View Poll Results: Whom do you support and to what extent?

Voters
150. You may not vote on this poll
  • I support Ukraine fully.

    104 69.33%
  • I support Russia fully.

    16 10.67%
  • I only support Russia's claim over Crimea.

    4 2.67%
  • I only support Russia's claim over Crimea and Donbass (Luhansk and Donetsk regions).

    11 7.33%
  • Not sure.

    7 4.67%
  • I don't care.

    8 5.33%

Thread: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

  1. #4801
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    It is already going soft.
    Germany just agreed to sell Ukraine 100 more howitzers. Bulgaria just gave ammunition to Ukraine for their AT guns. Poland is going to give Ukraine PT-91 tanks.

    https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/p...er-six-months/

    The EU just renewed sanctions for a further six months. Is this what you mean by going soft?

    And EU is investing in Russia's war effort by buying resources from Russia on Russian terms. German FM literally said, in the link I posted above, that they will acquiesce Russia to avoid riots due to energy crisis that the sanction maintenance would cause.
    I get it, you really didn't want the globalist anti-Russian coalition to collapse so easily, but it did from minimal pressure. Plus your vegetable-in-chief will likely fold too, since China is backing Russia and a lot of political/military/intelligence brass in US are Chinese assets.

    Your taxes will go to buy Russian resources, and will be spent by Russia on its war effort in Ukraine, so technically it will be you who will fund building pro-Russian statues.
    I'm American, my taxes don't go to buying Russian oil or gas. Russia itself has actually cut gas flows to Europe, cutting off more possible funding they could have in the first place. The amount of money Russia could even make from selling gas to the EU is in no way going to make up for the horrible damage caused by sanctions and being cut off from the Western world's economies. Then of course you have the amount of money Russia has spent invading Ukraine from just simply maintaining and using hundreds of thousands and of it's soldiers to the amount of men, aircraft, ships, heavy equipment, tanks, artillery, ect. they have managed to lose in Ukraine. How many billions is that again?

    The EU buys some Russian gas while Russia makes a little bit of money while it's economy remains heavily sanctioned to the point of retracting while the EU continues to give weapons to and train Ukrainians to kill Russian soldiers. Again, all is good HH. Russia weakens by the day.

  2. #4802

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    I already addressed the whole "but they are giving Ukraine equipment" argument.
    In 1980s USA armed both Iraq and Iran.
    So the fact that EU gives Ukraine random tech while simultaneously investing into Russian war effort isn't anything new, in fact, its an old Western practice of trying too gain something from both sides.

  3. #4803

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Morticia Iunia Bruti View Post
    Naturally this is a mid- longterm project to bolster up the ukrainian army.
    Aren´t you was celebrating that Germany didn´t even allowed that delivery of those old Artillery pieces which the Baltic countries got donated from former East Germany Arsenal? Can´t understand how this bring up the Ukrainian Army up since multiple system from different countries already delivered equivalent stuff which is already being used. Probably after the War will be sale on Black Market or even Ukraine will later cancel that Deal which takes a decade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morticia Iunia Bruti View Post
    Yep, you are right HH, we are already producing salutes for our new overlord: Czar Putin I.
    Well the War is not over and still cannot figure out who is we.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morticia Iunia Bruti View Post

    Main Problem is for german weapon firms, they had reduced their production capabilities the last years, which they now must increase again, which logically needs time. So they must prioritize who's next Bundeswehr/Nato allies or Ukraine.

    So a production line in Romania would perfectly make sense.
    Main problem are not German Arms Dealer or Manufacturer. How that needs time when you aren´t even can capable understand the Issue? Which NATO Allies? most of them already choosing South Korea/USA over Germany. The only reason why Ukraine is wanting stuff from Germany because they need it now and lost their ability to produce on their own. Ones their former Factories running again nobody will even mention German Arms. Germany already proven himself unreliable - spamming even current new Statements in that Issue from the current German Government will not change that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morticia Iunia Bruti View Post

    So a production line in Romania would perfectly make sense.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  4. #4804
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    So the fact that EU gives Ukraine random tech while simultaneously investing into Russian war effort isn't anything new, in fact, its an old Western practice of trying too gain something from both sides.
    That conclusion has no merit. It reasonably clear if substitutions were available Europe would be using them. But again you just clap your hands, wave a money paw or click your red slippers together to alter Energy infrastructure. The fact that Poland and Bulgaria worked to start diversification of sources sooner rather than later is one reason they could take immediate shut offs (Or in Bulgaria case was not silly enough to turn off its nuclear plants).

