Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

[conon394]

Propaganda war hotting up, obviously the wars is going worse for the Russians. I hope their arses get kicked out of Crimea next.

Would seem a bit much to ask. US and NATO would likely really have to step up another notch for the Ukraine to make that kind of push I say at minimum. Poland dumps the rest of Warsaw pact era tanks, and Migs to Ukraine the US pulls the trigger on the ATACMS missiles and the Ukraine gets a lot more AA shipped. Also I dunno I saw something a bit back Poland and the Czech republic and Slovakia were planning on upping ammunition production one way or the other - I was assuming that meant trying to revive Pact era munitions and parts. For a sustained offensive Ukraine is going to need to be able to ratchet up it fire rate from its existing Soviet type artillery. I would say Kherson and Dnieper river line are probably all the Ukraine is likely to manage (and maybe something around Kharkiv) before the fall sets in.

[Roma_Victrix]

Alexander Dugin being a fascist douchebag and his innocent daughter not deserving to be murdered in an assassination are two things that can coexist at the same time in the universe.

Kind of like how little kids in a school or elderly grandmothers in a hospital don't deserve to get blown to bits in Ukraine by artillery and airstrikes.

[Heathen Hammer]

There is literally no evidence linking Dugin's Eurasianism to "fascism". In fact, the whole point of ideology is to embrace Eastern thought instead of "decadent" Occident. Furthermore, modern globalism that Western ruling oligarchs uphold today is more in line with traditional definition of fascism.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

That's actually quite an interesting question.
So you consider Hitler and his party socialist? Because you know, lots of your libdem "comrades" bloviate about how it wasn't real socialism. I'm just trying to understand the warped psyche of fanatical supporters of globalism here.

I think you forget who you're speaking to, I'm no globalist. I'm a right wing libertarian who supported Trump. I'm no libdem.
As for whether or not the nazis were socialist, in part, yes. It certainly wasn't a fully capitalist system, and included a lot of state control over the industry and economy, an aspect of socialism. I wouldn't however categorise it as socialist outright, as some private enterprise was also allowed, but in large part by those close to the regime. The different nazi/fascist states operated quite differently, some more socialist than others. Mussolini was an avid socialist before he founded the Italian fascist movement, but afaik Fascist Italy was less socialist than Nazi Germany.

There is literally no evidence linking Dugin's Eurasianism to "fascism". In fact, the whole point of ideology is to embrace Eastern thought instead of "decadent" Occident. Furthermore, modern globalism that Western ruling oligarchs uphold today is more in line with traditional definition of fascism.

Lol. I suggest you read his article "Fascism - Borderless and Red". Here are some bits from it:
"genuine, true, radically revolutionary and consistent, fascist fascism..by no means the racist and chauvinist aspects of National Socialism that determined the nature of its ideology. The excesses of this ideology in Germany are a matter exclusively of the Germans... while Russian fascism is a combination of natural national conservatism with a passionate desire for true changes."
"Waffen-SS and especially the scientific sector of this organization, Ahnenerbe, (was) an intellectual oasis in the framework of the National Socialist regime"

[Heathen Hammer]

2 sentences with context deliberately omitted doesn't constitute as evidence. Heck, even in the latter sentence he clearly implied that Ahnenerbe was "intellectual oasis" because of the rest of the milieu not being very intellectual, consisting of former commies and all.
It took me like 20 seconds to google that. Do better.
Plus even if Dugin was "fascist" (though by modern globalist definition anyone critical of neoliberalism is fascist, which makes majority of planet's population "fascist"), so what? Does that justify murdering him and his relatives? Should people that promote neoliberalism, ideology which claimed far higher bodycount then any other ideology in past 30 years, be also targeted? What about communists? Oh and let's not forget all the religious zealots. You really don't want to open "its acceptable to physically harm people for X beliefs" box.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Just keep beating that strawman dude.
You're arguing against things I've never said, and continue to make unsourced claims even though you were asked multiple times to provide a source.

[Heathen Hammer]

You are the one who posted 2 (actually its technically 1.5 lol) sentences with carefully omitted context and got upset when you were called out on it.
I mean at this point I could argue for what you are arguing better then you do.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

You keep talking about the deaths caused by "liberal regimes" and, despite being asked multiple times, have yet to give us said number. You also keep changing the timeframe, it was 40 years earlier, now it's 30?

You keep claiming that I condone and justify the killing of Dugina, a loud and proud nazbol. I've stated multiple times now that I do not condone nor justify it.

I don't know why you asked me about communists. In my opinion Communists are about as bad as the Nazis were. I've literally said that nazbol is a combination of the two most detestable ideologies of our time.

