Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

[Kyriakos]

I read it's the anniversary of the conclusion to the battle of Stalingrad.
Hopefully the war won't go on until the next one.

[Peresvet]

Your average mobiks maybe, but I'm talking about people like Shoigu, Gerasimov, Bortnikov...the Putin's "yes men". They're the kind of scum that naturally floats upwards in the corrupt oligarchies like Russia. Unscrupulous, backstabbing, and when needed bootlicking self-serving products of decades of institutionalized corruption. They're the ones who can really prevent Putin from reaching for WMDs, and in the unlikely event he'll try it, they'll save their lives the only way possible...

putin has surrounded himself only with guards, who, in their thinking, are ordinary mobs, he is in a bunker in the Urals and does not let anyone in without a total check and quarantine, even the closest henchmen cannot enter his reception without being subjected to total filtering.

[Cyclops]

I read it's the anniversary of the conclusion to the battle of Stalingrad.
Hopefully the war won't go on until the next one.

Agreed. Very sad date. Ordinary Germans whipped to war with lies paid for their leaders evil ambition. Ordinary Soviet citizens slaughtered for someone else's dream.

Theres not too much relevance to today, this is a mid power proxy war and while Ukraine may be fighting for political survival Putin isnt Hitler and Zelenskyy isnt Stalin.

Both sides have scumbag elements aping the BBEG but I suspect they are brigand thugs most interested in being cool and scary, and to them the SS are the coolest scariest thing they xan imagine.

The real SS would have starved or burnt both the Azovs and Wagner as subhumans.

[Peresvet]

Agreed. Very sad date. Ordinary Germans whipped to war with lies paid for their leaders evil ambition. Ordinary Soviet citizens slaughtered for someone else's dream.

Theres not too much relevance to today, this is a mid power proxy war and while Ukraine may be fighting for political survival Putin isnt Hitler and Zelenskyy isnt Stalin.

Both sides have scumbag elements aping the BBEG but I suspect they are brigand thugs most interested in being cool and scary, and to them the SS are the coolest scariest thing they xan imagine.

The real SS would have starved or burnt both the Azovs and Wagner as subhumans.

I recently spoke with a man from Wagner. He went there because he needed money. At Wagner, he earns over $7,000 a month. Not every American earns that much. And in Russia, in a civilian profession, he would earn at most 300-400 dollars. In the city where I was born. That is why naive Russians go there. Those who survived live well and provide for their families. But few of them survive.

[fkizz]

Might makes right has been practiced and is being practiced right now by the US and its allies/clients on a continuous basis all around the world. Why the sudden concern? Historical (and even contemporary) amnesia is impressively deployed every time someone not approved of starts a war.

In such scenario, war has its honors, and if someone pushing to become Emperor of the East starts to throw a "muh nukes" tantrum everytime things go wrong, then that calls for everybody's attention at an international level, because those who became Emperors by conquest, had frustrations in strategy all the time.

Also they often had problems in knowing when to stop, even when everything was going well.
So it's implied (and demonstrated) there'll be a repetitive tantrum about nukes, over his own planned operation.

Another is that the Emperor of the East view validates Ukranian right to self defense.
I mean would you consider Russia as ethically incorrect for.. having raised its army to make a stand against invading Napoleon?

Another part is that anti-imperialism views was promoted to a relevant degree by USSR during the cold war, (part of marxism-leninism) and after the 90s continued the tradition. So well, empathisers of such rethoric, who were enough to cause very big protests, sooner or later come to find their new acquisition that entered the game.

[Peresvet]

Russian losses in Ukraine approach 200,000 killed and wounded - NY Times

The New York Times, citing American officials, writes that it is very difficult to give an accurate estimate of the number of deaths, so these are only approximate figures. It is noted that Ukrainian forces also suffer significant losses. The article also states that due to heavy losses in Bakhmut, both sides of the conflict keep more trained units in reserve - the Russian Federation sends mobilized and prisoners into battle, and from the Ukrainian side, the burden of shelling often falls on the shoulders of Teroborona units.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

...

German industry offers up to 100 main battle tanks for Ukraine
This is especially true when you include discarded equipment that is stockpiled by the industry. As the Handelsblatt learned from industry circles, in addition to the modern Leopard 2, Leopard 1 and the British model Challenger 1 could also be refurbished and handed over to Kyiv. This would have the advantage that the Bundeswehr would not have to give up any tanks from its own scarce stock.

The Flensburg armaments company FFG also has Leopard 1 in stock and could retrofit it for the Ukraine. It is unclear to what extent Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (KMW) - the main manufacturer of the Leopard 2 - could participate in a possible delivery. The company has so far remained silent on the matter.

Ukraine-Krieg: Deutsche Industrie bietet mehr als 100 Kampfpanzer für Ukraine an (handelsblatt.com)

...

This has become more concrete , as the German Government has given today the export license for the german arms industry to deliver the older model Leopard I to Ukraine, which was the first german tank for Bundeswehr and was produced between the 60s and 80s.

As Spiegel reports the license was given to Flensburger Fahrzeugbau, which has 29 Leopard I more or less ready for Ukraine.