    In 1980s USA armed both Iraq and Iran.
    Err again incorrect or at least a gross misstatement. US policy was to aid Iraq. The St Ronnie administration did engage in a clandestine and illegal operation to raise money for its pet CONTRAs because congress would not fund them that is not in fact US policy.

    I already addressed the whole "but they are giving Ukraine equipment" argument.
    I missed it perhaps you could preference these assured statements with a post number because I can't for the life of me tell where you addressed it.
    Last edited by conon394; July 28, 2022 at 11:58 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  5. #4805

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Substitution was available to Europe all along in form of nuclear power plants, most safe and efficient energy source on the planet.
    But they chose to rely on "renewables" scam and will have to pay Russian for resources for generations to come instead.
    As for US, its government does illegal stuff all the time, without calling it a policy, but result remains the same.

  6. #4806
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Substitution was available to Europe all along in form of nuclear power plants, most safe and efficient energy source on the planet.
    They don't pop up like daisys last I recall. And unlike the Mother land Western Europe is still run by democracies and fair chunk of the electorate outside of France and parts of Eastern Europe are dead set against Nuclear. The chance 10 to 20 years ago Europe would have under taken a vast round of Nuclear was , but that is what would have to happen to make any difference now.

    Also there is no complete to one substitution. Recall a lot of Natural gas is feeder stock for the chemical industry you cannot replace that with electricity. In fact one suspects one reason Russian gas was so in demand is that its cheap compared to LNG so A German chemical produce gains a relative advantage with a less expensive input. The probability that European governments would ignore their industry wanting cheap inputs was unlikely to happen at least until 2014. Maybe Poland or the Baltics or Moldova might get concerned about the Georgia war, but really I sure most Europeans were like where oh yes but they have a civil war since thay broke away from the USSR so big deal.

    But they chose to rely on "renewables" scam and will have to pay Russian for resources for generations to come instead.
    How is it a scam? Generations seems unlikely.

    As for US, its government does illegal stuff all the time, without calling it a policy, but result remains the same.
    No no it doesn't one was the Formal policy of the US government and thus not involved billions in US aid directly, but green lit the network of US allies to jump in as well. The IC affair was a tawdry illegal operation either to trade arms for hostages contradicting Administration policy and off course funnaling money to the CONTRAs . Overall a fairly small transfer of weapons. Scale was in no way equivalent.
    Last edited by conon394; July 28, 2022 at 03:05 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  7. #4807

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    And unlike the Mother land Western Europe is still run by democracies
    Lol get real, both are oligarchies that ignore their own populations interests routinely and "muh democraceh" is nothing but a façade in both.
    fair chunk of the electorate outside of France and parts of Eastern Europe are dead set against Nuclear.
    Well then you can thank those wonderful alternatively gifted people for keeping Europe as Russian serfstate for the next few generations.
    How is it a scam?
    Its not cost effective and awful for environment.
    No no it doesn't one was the Formal policy of the US government and thus not involved billions in US aid directly,
    "It wasn't official acknowledged therefore it didn't happen" is not a valid argument. Plus this is not the first time US played both sides, one can remember how different branches of American government supported opposing factions in Syria and rest of Middle East. Seems like an old tradition of US to backstab its "allies" when it becomes politically expedient.
    Last edited by Heathen Hammer; July 28, 2022 at 01:11 PM.

  8. #4808
    Mithradates's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    ...to kill Russian soldiers.
    About that.
    Statistics. The average Moscow citizen dies at the front line 87.5 times less than Dagestanis, 275 times less than Buryats, 350 times less than Tyvinian. Moscow uses war not only as an instrument of mass destruction of Ukrainians, but also as a deliberate ethnocide of 🇷🇺 people.

    -

    Other news:
    The German company Krauss-Maffei Wegmann will sell 100 Panzerhaubitze 2000 self-propelled howitzers to Ukraine, Der Spiegel has learned based on insider sources.

  9. #4809
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Lol get real, both are oligarchies that ignore their own populations interests routinely and "muh democraceh" is nothing but a façade in both.
    If you say so.

