View Poll Results: Whom do you support and to what extent?

Voters
100. You may not vote on this poll
  • I support Ukraine fully.

    65 65.00%
  • I support Russia fully.

    12 12.00%
  • I only support Russia's claim over Crimea.

    4 4.00%
  • I only support Russia's claim over Crimea and Donbass (Luhansk and Donetsk regions).

    6 6.00%
  • Not sure.

    6 6.00%
  • I don't care.

    7 7.00%

Thread: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

  1. #3981
    swabian's Avatar igni ferroque
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Laser101 View Post
    You mean the idea of Russia breaking up or America? Neither seems particularly plausible.
    Russia might actually break apart, certainly not the USA. This is no laughing matter. But i guess this is playing into your hands once more. So why can't you guys even stfu and watch the chaos as it unfolds. Have you no humility?

  2. #3982
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebaki View Post
    Former President of Turkey (The 8th) threaten even Syria with War for expulsion of the Leader of PKK - just rebranding your Name does not gives you a free ticket even if your perception admits that.
    You're avoiding my question. How many NATO countries have the YPG listed as a terror organization?



    Do you need some evidence again? for example we got this feel free to use a translator if you donīt understand Turkish.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    You can't complain about me using Wikipedia and then expect me to accept you using Twitter. Find a proper source.

    Btw I am still waiting for that evidence Greece is a deactivated NATO member.

  3. #3983

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    How many NATO countries have the YPG listed as a terror organization again? Oh, just Turkey who pretty much accuses any Kurdish group as being separatists including the only Kurdish party in Turkish parliament.
    USA is one. PKK is listed as a terrorist organisation and YPG is listed as the Syrian branch of PKK. The idea that only Turkey lists YPG as a terrorist organisation is a play on words.

    It is well known that various Nordic countries are used as safe havens for fund and recruit collection for PKK organizations. Local governments there pretty much do nothing to combat these actions that hurt the national security of an other country. It is completely reasonable for Turkey make an issue out of this if she is to call them military allies. Just because we have the Russian threat doesn't mean she has to ignore it's own concerns.

    Sweden and Finland knows this too and thats why they are currently in active negotiations with Turkey to win her vote. Likely result will be that Turkey will agree while PKK activities in such Nordic countries will hit a wall.
    Last edited by PointOfViewGun; May 15, 2022 at 03:27 AM.
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  4. #3984
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    USA is one. PKK is listed as a terrorist organisation and YPG is listed as the Syrian branch of PKK. The idea that only Turkey lists YPG as a terrorist organisation is a play on words.
    Except as we have discussed a dozen times before thee US does not consider YPG to be the PKK or an offshoot. Otherwise they'd be labeled a terrorist organization and under US law the US could not provide training, support or weapons to the YPG. Yet they do. Because the US does not consider the YPG to be a terror organization.

    It is well known that various Nordic countries are used as safe havens for fund and recruit collection for PKK organizations. Local governments there pretty much do nothing to combat these actions that hurt the national security of an other country. It is completely reasonable for Turkey make an issue out of this if she is to call them military allies. Just because we have the Russian threat doesn't mean she has to ignore it's own concerns.

    Sweden and Finland knows this too and thats why they are currently in active negotiations with Turkey to win her vote. Likely result will be that Turkey will agree while PKK activities in such Nordic countries will hit a wall.
    So well known but like Nebaki you haven't provided a source.

  5. #3985

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    USA is one. PKK is listed as a terrorist organisation and YPG is listed as the Syrian branch of PKK. The idea that only Turkey lists YPG as a terrorist organisation is a play on words.
    US Special Forces fighting alongside YPG would beg to differ. Call them what you want, reality on the ground simply does not support your position on them.

  6. #3986
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    I think the debate over Finland's accession to NATO does have relevance to this war, as it is a direct consequence of it.

    My guess is that Turkey's objections wont prevent accession, but rather they're there to massage the conversation in certain directions.

