Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

[AqD]

Russia is no longer a conventionally serious threat, yet we still got some kind rejection to the harsh reality.

The threat does not come from materials but their thought.

UK has tons of weapons and a bloody history. No Irish is afraid of them today. Al-Qaeda had nothing, but many were afraid.


Kremlin will always be dangerous until the generations of crazy nationalists like Putin and those in pro-war protests die off. The reality is that we should be preparing to encircle and isolate Russia, ally with all its neighbors including Belarus (whose president needs to go) and ban all tech exports for the next 50 years.

[conon394]

US official: Russian missiles crossed into Poland, killing 2



Probably unintentional but NATO can't ignore it.

Can Poland fire an entire mechanized brigade for disobedience/insubordination and then they show at at the help wanted desk in Lviv (with their gear)?


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You know what's a good thing to do to signal that you're willing to negotiation? Discriminately bombing cities...

Only the US has agency, Ukraine is US sock puppet, the US made Russia do it...

[Sar1n]

Will Russia first deny everything, or will they call it Ukrainian false flag right away? Any bets?

[conon394]

Will Russia first deny everything, or will they call it Ukrainian false flag right away? Any bets?

I agree. But pretty hard to make the false flag look credible I don't think there is any overlap in Russian and Ukrainian cruise missiles. Unless you going to argue Poland and Ukraine staged it together with collected bits of wreckage from earlier Russian strikes.

Umm no thinking about I now what the Tankies will say it was obviously all Poland. They want to sabotage the pressure for negotiations so a couple planned explosions and has anyone even seen these supposed casualties.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

Would be a good opportunity to redeploy patriots at the polnish - slovakian - Ukrainian Border to shot down every intruding russian cruise missile in a 200 km security zone? Or better 300 km zone?

[Sar1n]

Russia went straight to false flag. I don't think Poland is going to take that kindly.

Also, the missiles were apparently launched from Belarus. If any action is taken, I hope Lukashenko will be held complicit.

[Nebaki]

The threat does not come from materials but their thought.

Well that dream is already perished since it was from beginning a mess with no real outcome.

Kremlin will always be dangerous until the generations of crazy nationalists like Putin and those in pro-war protests die off.

Kremlin was just a cheeky child sitting on former soviet heritage using its toys. But neither they have the opportunity to capitalize like the Soviet Union on conducting a military operation nor they have the human capital which was then present. Back in the days of Cold War Ukraine was part USSR.

The reality is that we should be preparing to encircle and isolate Russia, ally with all its neighbors and ban all tech exports for the next 50 years.

I disagree since i dont think that this way would led to a solution. If you get a Embargo you can always develop some different methods to breach that, of course it is possible to make that easy in that case for Russia. On other hand we would always have some short-term thinking politicians which would decrease amount and level of such a sanction for their little benefits in their career.

including Belarus (whose president needs to go)

The problem is not Belarus or any kind of former ex-post soviet republics which act like they being some kind of independent from Russia. That President of Belarus is nothing else then a Governor of a State from Russia.

Probably unintentional but NATO can't ignore it.

NATO will ignore it just like they ignorate back in the days all those Air Space violations conducted from Russian side. They probably will deploy some Patriot Battery from different NATO-Members alongside Polish Border because of so-called solidarity like in Turkey. That reminds me of those all Patriot-System deployed in Greece which can be now useful in Poland and has no purpose somewhere in the Aegean .

Would be a good opportunity to redeploy patriots at the polnish - slovakian - Ukrainian Border to shot down every intruding russian cruise missile in a 200 km security zone? Or better 300 km zone?

Well they maybe work against some flying russian assets as deterrence but are not designed to counter really some cruise missiles. The Idea of a secruity zone (probably over Ukraine i assume?) when already Ukraine is making good progress in the field is very dangerours and not really necessary.

Russia is already very busy with Ukrainian Armed Forces and cannot afford any other more involvement from any other parties getting more involved.

[conon394]

Would be a good opportunity to redeploy patriots at the polnish - slovakian - Ukrainian Border to shot down every intruding russian cruise missile in a 200 km security zone? Or better 300 km zone?

I dunno info available says huddled right on the boarder vs cruise missiles you looing a 100-150/60? km. Looks you set up a buffer and take stress of some Ukrainian air defense but a band only a little farther than Lviv. If Moldova would play ball you protect Odessa.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

@Conon: Yeah it would take some stress out of air defense and the Energy net. Till the more modern air defence is coming.

[Nebaki]

When the Smolensk air disaster happened nothing serious happened and this is just a lesser cause for any kind of step to be taken.

[Ludicus]

Also you can find German American who transferred Industrial and military manufacturing information to Germany during WW2 and were discovered and arrested.