You keep asking for sources on Dugin, yet when asked for sources yourself you provide none.

[Mithradates]

The war has been going on for half a year now.

On the day of Ukrainian independence, just after Sergei Shoigu the Minister of Defence of the Russian Federation stated that the military operations were slowed down in order to avoid civilian casualties, train carriages were hit by the Russians at Chaplyne station in eastern Ukraine, 22 civilians were killed and 50 wounded in the attack.


Ukrainian partisans in occupied areas of the country are increasing attacks and sabotage efforts on Russian forces and their local collaborators, with organised underground efforts appearing to spread.

Russia-Installed Official in Ukraine Killed in Car Bombing

The assassination of Ivan Sushko, who headed the town of Mykhailivka, is the latest of several attacks against pro-Russian officials in the occupied regions of Zaporizhzhia and Kherson in recent weeks.
...
Sushko’s death follows an attempted car bombing Tuesday on Russian-appointed Kherson region official Igor Telegin, who survived.

Earlier this month, the Moscow-installed head of the Kherson region, Vladimir Saldo, was hospitalized in Moscow after what Russia’s Defense Ministry claimed was an attempted poisoning.

His deputy Vitaly Gura was shot and killed a day later.

"second most powerful military in the world"

[Ludicus]

There is literally no evidence linking Dugin's Eurasianism to "fascism"

According to Duguin in this work "Fourth Political Theory",liberalism is threatening to monopolise political discourse and drown the world in a universal sameness, destroying everything that makes the various cultures and peoples unique. Not much different from what Trump says.Its also a reaction/negation to the Atlanticism, to an unipolar world.
----
The persecutory attitude of the vibrant democracy in the heart of Europe did not start now. It has a long history. Already in 2018,
UN Calls for Investigation of Ukrainian Digital Blacklist

…So much so that it came to the attention of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights. Without official action, the problem is likely to persist and escalate, with an increase in both media censorship and attacks on journalists.

Ukraine’s blacklist encompasses and affects many people all over the world. An Indian newspaper complains, outraged, The 3 Indians on Ukraine's blacklist are not Kremlin stooges

Raghavan, Saeed Naqvi, and Sam Pitroda are more than distinguished figures in the fields of diplomacy, journalism, and commerce. They are also Russian propagandists. Or so claims the government of Ukraine, which has blacklisted them alongside dozens of foreign luminaries…

I was sufficiently startled by this list to ask Mikhailo Podolyak, Ukraine’s chief negotiator and one of President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s ablest and most trusted aides, to explain the rationale behind it. He answered forcefully and without hesitation.
“The inclusion of certain people, including representatives of foreign states, in the ‘military lustration lists’ is absolutely justified because information is an extremely important part of the war as a whole,” Podolyak told me. Ukraine constantly monitors which public figures in the world are spreading Russia’s cannibalistic narratives… we consider these people to be unconditional agents of Russian influence. Even if they don’t understand it themselves.This means that we officially respond to this with sanctions both within the country and seek sanctions against them in other countries of the civilized world.I will repeat once again because it’s important: These people consciously or unconsciously disseminate Russian propaganda theses and thus deliberately participate in the information war they themselves are a kind of instrument of war.
And of course, Ukraine is obliged to limit the influence of such people”.

Raghavan appears to have angered the Ukrainians by condemning the “repudiation” of ordinary Russians by the West

it is self-wounding of Ukraine to expend resources on castigating figures who command respect, wield influence, and help shape opinion in their own countries. Consider Glenn Greenwald, John Mearsheimer, and Edward Luttwak, (*) a revered strategist and untiring supporter of such forgotten causes as Tibet, who number among the Americans blacklisted by Ukraine.
Greenwald, for instance, has done more to rescue democracy in Brazil than any contemporary journalist. And having exposed Washington’s abuses at home and chronicled its destruction abroad, he refuses to take its representatives at their word.
Mearsheimer—who has consistently faulted NATO’s expansion and the United States’s fixation on Russia and urged a resolute focus on China—is perhaps the world’s most esteemed exponent of ‘realism’ in international relations...Kyiv is beginning to falter. This shoddy blacklist is one example.

(*) Luttwak’s mortal sin- Why Am I Banned in Ukraine?