    Whether or not US special forces or PKK or what ever are doing what ever, is likely irrelevant to the discussion.
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  7. #3987
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    My guess is that Turkey's objections wont prevent accession, but rather they're there to massage the conversation in certain directions.
    Erdogan sees a chance to get concessions out of the EU and NATO. He has stepped a lot toes recently and his bromance with Putin and S-400 purchase are not looking like a good calls. I really can't going through with blocking Finland (and Sweden) he really isolating Turkey from the US/NATO and EU.
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  8. #3988

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    You're avoiding my question.
    How please? You didnīt even bother to answer my questions in the last two Pages of this Thread and then you came up with something with like that?

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 







    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    You can't complain about me using Wikipedia and then expect me to accept you using Twitter. Find a proper source.
    I mean those Pictures are too present in other Sources and i was not referring to some kind twitter Posts - itīs pretty obvious.



    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post

    Btw I am still waiting for that evidence Greece is a deactivated NATO member.
    Again another reply with empty content - you really want me to go two pages before and quote what i post before? Because currently you are bringing things out of context and I do not know how this related to this Thread. Currently Greece isnīt a deactivated NATO member but it was back in the time since they made that decision by their own. ITīs called History but keep asking for "evidence" since you even take your own perception as a "evidence" still not relevant to this Topic.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bande Nere View Post
    US Special Forces fighting alongside YPG would beg to differ. Call them what you want, reality on the ground simply does not support your position on them.
    Yeah just keep re-branding yourself or re-name after you did enough terror attacks and crimes. Itīs like a free ticket like nothing happened before what a nice World. I mean who is leading the YPG currently? Can you give us there a clarification?


    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Erdogan sees a chance to get concessions out of the EU and NATO. He has stepped a lot toes recently and his bromance with Putin and S-400 purchase are not looking like a good calls. I really can't going through with blocking Finland (and Sweden) he really isolating Turkey from the US/NATO and EU.
    Again this is not a something that can be just related to Mr. Erdogan since Turkey foreign policy in that case is pretty obvious and with or without Mr. Erdogan it wouldnīt change. For example Sweden donated 376$ millions for the YPG while they only got left just 5$ millions for Ukraine? How does this support Ukraine, Turkey or even NATO interests? As Turkey i wouldnīt be alligned with something like that.

    Source: https://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/syria/11122021
    Last edited by Nebaki; May 15, 2022 at 11:46 AM.

  9. #3989
    Mithradates's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    But more importantly it is now evident that Putin's military reforms in the last decade have been almost completely absorbed by the lovingly pampered and cared for swamp of Russian corruption. The authorities who have been given money to repair and upgrade gear simply pocketed the dough themselves to go and have some vodka and wenches (which is perfectly understandable in my opinion).
    Also yachts! IIRC Abramovich's superyacht the "Eclipse" is bigger than the cruiser "Moskva".

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    I'm now convinced that Ukraine has a very high chance of repelling this laughable attempt at an invasion. Russia's campaign is uniquely inefficient on so many levels it's mind boggling. The war effort costs them 0.5-1 billion A DAY! And it took them MONTHS to get only this far. Russia is done for! When this is over, Poland is likely going to overtake them economically.
    The EU pays approximately € 1 billion a day to Moscow in exchange for the oil and gas, this needs to stop.

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    Basically, I think the only means to turn this into a victory for Russia is a series of tactical nuclear strikes. Let's hope Putler attempts to save his purely imagined honor by committing seppuku. But there is no honor among thieves and I expect him to disappear suddenly in a couple of months and go into hiding together with his brat daughters and a couple of mafia/oligarch friends.
    I dont think they would use nuclear weapons, although I expect them to use chemical weapons eventually.

    -

    About the Bilohorivka crossing disaster, the new total is 82(!) vehicles + 2 boats destroyed/abandoned. Incredible.

