View Poll Results: Whom do you support and to what extent?

Voters
107. You may not vote on this poll
  • I support Ukraine fully.

    71 66.36%
  • I support Russia fully.

    12 11.21%
  • I only support Russia's claim over Crimea.

    4 3.74%
  • I only support Russia's claim over Crimea and Donbass (Luhansk and Donetsk regions).

    6 5.61%
  • Not sure.

    7 6.54%
  • I don't care.

    7 6.54%

Thread: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

  1. #4981

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by z3n View Post
    What exactly is years old about the date of April 30th 2021?
    About how by it's own testimony it largely concerns incidents from 2014-2015. That's about 7 years ago which qualifies as years ago.
    The Armenian Issue
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/group.php?groupid=1930

    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  2. #4982
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, USA
    Posts
    16,887

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by z3n View Post
    What exactly is years old about the date of April 30th 2021?
    On the fifth page of your 2021 document it directly references reports, numbers, and incidents from 2014, 2015, and 2016. Those were years ago. Guess that's why when you quoted the Ukrainians committed the majority of violations you didn't bother to post the year they were referencing.

    Funny reading that source though. You definitely were nit-picking as reading the report the so called "self proclaimed republics" are responsible for a lot of the violations themselves. From arbitrary detentions to torture. You funny enough failed to mention any of that.
    Last edited by Vanoi; August 11, 2022 at 07:39 PM.

  3. #4983

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Just checking in: what's the latest news? Is the incompetent atrocity resistant Russian casualty magnet any match for the Ukrainian fake democracy American puppet regime?

  4. #4984
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praepositus
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    5,557

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    Just checking in: what's the latest news? Is the incompetent atrocity resistant Russian casualty magnet any match for the Ukrainian fake democracy American puppet regime?
    Well, we're more than 5 months in and Russia still can't take out Ukraine's airforce, can't achieve its initial stated goals (Donbas), and can't achieve its very obvious unstated goals.

  5. #4985
    Mithradates's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Hungary
    Posts
    1,991

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    You think they would learn from their mistakes. The Wagner HQ in the Donbas was destroyed by Ukraine in a HIMARS strike.
    It was easy to geolocate them because Russian propaganda showed their address to everybody

    There is also an interesting rumor that at the time of the attack Yevgeny Prigozhin, known as Putin's cook, may have been in the building.
    According to information from Western intelligence services, Prigozhin is the head of the Wagner group.


  6. #4986
    AqD's Avatar 。◕‿◕。
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    🏡🐰🐿️🐴🌳
    Posts
    10,847

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    Just checking in: what's the latest news? Is the incompetent atrocity resistant Russian casualty magnet any match for the Ukrainian fake democracy American puppet regime?
    No worries, you still have several months to keep paying for Ukrainian military and soon their food bills.

  7. #4987

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    A Portuguese, a Dutch and a German walk into a bar.

    The German has no LNG.
    It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else.

    -George Orwell

  8. #4988

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus View Post
    Just checking in: what's the latest news? Is the incompetent atrocity resistant Russian casualty magnet any match for the Ukrainian fake democracy American puppet regime?
    Ukraine is trying to overwhelm Russian superior firepower with its numerically superior manpower, while journos on both side fantasize about massive offensives from 2 military eras ago.

  9. #4989

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Ukraine is trying to overwhelm Russian superior firepower with its numerically superior manpower, while journos on both side fantasize about massive offensives from 2 military eras ago.
    Quite the opposite in fact.

    It seems to be this: on Donbas front, Ukraine is slowly allowing Russians to gain ground at WWI pace and tactics, while conserving their numbers and wearing out the Russian supply. They seem to be gearing up for offensive in the south, potentially encircling the troops in Kherson oblast. Ukraine seems to be successfully concentrating on taking out high-value targets behind the front, hitting targets even 200km behind the front with pinpoint precision, probably using combination of special forces, precision strikes from yet uncertain types of missiles (speculations are abound whether they received long range missiles for HIMARS, using modified Neptune missiles or they deployed the Grom-2 that's supposed to be in testing phase) and partisan actions using civilian drones (at least two smaller ammo dumps in Crimea are suspected to be taken out this way).

  10. #4990

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Zelensky bragged about mobilizing over 1 million men, while Russians have barely over a 1-200k there, by NATO estimates.
    Its kinda like Korean war, where Ukrainians lack firepower, but compensate by throwing waves of poorly trained conscripts at Russian lines, which makes Russians happy since it allows them to preserve their manpower while wearing out that of Ukraine as well as what remains of its resources.
    Time also works for Russia, since EU is basically funding Russian war effort, not that they have a choice since they need resources more then they need the proxy-regime in Kiev.