On July 14, 2022, it published on its website a list of politicians, academics, and activists accused of “promoting Russian propaganda,” including me. I’ve supposedly proposed holding referendums in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions of eastern Ukraine as a way out of the war. This is inaccurate: I’ve proposed holding plebiscites, not referendums

The text goes on to say,

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

...and not just because Russia’s fake overnight vote held in Crimea in 2014 made “referendum” an infamous term, but because the term has no precise meaning—unlike “plebiscite,” which is defined under the 1919 Versailles Treaty with very precise rules, starting with complete control by neutral powers and the vetting of eligible voters.
…This is crucial, both to exclude recent border-crossers and to include all traceable refugees. Under these rules, plebiscites were held in 1920 in Eupen-Malmédy to allow the locals to decide between annexation to Belgium or to Germany, in Schleswig to decide between Denmark and Germany, in Carinthia to decide between the new state of Austria and the new Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes, and in the Allenstein and Marienwerder districts of East Prussia to decide between Germany and Poland, with further plebiscites in 1921 in Upper Silesia, followed by a December plebiscite to allow the inhabitants of Sopron to choose between Austria and Hungary.
The First World War, with all its ravages, had just ended, the Spanish influenza was killing off many of the younger people who had survived years of warfare, and some of the contenders were brand-new states just getting organized, including truncated Austria, and brand-new independent Hungary and Poland.
Nevertheless, the plebiscites went off without major incident and avoided more fighting.
But Ukraine’s Center for Countering Disinformation did not merely confuse a free and fair vote with a fake referendum, but also disregarded my precondition that plebiscites should be held with Kyiv’s prior agreement, after a complete cease-fire and standstill, preceded by Russia’s renunciation of any other territorial claims.
Of course, I do not know if and when Kyiv and Moscow might agree to hold plebiscites in Donetsk and Luhansk.
But I do know that every war must end, that neither Moscow nor Kyiv will unilaterally accept defeat, and that plebiscites are the only available exits from the burning house of war.

By the way, even the US and the EU rejects Ukraine demand. U.S. rejects Ukraine demand of blanket visa ban on Russians
Brussels shies away from total Russian EU visa ban - POLITICO
Will Biden like Raghavan, also get on the Ukrainian blacklist?
And - even more important, what exactly is Mykhailo Podolya referring to when he threatens anyone anywhere in the world?"Ukraine is obliged to limit the influence of such people, a kind of instrument of war”?

[Vanoi]

The war has been going on for half a year now.

On the day of Ukrainian independence, just after Sergei Shoigu the Minister of Defence of the Russian Federation stated that the military operations were slowed down in order to avoid civilian casualties, train carriages were hit by the Russians at Chaplyne station in eastern Ukraine, 22 civilians were killed and 50 wounded in the attack.


Ukrainian partisans in occupied areas of the country are increasing attacks and sabotage efforts on Russian forces and their local collaborators, with organised underground efforts appearing to spread.

Russia-Installed Official in Ukraine Killed in Car Bombing



"second most powerful military in the world"

Their offensive has stalled and Putin has issued a decree increasing the size of Russia's army.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/p...-war-rcna44774

Attrition might just be finally taking a toll on the Russian army. The real question is though can the Ukrainians take advantage of this and start securing territory back from the Russians?

[Alastor]

Oh yes, those sanctions we (EU) imposed will absolutely destroy Russia and we will not even feel it. I wonder if people have started realising the cost of those sanctions just yet.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapo...sia-sanctions/

Sanctions on Russia have been a disaster for European commodities, and a boon to commodity traders, shipping companies, and oil and gas investors.

Instead, the West has primarily shot itself in the foot on energy, done great harm to climate change initiatives, and risks rising food prices due to fertilizer production drops, also thanks to sanctions against Russian suppliers and higher energy prices.

Until then, as one investor recently told me on Twitter, Europe remains “the third world of the western world economies.”

Congratulations to our glorious, hyper-competent and super-intelligent leaders for managing to turn the EU into the third world of the western world. In b4 we become the fourth world, or the fifth.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Oh yes, those sanctions we (EU) imposed will absolutely destroy Russia and we will not even feel it. I wonder if people have started realising the cost of those sanctions just yet.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapo...sia-sanctions/
[/FONT][/COLOR]
Congratulations to our glorious, hyper-competent and super-intelligent leaders for managing to turn the EU into the third world of the western world. In b4 we become the fourth world, or the fifth.

While it is sometimes inconvenient to stand up for what's right, it doesn't mean it should not be done.

[Vanoi]

While it is sometimes inconvenient to stand up for what's right, it doesn't mean it should not be done.

Alastor has said before the Russian invasion isn't the EY's problem so I don't think he particularly cares what's happening in Ukraine.

[Heathen Hammer]

The war has been going on for half a year now.

