Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

[Heathen Hammer]

Yeah, its pretty stupid even from Putin.

Its literally a claim made by some British corporate journos. It deserves to be not trusted, just like claims made by RT about Ukraine or NATO.

I believe this is the first big one.

I recall reading promises of those as far as April.

Right, to give Putin the long-awaited excuse so that he can finally mobilize, that would be the smart thing.

He already has that excuse. The only reason he hasn't done so yet, is because he doesn't have to.

[Sar1n]

I recall reading promises of those as far as April.

Just a part of information warfare. Y'know, like Russia kept saying they won't invade.

[Septentrionalis]

I don't think Ukraine shelling reactors of nuclear power plants or firing cluster munitions above residential areas hampers Russian war effort, it just makes Russia's job at making themselves the good guys in this conflict significantly easier.

I cannot believe that no one before me took issue with the part I emboldened here. That has to be one of the funniest things said in this thread in its sheer delusion, denial, or misplaced optimism. As if the jury was still out on who is the bad guy in this conflict.

I guess some supporters of Kremlin are not aware how profoundly this aggression has tarnished Russia's reputation. Alternatively, they are desperately clutching to an unlikely scenario that people will somehow make a full U turn and come to think that Ukraine somehow deserved this genocidal action in the hands of a country that is ever more succumbing to a totalitarian rule.

[Mithradates]

Its literally a claim made by some British corporate journos. It deserves to be not trusted, just like claims made by RT about Ukraine or NATO.

Yeah, I know, "Nobody is right, everybody lies."

Like this:

On the afternoon of July 17, 2014, Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, scheduled from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, crashed near the Russian-Ukrainian border in the Donetsk region. The plane's 283 passengers and 15 crew members lost their lives. It was the deadliest air disaster since the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

The most likely explanation for the tragedy is that pro-Russian separatists shot down the plane because they thought it was a Ukrainian military vehicle, but the Russians communicated that the culprits were Ukrainians. The latter is not so surprising, but after the tragedy, many theories came to light from several official Russian sources, from the most obvious propaganda to the most amazing conspiracy theories. The official narrative, for example, highlighted among the various ideas that the plane was already carrying dead bodies and that the tragedy was staged to show the Russians and pro-Russian separatists in a bad light.

The goal of the Russians was not to make people believe the Russian information, but to discredit the Ukrainian information.

Russian propaganda 101

I recall reading promises of those as far as April.

Well, now it is happening. Cant wait to hear how Russia will achieve victory after victory... closer and closer to the Russian border.

He already has that excuse. The only reason he hasn't done so yet, is because he doesn't have to.

lol no, he does not have an excuse.
There is no war, remember?

[Heathen Hammer]

.

The goal of the Russians was not to make people believe the Russian information, but to discredit the Ukrainian information.

Russian propaganda 101

"Russian media evil and lying, Ukrainian/Western media is good and correct 100%".
Okay lol.

Well, now it is happening. Cant wait to hear how Russia will achieve victory after victory... closer and closer to the Russian border.

Again, something we've been hearing since March/April.

lol no, he does not have an excuse.
There is no war, remember?

That's just semantics. He can still call for mobilization without formally declaring war.

I cannot believe that no one before me took issue with the part I emboldened here. That has to be one of the funniest things said in this thread in its sheer delusion, denial, or misplaced optimism. As if the jury was still out on who is the bad guy in this conflict.

I guess some supporters of Kremlin are not aware how profoundly this aggression has tarnished Russia's reputation. Alternatively, they are desperately clutching to an unlikely scenario that people will somehow make a full U turn and come to think that Ukraine somehow deserved this genocidal action in the hands of a country that is ever more succumbing to a totalitarian rule.

Meh. The only countries who see this in such light are US and its puppets/satellites. Plus it will be even funnier when the usual anti-Russian crowd will have to rationalize why their "liberal democracies" are going to bend the knee to Kremlin, like Germany and other nations already do.

[conon394]

That's just semantics. He can still call for mobilization without formally declaring war.

Not unless he changes the law. Putin can't legally stop loss contracts and he can't shove conscripts outside Russia. The semantics matter.

[Heathen Hammer]

Who said anything about conscripts? The future of warfare are PMC groups like Wanger. The age of regular armies is over, the age of modern Landsknecht is here again.

[Sar1n]

Who said anything about conscripts? The future of warfare are PMC groups like Wanger. The age of regular armies is over, the age of modern Landsknecht is here again.

BS. Wagners are like Praetorians of the 3rd c. and later-loyal to the coin from the tzar and used to do dirty butchery, but don't have the motivation to put their life on the line in straight-up fight against defending army, and little above regulars in terms of equipment and training.

PMC in general can never replace the frontline troops, and only fool would give them control of specialist machinery-from tanks to artillery and aircraft.

