Hamas attacks southern Israel

[Papay]

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-...-east-67037895

This is considered the biggest attack inside Israel territory since, i dont know when. There are even rumors that Hamas has captured whole settlements in the south although that could be propaganda. Some officials in Israel must loose their position because we are talking about a big failure of the Israeli secret services

[Siblesz]

I think the reports of the "massive" attacks are probably an exaggeration... Hamas can barely dent even the Israeli border wall with their puny missiles, and they're gonna get pounded back badly in return like always. This smells to me like a case of Netanyahu and his ultra right solidifying their radical nationalism. Probably they've been waiting for any small attack by Hamas to go full in, declare total war, and thus galvanize the Israeli public in support in order to declare emergency powers and thus finally squash local opposition to their recent judicial overhauls. If anything this might mean the end of Hamas, and the very beginning of a full on Israeli occupation of Gaza and the rest of the West Bank.

[Papay]

I think it's probably a big whoop of nothing... Hamas can barely dent even the Israeli border wall with their puny missiles, and they're gonna get pounded back badly in return like always. This smells to me like a case of Netanyahu and his ultra right solidifying their radical nationalism. Probably they've been waiting for any small attack by Hamas to go full in, declare total war, and thus galvanize the Israeli public in support in order to declare emergency powers and thus finally squash local opposition to their recent judicial overhauls. If anything this might mean the end of Hamas, and the very beginning of a full on Israeli occupation of Gaza and the rest of the West Bank.

We are not talking about some missiles here. We are talking about a full blown invasion

[sumskilz]

I’m going to say based on the number of warning sirens and explosions I’ve heard today in Tel Aviv, that they’ve attacked more than the south.

There have been reports of fighting in Kfar Aza, Sderot, Sufa, Nahal Oz, Magen, Be'eri, and the Re'im military base. These are all along the Gaza border. Hamas militants have been mostly shooting civilians, but they’ve apparently taken at least one hostage.

Hamas has claimed to have fired 5,000 rockets into Israel in the last five hours. In any case, it seems to have been enough to overwhelm the Iron Dome to some extent, since there were some direct hits on Israeli cities, including one in Tel Aviv. So far, 22 Israelis have been reported killed, with an additional ~300 wounded, many of them seriously.

[mishkin]

We are not talking about some missiles here. We are talking about a full blown invasion

Do you have data on how many Hamas militants are participating in that operation and what means they have?

[Siblesz]

Don't be silly... Beware of the news because it is mostly controlled by a pro-Israel narrative. Whatever Hamas is doing, it is not a full invasion and nothing close to it. A few dozen men breach the border wall, 5,000 missiles (99% destroyed or not hitting their target). A full invasion is what Israel will do in return.

[Kyriakos]

Indeed, I fear that Israel will use this as a pretext to literally level tens of apartment buildings and steal more land.
What prompted the "Palestinian invasion", by the way?

[Nebaki]

Beware of the news because it is mostly controlled by a pro-Israel narrative. Whatever Hamas is doing, it is not a full invasion and nothing close to it.

In that case there is no need for a pro-Israel narrative:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://twitter.com/RadioGenoa/status/1710564615099129968

Whatever Hamas is doing, it is not a full invasion and nothing close to it.

Well it is not Hamas moreover we can call it by name which is no one else then Iran.

[Alastor]

In b4 Israel's government uses this "unexpected massive attack", which I've seen compared to the Yom Kippur war by some outlets ( ), to further bolster their power.

[mishkin]

Indeed, I fear that Israel will use this as a pretext to literally level tens of apartment buildings and steal more land.
What prompted the "Palestinian invasion", by the way?

the stolen land, probably.

[sumskilz]

Hamas can barely dent even the Israeli border wall with their puny missiles

Nonsense:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In my experience, an exploding 90 kg warhead feels like getting kicked in the chest even from two kilometers away, when standing out in the open.

Although yes, despite their initial success in taking Israel by surprise this time, they are in for a pounding, but to some extent, that’s probably their goal – dead Palestinians on social media to disrupt the Saudi normalization talks.

I don’t actually see this playing well for Netanyahu. The radical right in his coalition are necessary to keep him in power for now, but it’s not an amicable relationship. There have recently been reports of Ben Gvir disrupting high level security meetings. He was excluded from the most recent one. Ben Gvir’s unprecedented electoral success was largely driven by a reaction to the last major flare up.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Although yes, despite their initial success in taking Israel by surprise this time, they are in for a pounding, but to some extent, that’s probably their goal – dead Palestinians on social media to disrupt the Saudi normalization talks.

It does seem like a tantrum. The Abraham Accords and subsequent negotiations with the Arabs haven’t been a positive turn of events for the “Palestinian” larp

[Papay]

Can Israel IDF bomb inside Israel territory?

