View Poll Results: Whom do you support and to what extent?

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  • I support Ukraine fully.

    103 69.59%
  • I support Russia fully.

    15 10.14%
  • I only support Russia's claim over Crimea.

    4 2.70%
  • I only support Russia's claim over Crimea and Donbass (Luhansk and Donetsk regions).

    11 7.43%
  • Not sure.

    7 4.73%
  • I don't care.

    8 5.41%

Thread: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

  1. #5221

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Ludicus, Russia has been exercising nuclear attack on Poland at least since 2013 (Zapad 2013; ie: before Maidan and Crimea). There were no stationary NATO forces in Poland back then. But as i understand, Poland is the warmonger... Like in 1939?
    And how big are those dangerous Nato forces on the Eastern Flank? 20 k? Mostly light infantry? Is that a serious existential threat to Russia? How about considering existential threats that almost 100 mln people in central-eastern Europe are facing because of russian neo-imperialism? Their life doesnt matter i guess.

    While i normally detest PiS Government, they are 100% about german guilt in creating current situation in Europe. Energy crisis is a result of blind and absolutely stupid dependency on russian gas - which we have in EU thanks to Germans.

  2. #5222
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Not being able to invade neighbours at will is what they see as an existential threat.

  3. #5223
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    They can't sell anything other than gas &oil. It's all they have. Some USP basically called them out as a "gas station". It's sad, but I fear it's true. ---> So to protect their future, they have to raid their neighbors... as you do (sarcasm).
    Last edited by swabian; September 11, 2022 at 02:38 AM.

  4. #5224
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Unfortunately, this war will last a long time yet.
    Too bad about that seems like it could end any time Putin wanted it too.

    So otherwise Poland is the bad guy now? Really?

    But now if Russia has no agency - it has to act like a cornered wombat all the time when it feelings are hurt... so Poland rearming and wanting a permanent NATO presence is bad and would provoke Russia, that implies nobody can really fill the terms of the so called peace deal the US supposedly killed because nobody could provided security guarantees to the Ukraine because that would provoke Russia...

    Your links breathlessly describe some NATO build up on Russia boarder please date with particular reference to 2008 and 2014 and thus indicate a reaction to Putin's actions.

    Anyways back to Poland I imagine you could assemble a comparable list of red meat political slaps from any country around election time and any one that feels like the EU deal is not in it favor at the moment.If did back a few years how many nice things would Greece be saying about the EU or Germany?

    --------------------


    So to protect their future, they have to raid their neighbors... as you do
    Leaving a lot ammunition and equipment laying about though can't have been part of the plan.
    Last edited by conon394; September 11, 2022 at 06:29 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  5. #5225
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post



    Leaving a lot ammunition and equipment laying about though can't have been part of the plan.

    Are you kidding me? Like that wasn't obvious. My friend, we both can't imagine artilliery war, so that , do you hear me?

    These guys need more ing ammo. What do you think you're dealing with? It's Russia!

  6. #5226
    Mithradates's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    The 200th day.



    Russian Foreign Minister says Russia not opposed to negotiations on background of Ukraine’s counteroffensive

    Might have something to do with that 10,000 Russian troops encircled in a cauldron south-east of Izyum, they are negotiating surrender to Ukraine.

    Ukraine has retaken more than 3,000 square kilometers of territory this month, unbelievable.

    I bet this was the doing of Putin, this is what happens when a leader with no military experience tries to take control.


  7. #5227

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    With the latest abandoned Russian armored vehicles in its retreat, Russia is likely the largest arms exporter to Ukraine at this moment.
    The Armenian Issue

  8. #5228
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    I don't think it's wise to underestimatee those s. I know, we've overestimated them for long, but the damage they are dealing, even to their own country, is tremendous. They ing eat through officers, generals, people. They are relentless. And with this psychopath at the top... nah, this is bad. This is really bad.

  9. #5229

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    I don't think it's wise to underestimatee those s. I know, we've overestimated them for long, but the damage they are dealing, even to their own country, is tremendous. They ing eat through officers, generals, people. They are relentless. And with this psychopath at the top... nah, this is bad. This is really bad.
    Actually, I don't think Putin cares that much. He's set things up so he can abandon pretty much all of Ukraine without issue. Consider that the plans for annexation have been repeatedly delayed or rescheduled to avoid making any concrete commitments.