    Well then you can thank those wonderful alternatively gifted people for keeping Europe as Russian serfstate for the next few generations.

    You keep using the word generations I don't think it means what you think.


    "It wasn't official acknowledged therefore it didn't happen" is not a valid argument. Plus this is not the first time US played both sides, one can remember how different branches of American government supported
    An official not official policy of the government is one thing. Iran contras was not playing both sides rather a hair brained quixotic and illegal attempt to secretly buy back hostages and find illegal money to divert to the Contras. It involved some 2000 TOWs and some parts and bits for hawk missiles. That is vastly dwarfed by orders of magnitude of official US backing for Iraq and green light for our allies to do the same. Almost assuredly the reason the ideal was entertained is because the equipment was so negligible the conspirators likely felt comfortable that it would have no real impact on the war.

    Its not cost effective and awful for environment.
    Not according to this...

    https://www.iea.org/reports/projecte...ectricity-2020

    Second table Median Technology cost by region


    Lol get real, both are oligarchies that ignore their own populations interests routinely and "muh democraceh" is nothing but a façade in both.
    And German nuclear policy proves you wrong it was very much driven by the opinion of the population.

    https://www.cleanenergywire.org/fact...lear-phase-out

    In 2009 the CDU/CSU FDP coalition did attempt to roll back the plans to wind down nuclear power for the very reason that producing ~29 percent of electricity in Germany it was the ideal bridge to wind and solar (and stabilizing electricity source for those production methods) - cutting coal should have been the priority (although one suspects far more job losses are involved in that) Had she able to maintain that policy in the face of the public German would need any nature gas now for electricity and would burn less brown coal. But she could not she changed to to bottom up pressure form the voters. The logical technocratic outcome was not maintained in the face of voter opposition.
    Last edited by conon394; July 28, 2022 at 03:15 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  10. #4810

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    You keep using the word generations I don't think it means what you think.
    If "for next few decades to come" helps you cope better with EU's energy serfdom, then you can feel free to use that.
    And German nuclear policy proves you wrong it was very much driven by the opinion of the population.
    You mean after decades of delusional irrational and emotional propaganda from anti-nuclear neo-luddites. So if we assume the whole thing is "real democracy" and not just result of decades of astroturfing from our best friends in fossil fuel industry (and let's be honest, Russia played her hand there too, I bet), then I guess German population elected to fund Russia, albeit indirectly.
    But you can keep believing the renewables cult if you want to, but reality seems to state otherwise:
    This low availability makes solar and wind power expensive, as the cost of the facilities is spread over fewer kilowatt hours of electricity, compared with nuclear and gas facilities that are available 90 percent of the time or more. The low availability also limits the carbon emissions that these facilities can offset. Furthermore, nuclear and gas facilities are generally available during peak periods when their electricity is most valuable, and maintenance is scheduled when they are not needed.Because of the low availability of wind and solar facilities, an electric company must have traditional backup power plants available to meet customers' demand for electricity. The cost of these backup facilities is properly part of the cost of wind and solar power. The intermittent nature of the power they produce also means that solar and wind installations may require costly upgrades to the electricity grid to handle the power they produce, also increasing their cost.

    A recent Brookings Institution study compared the costs and benefits for wind, solar, nuclear and gas electricity generation. Surprisingly, wind and especially solar have costs that exceed their benefits, when all of the costs and benefits are taken into consideration. Nuclear and gas electricity generation have substantial net benefits. Because of their high rates of availability, they offset much more carbon emissions than wind and solar power, while adding no new carbon emissions in the case of nuclear power or low carbon emissions in the case of gas.

  11. #4811
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    I already addressed the whole "but they are giving Ukraine equipment" argument.
    In 1980s USA armed both Iraq and Iran.
    Actually Israel armed Iran on the US's behalf. Your point would only make sense if the EU was selling Russia weapons to kill Ukrainians but they aren't. It's Russian soldiers doing all of the dying. So you haven't addressed anything.

    So the fact that EU gives Ukraine random tech while simultaneously investing into Russian war effort isn't anything new, in fact, its an old Western practice of trying too gain something from both sides.
    Buying a little bit of gas isn't investing in the Russian war effort. Nor does it again remotely make up for what Russia has lost in sanctions and the war it's fighting. A little bit of gas isn't going to stop the Russian economy from contracting or stop the thousands of Russian soldiers dying or thousands of pieces of equipment lost or being destroyed.