[Kyriakos]

I wonder how the US will react if Israel commits a massive massacre, as it is set to.
Hopefully it will be enough for the US to stop supporting it.
By the way, already, with the first indiscriminate air strike, 160 palestinians died in Gaza (more than the reported dead jewish people).

[Abdülmecid I]

Hey guys, cool it down a bit with the calls for indiscriminate massacre from your cozy living-rooms. Unsurprisingly enough, war crimes are considered illegal activities, so any future comment cheering or wishing for them will be rewarded with a lengthy suspension from the political forums.

[irontaino]

Not sure what Hamas is trying to accomplish with this incursion, except maybe propaganda points when the inevitable Israeli counter attack and bombing of Gaza leaves scores of dead Palestinians.

[Muizer]

Not sure what Hamas is trying to accomplish with this incursion, except maybe propaganda points when the inevitable Israeli counter attack and bombing of Gaza leaves scores of dead Palestinians.

Yes, extremists on opposite sides of a conflict have one common interest: to keep it going. I'm not sure how anyone can still get suckered into taking sides. It's only giving air to the fire to do so. Until ordinary folk on both sides take power away from them, I say they deserve each other.

[Kyriakos]

Sure, if hundreds of palestinians die in a day, it makes no sense to "not take sides". That's obviously a non-proportional response and a war-crime.

[Siblesz]

It's always the same. Hamas "attacks" Israel (after being placed into a corner and closed off inside of a concentration camp for the last fifty years with zero recourse for improvement), they kill a few Israelis. Israel "defends" itself by bombing the shaiza out of Gaza, killing a few thousands, leveling entire buildings down into dust, and making a few "defensive" raids into Gaza. In the end, thousands of Palestinians end up dead vs. like 40 Israelis. And the Israelis declare victory over the evil aggressive terrorists of Gaza... corral them back into an ever-more desperate corner of misery where people have barely enough to live on in one of the hottest and most densely populated pieces of hell on this planet... and then a year or two later people forget that Gaza even exists and it happens all over again.

Gaza and Israel's relationship kind of reminds me of the relationship of an abusive person with his malnourished dog that he keeps in chains. The dog is miserable, forgotten, always in chains, and the master regularly taunts and abuses the dog. Suddenly the dog catches the master unawares and bites him. Suddenly the owner screams, "See! The dog is evil! He is attacking me!" And then he proceeds to beat the dog viciously almost to death. Some of the dog's owners see this and say, "Ah yes... that dog is very violent and evil... he must be beaten." Other neighbors see the reality of the situation as it is, and understand that the aggression of the dog is caused by it being chained and abused by the stupid and violent owner.

[Roma_Victrix]

The numbers of casualties are nuts thus far on both sides, though, per this source. Yes, there are fewer dead Israelis (~40-70), but the number of wounded is up to 561, with 77 of those in critical condition. Unsurprisingly the Israeli response has been massive and escalatory, with 198 Palestinians confirmed dead and 1,610 wounded. This is all out war.

While my sympathies are generally with the Palestinians who deserve their own country and do not deserve repugnant settler violence, Hamas isn't doing itself any favors here either by launching an invasion combined with a surprise rocket attack. The barrage was so massive this time that some rockets were able to penetrate Iron Dome defenses and hit their civilian targets. They also knew Israel would do more than just respond in kind. It's just madness.

It's always the same. Hamas "attacks" Israel (after being placed into a corner and closed off inside of a concentration camp for the last fifty years with zero recourse for improvement), they kill a few Israelis. Israel "defends" itself by bombing the shaiza out of Gaza, killing a few thousands, leveling entire buildings down into dust, and making a few "defensive" raids into Gaza. In the end, thousands of Palestinians end up dead vs. like 40 Israelis. And the Israelis declare victory over the evil aggressive terrorists of Gaza... corral them back into an ever-more desperate corner of misery where people have barely enough to live on in one of the hottest and most densely populated pieces of hell on this planet... and then a year or two later people forget that Gaza even exists and it happens all over again.

Yeah, it is a troublesome cycle and self-fulfilling prophecy. Right wing figures like Netanyahu face a greater existential crisis in their legal and legislative battles over control of the judiciary, but amass political clout and popular consent due to their championing of military action against Hamas. There is no incentive for Netanyahu to change course and look for a peaceful resolution involving land exchange, because that would fundamentally sap his popularity among the segment of the Israeli populace who support Likud and hawkish settler policies. Hamas also has no incentive to change course and pursue a more diplomatic approach, because they can whip Palestinians into a frenzy, which is easier to do politically than to reach out to adversaries on the Israeli side.