A big problem is the munition for its 10,5 cm gun.

Brasilia is still refusing at the moment to sell its ammunition from the time, when it has possessed 250 Leopard I, also the ammunition from Gepard.

But Germany is still trying to buy ammunition from Quatar and 14 more Gepards.

In July the first new munition for Gepard can be produced and delivered by Rheinmetall. Bundeswehr has ordered 150.000 ammunition shells for Ukraine.

In the end i guess we must produce new 10,5 cm ammunition for Leopard too, as there up to 100 tanks can be delivered to Ukraine.

[conon394]

Not going to knock Germany because I think they are only at a bit more of one end of the curve more than most part of the same club. The end of the cold war and quick victories in Iraq and Serbia and the fact the GWOT did not really eat ammo (and the wear and tear on stuff was kind of buried and ignored but it happened slowly) really saw all of NATO and including the US really fail to plan for what a real long term high intensity war would use in terms of ammunition, repair and new stuff made and needed ASAP.

[nhytgbvfeco2]

[Kyriakos]

^Ukraine didn't have comparable losses to (whichever) the russian ones? Because they keep asking for more and more weapons, which sort of isn't what you do when you have the upper hand; I suppose they have their reasons (aside from the black market, of course ^^)

[conon394]

^Ukraine didn't have comparable losses to (whichever) the russian ones? Because they keep asking for more and more weapons, which sort of isn't what you do when you have the upper hand; I suppose they have their reasons (aside from the black market, of course ^^)

Your statement is nonsensical. Russia has the bulk of the ex USSR military industry, the massive majority of all its old produce in storage. Russia was a major arms supplier Ukraine a minor one thus the capacity to produce new weapons is vastly different.

Tally up just the missile strikes Kyriakos and ask yourself what exactly Greek industry would be churning out right now after a year of that on its own? How many days of ammunition of say 155mm shells does Greece have on hand if used at the rate the Ukrainians are using ammo? Looking at the list of major equipment of the Hellenic army in not seeing a ton Made in Greece.

[Peresvet]

^Ukraine didn't have comparable losses to (whichever) the russian ones? Because they keep asking for more and more weapons, which sort of isn't what you do when you have the upper hand; I suppose they have their reasons (aside from the black market, of course ^^)

In total, since the beginning of the war, Russia, according to Oryx, has lost at least 8023 units of military equipment (4914 destroyed, 198 damaged, 300 abandoned, 2611 captured by the Armed Forces of Ukraine). Oryx estimates the losses of Ukraine during this time at 2287 units of military equipment (1371 destroyed, 94 damaged, 60 abandoned, 761 captured).

The list includes only equipment, the loss of which is confirmed by photo and video materials in the public domain, and the actual amount of destroyed equipment is much higher, Oryx analysts emphasize.

https://www.dw.com/ru/oryx-s-nacala-...kov/a-63821986

[swabian]

In total, since the beginning of the war, Russia, according to Oryx, has lost at least 8023 units of military equipment (4914 destroyed, 198 damaged, 300 abandoned, 2611 captured by the Armed Forces of Ukraine). Oryx estimates the losses of Ukraine during this time at 2287 units of military equipment (1371 destroyed, 94 damaged, 60 abandoned, 761 captured).

The list includes only equipment, the loss of which is confirmed by photo and video materials in the public domain, and the actual amount of destroyed equipment is much higher, Oryx analysts emphasize.

https://www.dw.com/ru/oryx-s-nacala-...kov/a-63821986

If the sanctions were what they should be, Russia should be on her knees right now. It's because Germany can't wake up. And don't believe that Germans have super high living standards, so they can't be bothered. They don't! It's a dying old country in all of it's misery. They will not move, no matter what, because they can't.

Germany, militarily acting as the center of gravity in Europe... i would laugh if it was actually funny.

The Russians aren't doing better at all of course.
The loss of human life for Russia must be enormous. The official numbers are at what, 70000? It's probably much more than that. Now they claim they can field another 5000000 soldiers. It's insane. Even if they can field that number, the will to declare that alone is insane. They should be beaten. Nobody can really tell.

However, the vast majority of the material support comes from the USA. If the US is tiring of this all of the sudden, then the front collapses and Putin gets his "prestige victory" and stays in office. They are all dreaming of Putin being assassinated or somehow else removed (i personally hope he dies off butt cancer or something), but this really, once again, depends on the US. A few German tanks won't do . It's miserable. It's shameful.

[Kyriakos]

Your statement is nonsensical. Russia has the bulk of the ex USSR military industry, the massive majority of all its old produce in storage. Russia was a major arms supplier Ukraine a minor one thus the capacity to produce new weapons is vastly different.

Tally up just the missile strikes Kyriakos and ask yourself what exactly Greek industry would be churning out right now after a year of that on its own? How many days of ammunition of say 155mm shells does Greece have on hand if used at the rate the Ukrainians are using ammo? Looking at the list of major equipment of the Hellenic army in not seeing a ton Made in Greece.

Come on, no reason to bring no-high-end building Greece into this, let alone when you spoke of ammunition depleted as a reply to a post about asking for MORE machinery that eats up said ammunition