  12. #4812
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Orban, War: You're causing more trouble, Ukraine can't win against Russia.

    Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban made his opinion known while speaking at a press conference in Vienna, Austria. Orban told journalists that Ukraine cannot defeat Russia and also warned of dire consequences for the European economy.
    “This war in this form cannot be won,” Orban said, speaking alongside Austrian Chancellor Karl Nehammer in Vienna, CNN reports. He said that NATO countries’ strategy of supporting Ukraine with weapons and training “has shown until now that it will not lead to success.”“Without changing the strategy, there is not going to be peace,” he said, warning that, without peace in Ukraine, all of the European Union will “be pushed into a war situation.” “It is not clear how we can avoid recession in the EU if the war carries on,” Orban added.
    Orban is a huge embarrassment to the EU. Orban refuses to allow weapons transit to Ukraine, seeks to buy more gas from Russia, says the EU has "shot itself in the lungs" with the sanctions, claims “sanctions prolong the war”, and blames the war in Ukraine for the inflation.

    I have to admit that the nazistoid (see Orban's “mixed-race” comments, like those of Goebbels) is not stupid . Orban knows that it would be a political defeat for the EU to expel Hungary from the European bloc. What is fashionable now is to facilitate the entry of as many countries as possible into the Western bloc EU/NATO, whatever government they have, it doesn't matter.

    It is appalling to hear from Stoltenberg, and almost an insult to our intelligence, that the West must prepare to continue supporting Ukraine in a war lasting for years! and by the way, it is worth asking: this “unofficial” entry of Ukraine into NATO/EU is worth how many human lives? Does anyone who unconditionally supports the government of Ukraine not support the banning of political parties in the country? Does he not support the end of freedom of opinion? Does he not support Nazi infiltrations of the army and government? Does he not support the information tourniquet that surrounds us, just as Russia does?

    --
    German cities impose cold showers and turn off lights.

    “We can’t say yet how much gas will cost in November, but the bitter news is it’s definitely a few hundred euros per household,” said the economy minister, Robert Habeck.
    Habeck says that the costs of the gas price increase have to be passed on to consumers. More precisely, it will be three times the price that is currently paid (for now). What means the triple of the price for the rich? It’s nothing. But for the common citizen and the poorest, it’s a huge amount. No problem, all sacrifices are necessary, we are at war, all that is needed is to send billions to Ukraine.

    Meanwhile in the UK 'Insult to millions': Shell and Centrica profits cause outrage as energy bills soar

    News of billion-pound profits comes after UK households warned average annual bill could hit £3,850 by 2023.
    Shell posted record earnings of $11.4bn (nearly £10bn) for the three-month period from April to June and promised to give shareholders payouts worth £6.5bn.
    Asked about the stark contrast with punishingly high bills faced by households already struggling amid sky-high inflation, Shell’s chief executive, Ben van Beurden, said “It is what it is.”
    At the same time, Centrica, the owner of British Gas, reinstated its dividend, handing investors £59m, after reporting operating profits of £1.3bn during the first half of 2022.
    Frances O’Grady, the general secretary of the Trades Union Congress, said: “These eye-watering profits are an insult to the millions of working people struggling to get by because of soaring energy bills”.
    ---
    The romanticization of war.
    1)
    Boris Johnson presents Volodymyr Zelensky with Churchill ith Churchill award for ‘moral courage’
    PM says ‘test of leadership’ faced by Ukraine president compares to that of 1940 as he salutes his ‘superb indifference to physical danger’
    2)
    The gentleman is a 21st century Robin Hood fighting against injustice and demonic universal evil, she the beautiful Lady Marian. This Vogue portfolio will undoubtedly constitute a historical moment and a case study for future textbooks on the history of communication, war propaganda and image campaigns.





    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
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    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

  13. #4813
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Ludicus, Russia openly stated it seeks to impose a regime change in Ukraine. Stop ignoring this. Negotiations are not an option.

  14. #4814
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    12:35 p.m


    Ministry: Bundeswehr supplies Ukraine with 16 bridge-laying tanks


    Germany will deliver 16 Biber armored bridge-laying vehicles to Ukraine, according to the German Defense Ministry. This would allow Ukrainian troops to overcome water or obstacles in battle, the ministry said on Friday. The first six systems will be delivered this fall, with a further ten next year. This supplemented support services from the Bundeswehr in July, such as the delivery of self-propelled howitzers, Mars II multiple rocket launchers or Gepard anti-aircraft gun tanks. According to the Bundeswehr, the beaver can bridge ditches or rivers up to 20 meters wide.

