine to become a 'big Israel'
    You could be more subtle and just use the triple parentheses when writing Zelensky.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  15. #5335
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Ludicus, what argument are you even trying to make by bringing up Israel? I don’t understand at all. Do you see being like Israel, militarily, as a negative? Why?

  16. #5336

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Do you see being like Israel, militarily, as a negative?
    It's worse than that. You should read that Al Jazeera article he cited:

    Zelenskyy, who is Jewish, has on several occasions stressed the importance of maintaining close ties with Israel...
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  17. #5337
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    My god, he deserves an invasion just for that!

  18. #5338

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    https://www.newsweek.com/russia-puti...ap-isw-1743960

    Russian forces are continuing to prioritize "meaningless" offensive operations in Ukraine's east instead of focusing on defending against Ukrainian's advancing counteroffensives in the eastern Kharkiv region, according to a leading think tank.
    Institute for the Study of War said Russian troops are attacking Bakhmut and villages near Donetsk City that are "of emotional significance to pro-war residents of the Donetsk People's Republic (DNR) but little other importance," in an assessment on Saturday.
    They appear to be directing "some of the very limited reserves available in Ukraine to these efforts rather than to the vulnerable Russian defensive lines hastily thrown up along the Oskil River in eastern Kharkiv Oblast," ISW added.
    As I understand it, this is because there really isn't such a thing as the Russian Army, rather number of separate armies. The ones around the Bakhmut area are mercenaries, and they are paid from looting. So they have some degree of motivation to keep going forward as long as they can to keep looting, while the rest of the Russian armies (north and south) have little to no motivation and so are running away leaving huge amounts of weapons and equipment behind.

  19. #5339
    AqD's Avatar 。◕‿◕。
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Papay View Post
    They have unlimited help from the west.
    Meanwhile Russia will receive no help from anyone, not even their so-called friends, who are also their geopolitical rivals. All countries stand to benefit from the fall of Russia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    How does it end? Its likely Putin will have less than when he started very soon.
    I don't think his fate is still relevant. Instead it's the 30% of pro war Russian civilians we'll have to deal with:

    Quote Originally Posted by Coughdrop addict View Post
    Top Kremlin propagandist Vladimir Solovyov (the bruised face guy) accidentally said the quiet part out loud:

    Solovyov warned that no matter what, there would be no peace deal with Ukraine: “There won’t be a Minsk-3… The frontline can breathe, there can be local failures, there could be excited screams coming from Kharkiv and Kyiv. That won’t change our general hard line… we’ll suffocate this serpent. There are no other options… We’ll bury as many of them as we need to.”
    Locking them up would obviously require too much space for jail.

  20. #5340
    Papay's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    The Ukrainian counter-offensive has lost steam and ended. The army will be capable of staging of new counter-offensive after 6 months. We will see how Russian army will react in the meantime

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