  10. #5230

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    The inevitable "Hitler/Putin reacts to the Kharkiv counteroffensive" Downfall parody

    Ignore List (to save time):

    Exarch, Coughdrop addict

  11. #5231

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    With the latest abandoned Russian armored vehicles in its retreat, Russia is likely the largest arms exporter to Ukraine at this moment.
    Just from the videos I've seen, it looks like at least couple hundred, from APCs to tanks, SPGs and even some mobile SAMs.

    This isn't a retreat but a rout.

  12. #5232

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    To be honest I was being on the safe side and not assuming continued utter incompetence and failure on Russian side but the latest developments is pushing that. We can not claim its a tactical withdrawal when Russians leave behind so much usable equipment.
    The Armenian Issue

  13. #5233
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    The inevitable "Hitler/Putin reacts to the Kharkiv counteroffensive" Downfall parody
    Cast Director and everyone involved in the original movie deserve extra credit for creating what can always be a beyond funny meme.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  14. #5234
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Not being able to invade neighbours at will is what they see as an existential threat.
    Just out curiosity...talking about existential threats.

    According to the Atlantic Council, Russia
    during the last two decades, Israel found ways of growing closer to Russia… In 2014, Israel refused to denounce Russia’s annexation of Crimea despite US pressure. Furthermore, since the beginning of the war in Ukraine, Israel has again refused to supply Ukraine with military aid…
    The current tension around the Jewish Agency might be diffused if Benjamin Netanyahu is reelected on November 1, given his close relationship with the Russian leader.
    Last February, Netanyahu tells government to be quiet on Russia.
    In his first statement on the conflict, former prime minister warns against taking positions on the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
    Putin stars in Israeli election campaigns

    For years, we have led a balanced and responsible relationship with Russia. In the last few days, I have become worried that what we have built for years is crumbling right before our eyes over the last few weeks. This happens because of a combination of amateurism, irresponsibility and arrogance," warned Netanyahu.
    Netanyahu prepares for a comeback in Israel's next elections
    The coalition’s collapse is in large part the result of Netanyahu’s efforts to encourage coalition members uncomfortable with its ideological diversity to jump ship.
    Now, let's about Hungary. Hungary is about 85% dependent on Russian gas. For Orban, the existential threat is the lack of gas. Hungary buys Russian gas five times cheaper than market price in Europe, and the bilateral agreement has been extended until 2036. "Europe shot itself in the lungs", says Orban.

    The EU criticises the new Hungarian-Russian gas deal
    In conclusion, for Netanyahu the real security threat facing Israel is Iran; ergo, Russia is a friendly state. For Orban, the existential threat is the lack of Russian gas; ergo, Russia is a friendly state. How does Orban's realpolitik differ from Netanyahu's?

    I would like to hear your comments on this.

    ------
    About the war. Bruno Carvalho, from Donbass (Excerpts)

    Roughly translated

    In the last few days I have kept silent about the Ukrainian counteroffensive in the Izium area because the information I was receiving was very contradictory. The time has come to make a brief analysis of what happened, based on the different elements that I have been collecting in the last few days.

    (...) According to the British newspaper The Guardian, in addition to the military diversionary maneuver in Kherson and Zaporozhzhia, there was also a disinformation operation. Never in a war has propaganda made itself felt as in this one and Ukraine is undoubtedly winning that war against Russia in the Western media. Some of the best media agencies on the planet are working for the Ukrainian forces. For example, researchers at the University of Adelaide (Australia) published a paper on the activity of fake Twitter accounts related to the Ukrainian conflict https://arxiv.org/pdf/2208.07038.pdf
    Of the nearly five million tweets on this social network between February 23 and March 8, 60-80% were shared by fake accounts. About 90% of those messages were pro-Ukraine.

    (...) It seems clear that Ukrainian forces managed to distract Russian troops with a diversionary maneuver in Kherson and Zaporozhzhia. This caused Russia to bring a large number of units into that region of Ukraine. These forces were vastly outnumbered by Ukrainian troops in the Kharkov region...
    (...) The fact is that, from the military point of view, Ukraine has won an important victory.
    Contrary to what some commentators say, it will not change the course of the war.
    But with the onset of winter and the waning attention of Europeans and Americans, especially with the consequences of sanctions on Russia in the rising cost of living and energy, this victory allows an oxygen balloon in Ukraine's claims to receive more weaponry from its allies”.
    Let's wait and see how it goes.
    Last edited by Ludicus; September 12, 2022 at 12:14 PM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
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  15. #5235
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Just out curiosity...talking about existential threats.