War spies are a common thing; selling war material to the enemy was/is something the US never did.
A few years ago...Welcome to Ukraine, the most corrupt nation in Europe-Guardian
Nothing has changed.
Whitewashing Ukraine's Corruption - Cato Institute

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After 100 Russian missiles left the entire Ukraine in the dark today, Zelensky asks for “significant action”. Since the beginning of the war, Zelensky has been wishing for a world conflict.

Stray Russian missiles feared to have landed in Poland

Two people were killed in an explosion in an eastern Polish village, prompting the government in Warsaw to hold an emergency meeting – while the 100-missile attack on Ukraine was so serious that power supplies in a third country, Moldova, were also cut.
The explosion in Poland destroyed a tractor in the village of Przewodów,

The Russian defence ministry in a statement denied its missiles crossed into Poland, calling the reports a “deliberate provocation.”
The statements of the Polish media and officials about the alleged fall of ‘Russian’ missiles in the area of Przewodów is a deliberate provocation in order to escalate the situation. No strikes on targets near the Ukrainian-Polish state border were made by Russian rockets. The wreckage published by the Polish media from the scene in the village of Przewodów has nothing to do with Russian weapons.”

the Nato treaty is highly unlikely to be triggered by an accidental attack.

[conon394]

War spies are a common thing; selling war material to the enemy was/is something the US never did.
A few years ago...Welcome to Ukraine, the most corrupt nation in Europe-Guardian
Nothing has changed.
Whitewashing Ukraine's Corruption - Cato Institute

Exactly what happens when you get left in Russia orbit and not allowed into NATO or the EU...

In any case Fat Leonard much?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_Leonard_scandal


You are banging the same drum and avoided my other examples.

After 100 Russian missiles left the entire Ukraine in the dark today, Zelensky asks for “significant action”. Since the beginning of the war, Zelensky has been wishing for a world conflict.

Easy to say from inside the warm embrace of NATO.

[Cyclops]

Russia is behaving more and more like a mad dog.

[Nebaki]

Russia is behaving more and more like a mad dog.

They lost Kherson some retaliation was expected and they perform this on that way while even using their Surface-to-air missiles against ground targets. Probably even got some old Scud missile based on Iranian or North Korean variants who knows.

[Ludicus]

Exactly what happens when you get left in Russia orbit and not allowed into NATO or the EU...

1-I didn't know that in the EU and NATO countries there is no corruption.
2- I didn't even know that my country, a founding member of NATO, had stopped being a fascist and corrupt country until the 25th of April.It was the April revolution that drastically reduced corruption and implanted freedom and democracy, not the fact of being a NATO member since 1949 until 1974, the golden age of Portuguese fascism.

Ukraine is the most corrupt country in Europe, period. A "vibrant democracy" for Ursula, of course. Even last year ( September 2021) Support for reforms in Ukraine ineffective in fighting grand corruption

...Despite varied support the EU has offered to Ukraine, oligarchs and vested interests continue to undermine the rule of law in Ukraine and to threaten the country’s development”,

--

In any case Fat Leonard much?

Selling information in peacetime is one thing, selling aircraft material to the enemy in wartime is completely different and is something the US has never done.

Easy to say from inside the warm embrace of NATO.

??..what are you talking about? I repeat, since the beginning of the war, Zelensky has been wishing for a world conflict.Is that you are wishing for?

A few minutes go,
after reports of fatal explosion

State Department principal deputy spokesperson Vedant Patel echoed that the US cannot confirm the reports of missiles hitting Polish territory and killing two.
“We have seen these reports out of Poland and are working with the Polish government and our NATO partners to gather more information,” Patel said at a press briefing. “We can’t confirm the reports or any of the details at this time”

[Muizer]

Would be a good opportunity to redeploy patriots at the polnish - slovakian - Ukrainian Border to shot down every intruding russian cruise missile in a 200 km security zone? Or better 300 km zone?

Sounds like a recipe for escalation IMHO.

[Ludicus]

According to the Guardian,

Some analysts said that they believed that photographs of missile debris at the scene were of a Ukrainian S-300 air defence system that would have been engaged in shooting down a Russian missile, but it was not possible to corroborate those reports.

[Ukiah]

There are already US troops in Poland:

[conon394]

Sounds like a recipe for escalation IMHO.

How? A Russian Missile headed toward Lviv could also just passing through toward Poland. If NATO decided to shoot it down in Ukrainian airspace and Ukrainian agreed - where is the escalation.

[Cyclops]

How? A Russian Missile headed toward Lviv could also just passing through toward Poland. If NATO decided to shoot it down in Ukrainian airspace and Ukrainian agreed - where is the escalation.

I know i know!

The escalation is when Russia invades without a declaration of war.

They refuse to negotiate.

Then they target civilians.

And then they shoot missile into neighboring states.

Russia has been escalating from day 1.