    Russlands Krieg in der Ukraine - Aktuelle News im Liveblog - ZDFheute

    German Howitzers in heavy use and problems with new ammunition for Gepard:

    According to a media report, only a month after the delivery of German artillery systems to Ukraine, the self-propelled howitzers are already showing signs of wear and tear. In the middle of the week, according to “Spiegel”, Kyiv informed the Ministry of Defense in Berlin that some of the seven Panzerhaubitze 2000 guns delivered at the end of June displayed error messages after intensive shelling of Russian positions, indicating that several howitzers were in need of repair.

    In the Bundeswehr, it is assumed that the problems are related to the high rate of fire with which the Ukrainian armed forces use the guns in the fight against the Russian invaders; the loading mechanism of the howitzer is put under enormous strain as a result. The troops consider 100 rounds a day to be a high-intensity mission, but the Ukrainians apparently fired far more shells. In addition, the soldiers at the front are said to have initially tried to fire special ammunition at too great a distance.

    The Bundeswehr therefore agreed to quickly send further spare parts packages to the Ukraine to solve the problems. At the same time, the federal government is negotiating with the armaments industry about setting up a repair center in Poland, where necessary repairs to delivered material can be carried out more quickly.

    New problems have also emerged with ammunition replenishment for the Gepard anti-aircraft tank, the first five systems of which were recently delivered to Ukraine, according to the report. During the test shooting in Germany, it turned out that the firing system of the Gepard does not recognize the ammunition from a Norwegian manufacturer, so the projectiles now have to be improved. The modified ammunition is to be tested again in August.


    Kiew meldet Probleme mit deutschen Haubitzen (msn.com)
    Last edited by Morticia Iunia Bruti; July 29, 2022 at 06:48 AM.
    Cause tomorrow is a brand-new day
    And tomorrow you'll be on your way
    Don't give a damn about what other people say
    Because tomorrow is a brand-new day


  15. #4815
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    and blames the war in Ukraine for the inflation.
    So he blames Putin ...good.

    I have to admit that the nazistoid (see Orban's “mixed-race” comments, like those of Goebbels) is not stupid
    I do hope I am reading that wrong

    It is appalling to hear from Stoltenberg, and almost an insult to our intelligence, that the West must prepare to continue supporting Ukraine in a war lasting for years! and by the way, it is worth asking: this “unofficial” entry of Ukraine into NATO/EU is worth how many human lives?
    Seeing as the Ukrainians themselves chose not to be a Russian puppet and also have their state carved up I assume its their choice on the blood price they are willing to pay.

    Does anyone who unconditionally supports the government of Ukraine not support the banning of political parties in the country? Does he not support the end of freedom of opinion
    So you mean the things you do when you are fighting a war of national survival? Does anyone who support Churchill not have to admit they are support banning parties, censorship, rounding up a indefinitely detaining foreign nationals, extralegal legal detention of some citizens, secret treason trials of UK citizens...

    Does he not support Nazi infiltrations of the army and government?
    Links?

    The gentleman is a 21st century Robin Hood fighting against injustice and demonic universal evil, she the beautiful Lady Marian. This Vogue portfolio will undoubtedly constitute a historical moment and a case study for future textbooks on the history of communication, war propaganda and image campaigns.
    Yep truly a insidious invention of the Ukrainians. Nope no propaganda before that none at all.

    What is fashionable now is to facilitate the entry of as many countries as possible into the Western bloc EU/NATO, whatever government they have, it doesn't matter.
    And all because of Putin's invasion.

    Again Ludicus what is you opening proposal for negotiations?
    Last edited by conon394; July 29, 2022 at 08:58 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  16. #4816
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    The gentleman is a 21st century Robin Hood fighting against injustice and demonic universal evil, she the beautiful Lady Marian. This Vogue portfolio will undoubtedly constitute a historical moment and a case study for future textbooks on the history of communication, war propaganda and image campaigns.
    @Ludicus: I really like your comparison. As Putin is a perfect treacherous Sheriff of Notthingham.