  10. #3990
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebaki View Post
    How please? You didnīt even bother to answer my questions in the last two Pages of this Thread and then you came up with something with like that?
    You still haven't answered my question.

    I mean those Pictures are too present in other Sources and i was not referring to some kind twitter Posts - itīs pretty obvious.
    If it's obvious you can post a source other than Twitter.



    Again another reply with empty content - you really want me to go two pages before and quote what i post before? Because currently you are bringing things out of context and I do not know how this related to this Thread. Currently Greece isnīt a deactivated NATO member but it was back in the time since they made that decision by their own. ITīs called History but keep asking for "evidence" since you even take your own perception as a "evidence" still not relevant to this Topic.
    Your own article didn't once say Greece deactivated it's membership. It threatened to but never did. You were the one who brought up Greece's NATO membership being deactivated in the first place. Maybe you should stick to the topic.





    Again this is not a something that can be just related to Mr. Erdogan since Turkey foreign policy in that case is pretty obvious and with or without Mr. Erdogan it wouldnīt change. For example Sweden donated 376$ millions for the YPG while they only got left just 5$ millions for Ukraine? How does this support Ukraine, Turkey or even NATO interests? As Turkey i wouldnīt be alligned with something like that.
    You mean the YPG who fight ISIS? You know that terror group that has attacked multiple NATO members including Turkey and is still a present danger? Combating ISIS and terrorists are well within the interests of NATO and Ukraine.

  11. #3991

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    Except as we have discussed a dozen times before thee US does not consider YPG to be the PKK or an offshoot. Otherwise they'd be labeled a terrorist organization and under US law the US could not provide training, support or weapons to the YPG. Yet they do. Because the US does not consider the YPG to be a terror organization.


    So well known but like Nebaki you haven't provided a source.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bande Nere View Post
    US Special Forces fighting alongside YPG would beg to differ. Call them what you want, reality on the ground simply does not support your position on them.
    US official documents label YPG as PKK's Syrian branch. Various military and government official's statements also repeats that same fact. US itself going against its own official statements and laws doesn't make YPG not the Syrian branch of PKK. It merely points out US hypocrisy.
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  12. #3992

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    You still haven't answered my question.
    Which Question? Maybe you answer first my questions two pages ago and the ones you skipped from last Year otherwise stop insist on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post

    If it's obvious you can post a source other than Twitter.
    So you see a simple post which is implying something as a Source or even we go beyond as a evidence without even checking it?


    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post

    Your own article didn't once say Greece deactivated it's membership. It threatened to but never did. You were the one who brought up Greece's NATO membership being deactivated in the first place.
    You didnīt even read the Article properly and just quoted that it was referring to 1980s while in the Article it clearly mentions dates before when it was not just threat but Greece withdraw from NATO Command by itīs own. This is the same like deactivating itīs Membership and being on itīs own. The Structure is there and probably it will take a while to be allowed to take part on NATO Command but that is a really Hostile action against NATO.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vanoi View Post
    You mean the YPG who fight ISIS? You know that terror group that has attacked multiple NATO members including Turkey and is still a present danger? Combating ISIS and terrorists are well within the interests of NATO and Ukraine.
    Yeah I mean that YPG that was making propaganda fighting against ISIS but cleary did something else. How it comes those ISIS Members anytime are being even allowed to join YPG and got a free ticket since they are supporting some kind interests of "NATO and Ukraine" ? Last time we saw a statement from YPG supporting Russia against Ukraine.

  13. #3993
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    I guess we should rename the thread:

    "yet another place for Turkish and Greek posters to cast shade on each other"

    Each of your great grand parents probably dated. Get over it.
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  14. #3994
    Praeses
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Wow the Finnish application is being handed in the next few days and Sweden to follow. Seismic shift in Northern Europe, biggest political realignment since the fall of the USSR. Putin is getting absolutely smashed.