On the day of Ukrainian independence, just after Sergei Shoigu the Minister of Defence of the Russian Federation stated that the military operations were slowed down in order to avoid civilian casualties, train carriages were hit by the Russians at Chaplyne station in eastern Ukraine, 22 civilians were killed and 50 wounded in the attack.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

You can see military trucks and other vehicles, meaning that it was a legitimate military target.

According to Duguin in this work "Fourth Political Theory",liberalism is threatening to monopolise political discourse and drown the world in a universal sameness, destroying everything that makes the various cultures and peoples unique. Not much different from what Trump says.Its also a reaction/negation to the Atlanticism, to an unipolar world.

Well, he isn't wrong. My understanding is that Atlanticism is essentially a fancy academic way of referring to globalist neoliberalism, which is, objectively, biggest threat to the planet and humanity as of today.

[Alastor]

While it is sometimes inconvenient to stand up for what's right, it doesn't mean it should not be done.

Inconvenient, wow, talk about understating things. What's happening is rapidly going far beyond inconvenient and squarely into we are screwed territory. So I'd rather if the EU is to choose a hill to die on that it is actually one that has to do with the EU, instead of yet another ex-USSR conflict.

Alastor has said before the Russian invasion isn't the EY's problem so I don't think he particularly cares what's happening in Ukraine.

Because it's not. But our wise leaders are making it one. The EU is being rocked by one crisis after the other since 2008. This is not a coincidence, this is obviously a systemic crisis and a crisis of leadership. This is not the time for the EU to go out and try to impose US mandates on anyone. If Biden and co want to, they can do it on their own. This is the time for the EU to look inwards, see what the problems are, fix this damaged system and grow stronger... before it's too late.

[Vanoi]

Inconvenient, wow, talk about understating things. What's happening is rapidly going far beyond inconvenient and squarely into we are screwed territory. So I'd rather if the EU is to choose a hill to die on that it is actually one that has to do with the EU, instead of yet another ex-USSR conflict.
Because it's not. But our wise leaders are making it one. The EU is being rocked by one crisis after the other since 2008. This is not a coincidence, this is obviously a systemic crisis and a crisis of leadership. This is not the time for the EU to go out and try to impose US mandates on anyone. If Biden and co want to, they can do it on their own. This is the time for the EU to look inwards, see what the problems are, fix this damaged system and grow stronger... before it's too late.

Yes I've heard your arguments before about why you think it isn't the EU's problem. Helping a fellow neighbor defend itself against an unjust invasion is hardly imposing US mandates on anyone. Self-defense is a basic right in the UN charter and there's nothing against helping a fellow country defend itself. I'll remind you that many in the EU do consider Russia a threat and believe defending against Russia a priority even in the face of economic troubles. Looking inward isn't going to save you.

[Alastor]

Yes I've heard your arguments before about why you think it isn't the EU's problem. Helping a fellow neighbor defend itself against an unjust invasion is hardly imposing US mandates on anyone. Self-defense is a basic right in the UN charter and there's nothing against helping a fellow country defend itself. I'll remind you that many in the EU do consider Russia a threat and believe defending against Russia a priority even in the face of economic troubles. Looking inward isn't going to save you.

Oh yes, I'm quaking in fear at the prospect of Russia invading the EU. Puh-lease. This alarmist nonsense, coming predominantly from prejudiced ex-Warsaw block states, was hardly believable before we saw how Russia's army performed in Ukraine, they are 20 times less credible now. As for Ukraine's self-defense, by all means, let them do that if they want to. But self means they do that, not us. We are not them, we are not the ones attacked, there is nothing that obligates us to get involved so what we do is not self-defense, at this point it's self-sabotage.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Lmao yeah “Ukraine got invaded because Russophobia.” The propaganda is getting lazier it seems. Meanwhile the US warned European leaders for decades about dependence on Russian energy because of the potential for this sort of scenario, and their response was to double down. They reap what they sow.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

Inconvenient, wow, talk about understating things. What's happening is rapidly going far beyond inconvenient and squarely into we are screwed territory. So I'd rather if the EU is to choose a hill to die on that it is actually one that has to do with the EU, instead of yet another ex-USSR conflict.
Because it's not. But our wise leaders are making it one. The EU is being rocked by one crisis after the other since 2008. This is not a coincidence, this is obviously a systemic crisis and a crisis of leadership. This is not the time for the EU to go out and try to impose US mandates on anyone. If Biden and co want to, they can do it on their own. This is the time for the EU to look inwards, see what the problems are, fix this damaged system and grow stronger... before it's too late.

You're woefully naive if you think a Russian victory ends with Ukraine.