    We only need then a Bishop of Hereford, who is preaching, that everything the Sheriff does is the will of God and just.

    Do you think Mearsheimer will play the role?
    Cause tomorrow is a brand-new day
    And tomorrow you'll be on your way
    Don't give a damn about what other people say
    Because tomorrow is a brand-new day


  17. #4817
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    If "for next few decades to come" helps you cope better with EU's energy serfdom, then you can feel free to use that.
    That makes little sense I seriously doubt the current situation will exist in 3 decades.

    Nice you an opnion peice so it does have to link to a sources or facts.

    The link uses a straw man. Nobody is suggesting an all renewable power grid, everyone understands that a mostly renewable grid will need a combination of battery storage and reliable persistent generation sources.

    Second this:

    "low carbon emissions in the case of gas"

    This is a bit of myth created by used the carbon released at use of natural gas while ignore methane release during recovery and processing (methane being a much more problematic green house gas).

    But finally he uses a certain amount of hanwavium to conflate money cost and than slides in t emissions cost. The two are distinct. Also subtly he seems to playing the game economists like look lok inexpensive say an all natural gas grid is. No nasty upgrade cost and all consistent power all the time to what seems to an imagine all renewable grid. see the prices get high because of this or that an the other thing. But he never defines these in a formal way. Also as noted he tells if he is including methane leakage from the production of natural gas.


    https://www.science.org/doi/full/10....Ht4xtP40clrPTw

    That being said to the extent that NG is used to replace coal of any kind in the grid it is a good thing. But I think it is a mistake logically to group it together with nuclear. The ideal solution would be for nuclear to be the stabilization factor in renewable grids. But that ain't going the bias against it use is just too strong. Note I give the Finns and French full marks for not bellyaching and getting the lead out an building long term storage for nuclear waste. I would maybe hope the Energy depart is not wasting money SMRs and say the NuScale Power SMR is massive success. That might do something about eliminating irrational fear.
    Last edited by conon394; July 29, 2022 at 08:19 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  18. #4818
    Mithradates's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban made his opinion known while speaking at a press conference in Vienna, Austria. Orban told journalists that Ukraine cannot defeat Russia and also warned of dire consequences for the European economy.
    “This war in this form cannot be won,” Orban said, speaking alongside Austrian Chancellor Karl Nehammer in Vienna, CNN reports. He said that NATO countries’ strategy of supporting Ukraine with weapons and training “has shown until now that it will not lead to success.”“Without changing the strategy, there is not going to be peace,” he said, warning that, without peace in Ukraine, all of the European Union will “be pushed into a war situation.” “It is not clear how we can avoid recession in the EU if the war carries on,” Orban added.
    This is Kremlin propaganda.
    Why are you quoting Orban, you might as well just quote Lavrov or Peskov.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Orban knows that it would be a political defeat for the EU to expel Hungary from the European bloc.
    Again, there is no mechanism for any state to be expelled from the European Union.
    Withdrawal from the European Union is the only legal and political process whereby an EU member state ceases to be a member of the Union.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    Habeck says that the costs of the gas price increase have to be passed on to consumers. More precisely, it will be three times the price that is currently paid (for now). What means the triple of the price for the rich? It’s nothing. But for the common citizen and the poorest, it’s a huge amount. No problem, all sacrifices are necessary, we are at war, all that is needed is to send billions to Ukraine.
    In Hungary it will be seven times the price for those who use more gas than "average". It will affect people living in large, poorly insulated family houses in the countryside the most... who just happen to be Orban's main voter base.

    This is going to be an interesting winter.

  19. #4819

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by nhytgbvfeco2 View Post
    Ludicus, Russia openly stated it seeks to impose a regime change in Ukraine. Stop ignoring this. Negotiations are not an option.
    To be fair, stated Russian goals change every other week, so who knows?