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    I guess we should rename the thread:

    "yet another place for Turkish and Greek posters to cast shade on each other"

    Each of your great grand parents probably dated. Get over it.
    "Stop fighting. Also your ancestors banged". 10/10 I see you've been to Australian ****posting school my friend. Now tell the US posters their political opinion counts for more because they weight twice as much as anyone else, and you'll be ready for full citizenship.
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  15. #3995

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    I was really surprised that they were worried about National Security. Protecting the Homeland is a very foreign concept to both Finland and Sweden, and it is condemned by the Public. They bring not only wolves but also ISIS militants from the Middle East and feed them. Finland brings the IS militants and feeds them with its own tax - Source:

    https://yle.fi/news/3-12024840
    https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/...camp-1.6292830

    Of course, due to the uncontrolled influx of former ISIS members and sympathizers, there was also a terrorist attack in the city of Turku in Finland. Armed immigrant groups commit crimes all the time in the slums. Despite all this, those who say "the homeland is going away" are called racist in these two countries, and the whole Nobel Prize system is based on this mentality. They even get triggerd from words like "Motherland" or "Fatherland".

  16. #3996

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Well that went from 0 to Grey Wolf propaganda very quickly.

  17. #3997

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    I guess we should rename the thread:

    "yet another place for Turkish and Greek posters to cast shade on each other"

    Each of your great grand parents probably dated. Get over it.
    How did you came to that conclusion? Just because some Guy here is with a irredentist manner insist on something about Greece this that not mean someone wants to turn this Thread into a Greece/Turkey related Topic. This is just your view and still canīt figure out you came after this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bande Nere View Post
    Well that went from 0 to Grey Wolf propaganda very quickly.
    Can you please clarify that? Maybe we go little back and you may give us a deep expression of your last recent posts on this topic since they donīt see even to be related to Ukraine or something else.

  18. #3998
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Now tell the US posters their political opinion counts for more because they weight twice as much as anyone else, and you'll be ready for full citizenship.
    It's not because they weigh more. It's because of their peppy attitude to life.
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  19. #3999

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by swabian View Post
    Russia might actually break apart, certainly not the USA. This is no laughing matter. But i guess this is playing into your hands once more. So why can't you guys even stfu and watch the chaos as it unfolds. Have you no humility?
    Break apart into what, though? Other than the Caucasus, the ethnic minority regions in Russia are either sparsely populated or surrounded by areas that are almost entirely Russian (and most of the republics have sizable ethnic Russian populations anyway). There simply isn't a practical base of support for any of the federal subjects to become independent. California or Texas would have better chances than any of the Russian territories.

  20. #4000
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Nebaki View Post
    Which Question? Maybe you answer first my questions two pages ago and the ones you skipped from last Year otherwise stop insist on it.
    I'm going to have to keep insisting.


    So you see a simple post which is implying something as a Source or even we go beyond as a evidence without even checking it?
    You are doing everything you can to not post a source aren't you?



    You didnīt even read the Article properly and just quoted that it was referring to 1980s while in the Article it clearly mentions dates before when it was not just threat but Greece withdraw from NATO Command by itīs own. This is the same like deactivating itīs Membership and being on itīs own. The Structure is there and probably it will take a while to be allowed to take part on NATO Command but that is a really Hostile action against NATO.
    Except withdrawing from NATO military command isn't deactivating your membership. France did the same thing and only re-joined a decade or two ago. They were still considered a NATO member and would have been protected against an attack. So once again, no such thing as a deactivated NATO membership.




    Yeah I mean that YPG that was making propaganda fighting against ISIS but cleary did something else. How it comes those ISIS Members anytime are being even allowed to join YPG and got a free ticket since they are supporting some kind interests of "NATO and Ukraine" ? Last time we saw a statement from YPG supporting Russia against Ukraine.
    So you have evidence that the YPG allows ISIS members join? And you have evidence the YPG supports Russia over Ukraine? Lots of claims with no evidence you are making.

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