    According to the Atlantic Council, Russia
    Last February, Netanyahu tells government to be quiet on Russia.
    Not sure of the point you're attempting to make here. Israel has been providing humanitarian aid to Ukraine, has repeatedly condemned Russia's invasion and voted against Russia at the UN multiple times, and prominent Likud (Netanyahu's party) member Nir Barkat visited Ukraine and expressed solidarity, as well as stating that it's about time we side fully with Ukraine.


    Haven't seen a single political campaign or poster talk about Putin.


    He can prepare as much as he wants, polls show he still falls short of a majority. Regardless Ludi, I did not realise you were such an avid supporter of Netanyahu.
    If you think bringing up Netanyahu is somehow going to convince me, you must not know my stance on Israeli politics very well. I think the guy is a grifter and a hack, who changes his colours whenever it suits him.

    Now, let's about Hungary. Hungary is about 85% dependent on Russian gas. For Orban, the existential threat is the lack of gas. Hungary buys Russian gas five times cheaper than market price in Europe, and the bilateral agreement has been extended until 2036. "Europe shot itself in the lungs", says Orban.

    The EU criticises the new Hungarian-Russian gas deal
    There are things more important than gas prices.
    In conclusion, for Netanyahu the real security threat facing Israel is Iran; ergo, Russia is a friendly state.
    (Russia is Iran's primary ally)
    For Netanyahu the real security threat is prison.

  16. #5236
    Mithradates's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Now, let's about Hungary. Hungary is about 85% dependent on Russian gas. For Orban, the existential threat is the lack of gas. Hungary buys Russian gas five times cheaper than market price in Europe, and the bilateral agreement has been extended until 2036. "Europe shot itself in the lungs", says Orban.
    Putin said that, and it is a half-truth propaganda BS.

    At that exact moment when he said that it was technically true, but it is not related to some extra Russian price discount, it is because market prices have risen five to seven times from the year before, and according to the Russian gas contract the price followes the Dutch TTF exchange price with a time delay of (a good) couple of months.
    Hungary still received gas back then for a fifth of the gas price on the stock exchange, but the drift in market prices will cach up. For this reason, if the stock market price falls later, Hungary will keep paying much more than the at that time current market price for a while.

  17. #5237
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Russian politicians asking Putin to step down and be tried with treason: https://theins.ru/en/news/254897


    What do people think? I believe it's time for the West to back Putin on his seat in exchange of cheap energy to fund rebuilding projects. His punishment should be to become our best friend and help the West undermining his own country, not that he didn't do a great job but that was unintentional and improvements can be made.

    In exchange we can also allow all dirty money to be transferred out of Russia, and buying as many yachts as they want so long as those are made in the West.

  18. #5238
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    It seems clear that Ukrainian forces managed to distract Russian troops with a diversionary maneuver in Kherson and Zaporozhzhia. This caused Russia to bring a large number of units into that region of Ukraine. These forces were vastly outnumbered by Ukrainian troops in the Kharkov region...
    That would seem to incorrect the offensive in the south is real its just harder - no diversion only. The Russian Collapse is certainly real as is its continuing AWOL air force.

    "These forces were vastly outnumbered by Ukrainian troops in the Kharkov region..."

    So umm that means the Ukraine can deploy mas in at least 2 area's operation and Russia cannot.

    "Contrary to what some commentators say, it will not change the course of the war."

    Nope routes never do clearly Putin has a master 3rd or 4th plan with his multi dimensional chess game.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  19. #5239
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Russia victoriously retreats and leaves behind valuable equipment to distract the Ukrainians, who are forced to advance. A brilliant move. A few more victories like that and the front will be in Moscow.

  20. #5240
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Ukrainian forces outnumbered Russians by eight to one in last week's counter-attack in the Kharkiv region, Russia's top occupation official there says.

    I'm having a hard time believing this could be due to a 'diversion' in the South. Surely the Russians have satellite and aerial reconnaissance. I'd really like a proper explanation for this, because the 'diversion' theory would require an intelligence and/or command failure of literally astounding proportions.
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

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