  20. #4820
    Ludicus's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Morticia Iunia Bruti View Post
    @Ludicus: I really like your comparison. As Putin is a perfect treacherous Sheriff of Notthingham
    Impossible, Robin and the sheriff of Notthingam were both English. But I am not alone in my criticism of this romanticization of war, it's tasteless.
    Controversy over Ukraine presidential couple's Vogue ...
    Olena Zelenska's Vogue cover sparks backlash - DW
    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    "Does anyone who unconditionally supports the government of Ukraine not support the banning of political parties in the country? Does he not support the end of freedom of opinion"

    So you mean the things you do when you are fighting a war of national survival?
    Because it matters.But, in a particular way, I'm referring to this, https://www.publico.pt/2022/07/27/op...auders-2015041

    It is remarkable, since the beginning of the international media coverage operation of the Ukraine war, how the correspondents of the numerous Western television and newspapers in Ukrainian cities have been silent on the very visible form of public punishment of the so-called marauders...It doesn't occur to us at present to resort to them to punish delinquents, but by convincing us that solidarity with Ukraine is an essential step in the defense of traditional European values, it is not difficult to imagine that the pillories will be reactivated. One of these days.


    I am also referring to the EU's outright lie of referring to Ukraine as a "vibrant democracy" A few years ago, in 2014 some EU parliamentary groups were protesting, outraged, against the financial aid provided by the European Union to the most corrupt country in Europe, after Russia.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mithradates View Post
    Why are you quoting Orban, you might as well just quote Lavrov or Peskov.
    It is more scandalous because Orban belongs to NATO and the European Union, and and he does and says whatever he wants.It's untouchable.But I can't say he is wrong when he said Ukraine cannot defeat Russia and also warned of dire consequences for the European economy.More precisely: Putin cannot afford to lose in Ukraine. Its painfully true. Read below.

    Rand corporation works closely with the US Department of State and has played a vital role in connecting military planning with research and development decisions since its founding in the wake of World War II. I have already mentioned here the policy followed long ago by the American government, years before the war in Ukraine, described here in detail, Overextending and Unbalancing Russia - RAND Corporation

    Now that the war has begun, this new perspective was sponsored by the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Download or read online.
    Pathways to Russian Escalation Against NATO from the Ukraine War-Rand Corporation.

    Figure 1 summarizes the potential escalation pathways. Just read what is written in this figure.
    There are four pathways. Pathway 0, pathway 1, pathway 2, pathway 3. (Preconditions for Escalation and Steps to Escalation)
    It’s worth to note that the pathway 0 is an "escalation spiral that have already begun”. Also read the Conclusion.
    -----

    Four practical ways to safe gas in Europe,

    -In France, air-conditioned shops have been told to keep their doors shut when the air conditioning is on or risk a fine of €750.

    -In Ireland, they say "Don’t fill the kettle. If you’re stopping work for a coffee break, only boil the kettle with as much water as you need.”

    -In Spain, during the summer, wearing a necktie is discouraged. “We can tell the kids to turn the lights off, or we can keep the blinds down; do not to wear ties unless it’s necessary, in the summer days. I'd like you to note that I am not wearing a tie. That means that we can all make savings from an energy point of view," says Pedro Sanchez.

    -In the northern German city of Hannover, hot water will no longer be available in the shower in swimming pools, sports halls, and gyms!

    In my opinion, this measure, to be truly democratic, should be extended to professional athletes in all disciplines. It’s not a problem. Let’s go back in time: Greeks original form of bathing consisted of nothing more than a quick plunge into icy water.
    Another option: stop showering after exercising. "To those that are well, and especially to the young", Saint Benedict in the sixth century commanded, “bathing shall seldom be permitted.” The Goths attacked the bathhouses, but Christians attacked the idea of bathing: in the fourth century, the Mother Superior of a convent warned that a clean body and clean dress signified an unclean soul.
    No, it’s not a joke, my dear Catholic Poland. (two-year prison sentence for those who “make jokes” about the Catholic Church The Polish Minister of Justice calls for prison)

    After the Dark Ages began to lighten, Europeans rediscovered the pleasure of bath, but not in the same way that we do today. Every single day Isabel I of Spain's Inquisition supervised the concept of "cleanliness of blood", but as far as body hygiene is concerned, she bathed twice a month, or even less. In Colonial America bathing for personal hygiene was considered “impure” and the practice regulated. In Boston, it was illegal to take more than two baths a month. In Colorado you needed a doctor’s prescription, and in Philadelphia and Wyoming, anyone who took more than one bath per month could be jailed, according to my sources. So, once again, what’s the problem?
    Anyway, you don't have to shower every day, dermatologists say. Three times a week is enough.
    Last edited by Ludicus; July 30, 2022 at 09:39 AM.
    Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
    Charles Péguy

    Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
    Thomas Piketty

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