[Heathen Hammer]

BS. Wagners are like Praetorians of the 3rd c. and later-loyal to the coin from the tzar and used to do dirty butchery, but don't have the motivation to put their life on the line in straight-up fight against defending army, and little above regulars in terms of equipment and training.

PMC in general can never replace the frontline troops, and only fool would give them control of specialist machinery-from tanks to artillery and aircraft.

Wagner group is the most effective fighting force of the current war and they are certainly above regulars of both sides in terms of equipment and training. They also have their own armor, aviation, artillery, etc.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Wagner group is the most effective fighting force of the current war and they are certainly above regulars of both sides in terms of equipment and training. They also have their own armor, aviation, artillery, etc.

Quite high praise for a literal neo-nazi group. Which side is de-nazifying which, again?

As for the question of good guys, yeah, it's definetly the side where the leader has a Rasputin looking guru who formed a party with the Chaos Undivided emblem as its flag.

[Vanoi]

Wagner is not that great. In both conflicts in Syria and Libya the Wagner Group was sent there they couldn't turn the tide. Especially in Libya where Turkish drones and Syrians rebels did just fine against the Wagner Group and the LNA.

Then of course you have the time the Wagner Group along with pro-government Syrian forces attempted to advance against Kurdish and American positions in Syria.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham

They got obliterated.

[conon394]

Uh-oh: Its rewind time.
Unfortunately for you, I remember what you are talking about and you forgot to mention that I was using well-sourced articles, while you, after terminally boring both of us with the usual combination of gainsaying and sealioning, eventually conceded on the fact that you had no counter-source. So much for me using "poor" and "abused" data, when you yourself used every bad faith trick in the book and then lost the argument anyways.

edit: Never said I though I lost to just citing Schor's flawed book. Said I believe I had little time and inclination nor the access to resources needed to knock off a decent reply at that time.

https://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?816528-The-medevial-peasent-was-not-living-the-Life-of-Riley-(compared-to-modern-wage-slaves-in-liberal-democracies)

[Heathen Hammer]

Quite high praise for a literal neo-nazi group. Which side is de-nazifying which, again?

I'm kinda curious, what is "neo-nazi" according to you? Can you define this term so that we can understand what you are talking about?

As for the question of good guys, yeah, it's definetly the side where the leader has a Rasputin looking guru who formed a party with the Chaos Undivided emblem as its flag.

Yeah, I keep forgetting that the good guy side is the one with the Epstein island.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

I'm kinda curious, what is "neo-nazi" according to you? Can you define this term so that we can understand what you are talking about?

This, to me, looks pretty clear cut:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

That's Utkin, leader of Wagner. Can also link you a twitter post of Alexei Milchakov, high ranking member of battalion Rusich (part of Wagner), saying that he is straight up a nazi, but it's in Russian so I don't know if you'd understand it. Plenty of images of Wagner members using Nazi imagery and symbols as well.
What a neo-nazi? it's a nazi. They're nazis. You're praising nazis, which isn't a surprise all things considered, HH.

[Heathen Hammer]

This, to me, looks pretty clear cut:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

That's Utkin, leader of Wagner. Can also link you a twitter post of Alexei Milchakov, high ranking member of battalion Rusich (part of Wagner), saying that he is straight up a nazi, but it's in Russian so I don't know if you'd understand it. Plenty of images of Wagner members using Nazi imagery and symbols as well.
What a neo-nazi? it's a nazi. They're nazis. You're praising nazis, which isn't a surprise all things considered, HH.

That's the American democratic freedom fighters in Afghanistan. :^)
Seems like a common trend with modern militaries.
Again, no such thing as democrats or liberals in trenches.

[Sar1n]

That's the American democratic freedom fighters in Afghanistan. :^)
Seems like a common trend with modern militaries.
Again, no such thing as democrats or liberals in trenches.

You literally googled (well, you used DuckDuckGo, which used to be good but sold out and is just as bad now), grabbed first picture available, which is a bad photoshop job, and parade it here. So much for evidence.

[Heathen Hammer]

You literally googled (well, you used DuckDuckGo, which used to be good but sold out and is just as bad now), grabbed first picture available, which is a bad photoshop job, and parade it here. So much for evidence.

Lol no, its from Guardian article. Not photoshop, real picture, American soldiers in Afghanistan were brandishing this flag:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-ss-flag-photo

[Sar1n]

Still looks sketchy. Try not using bad thumbnails next time.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

That's the American democratic freedom fighters in Afghanistan. :^)
Seems like a common trend with modern militaries.
Again, no such thing as democrats or liberals in trenches.

Nice whataboutism.

[Heathen Hammer]

Nice whataboutism.

Not whataboutism. Pretty much every military in the world has some sort of German-esque aestehtic going, because that stuff look neat.
In Russia or Europe its not even as bad, you should see South American militaries lol.