  11. #4991
    Mithradates's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Hungary
    Posts
    1,991

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Zelensky bragged about mobilizing over 1 million men, while Russians have barely over a 1-200k there, by NATO estimates.
    Its kinda like Korean war, where Ukrainians lack firepower, but compensate by throwing waves of poorly trained conscripts at Russian lines, which makes Russians happy since it allows them to preserve their manpower while wearing out that of Ukraine as well as what remains of its resources.
    Time also works for Russia, since EU is basically funding Russian war effort, not that they have a choice since they need resources more then they need the proxy-regime in Kiev.
    haha this "Russians preserve their manpower" reminded me how Putin revives Stalin-era 'Mother Heroine' award for women with 10 children
    Originally, the honor was introduced by Joseph Stalin after World War II. The timing is probably just a coincidence.

    -

    Russia allegedly tells nuclear power plant workers not to go to work Friday amid concerns of a planned incident

    “There is new information, it arrived about half an hour ago, that for tomorrow, August 19, there is an order for the majority of the staff not to go to work,” Yusov told NBC News.

    “This is what the Russians told their people, primarily the employees of Rosatom,” he said, referring to the Russian nuclear agency.

    He said that this might be evidence that Russia is preparing “large-scale provocations” at the power plant Friday.

    ...
    Earlier Thursday, the Russian Defense Ministry accused Ukraine and what it called its “U.S. handlers” of trying to stage a “minor accident” at the plant in southern Ukraine on Friday in order to blame Russia.
    *takes an iodine tablet*

  12. #4992

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    You don't really need to bother. Here's a prediction of a likely dispersal if an incident occurs: https://twitter.com/ukraine_world/st...70933566771201

    It looks menacing... until you look at the units on the colour bar. They're in nanoBecquerels per cubic metre. A Becquerel is a unit of radioactivity equivalent to one decay per second; an exceedingly small quantity of radiation (and a nanoBecquerel is a billionth of that). For reference, a normal human body has a radioactivity of ~8000Bq (mainly from Potassium-40 and Carbon-14). In other words, any radioactivity you're likely to experience in Hungary from this will be a fraction of the normal background radiation at sea level.

  13. #4993
    nhytgbvfeco2's Avatar Praepositus
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    5,557

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    "Russia is conserving its manpower" has to be one of the worst takes I've read on this website. Congratulations HH. You know, that acronym reminds me, how come you of all people are supporting a "denazification" war?

  14. #4994
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Nehekhara
    Posts
    17,052

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer View Post
    Zelensky bragged about mobilizing over 1 million men, while Russians have barely over a 1-200k there, by NATO estimates.
    Its kinda like Korean war, where Ukrainians lack firepower, but compensate by throwing waves of poorly trained conscripts at Russian lines, which makes Russians happy since it allows them to preserve their manpower while wearing out that of Ukraine as well as what remains of its resources.
    Time also works for Russia, since EU is basically funding Russian war effort, not that they have a choice since they need resources more then they need the proxy-regime in Kiev.
    This would be a good story if Russian soldiers were actually well equiped to being with and did not have to steal socks and pants and helmets from dead Ukrainian soldiers to even be able to fight properly.
    Under the patronage of Pie the Inkster Click here to find a hidden gem on the forum!


  15. #4995
    Mithradates's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Hungary
    Posts
    1,991

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Laser101 View Post
    You don't really need to bother. Here's a prediction of a likely dispersal if an incident occurs: https://twitter.com/ukraine_world/st...70933566771201

    It looks menacing... until you look at the units on the colour bar. They're in nanoBecquerels per cubic metre. A Becquerel is a unit of radioactivity equivalent to one decay per second; an exceedingly small quantity of radiation (and a nanoBecquerel is a billionth of that). For reference, a normal human body has a radioactivity of ~8000Bq (mainly from Potassium-40 and Carbon-14). In other words, any radioactivity you're likely to experience in Hungary from this will be a fraction of the normal background radiation at sea level.



    Yes, it wouldnt be as near as severe as the 1986 Chernobyl disaster and more likely be similar in scale to the 2011 Fukushima nuclear crisis, but the fear of radiation could be more dangerous than the radiation itself, panic, mass evacuation, people rushing to hospitals etc.

    *takes another iodine tablet*

  16. #4996

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithradates View Post



    Yes, it wouldnt be as near as severe as the 1986 Chernobyl disaster and more likely be similar in scale to the 2011 Fukushima nuclear crisis, but the fear of radiation could be more dangerous than the radiation itself, panic, mass evacuation, people rushing to hospitals etc.

    *takes another iodine tablet*
    Iodine isn't a general preventative measure against radiation; it's only used to 'fill up' the thyroid gland with non-radioactive iodine in order to prevent the accumulation of iodine-131. Since iodine-131 only has a half-life of 8 days, this is really only relevant if you're in the immediate vicinity of an accident.

  17. #4997

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...sia-and-crimea

    Fires and explosions have been reported at military targets inside Russia and Russian-occupied parts of Ukraine, in the latest of a string of apparent sabotage missions deep into Russian-held territory.
    Two Russian villages were evacuated after a blaze at a munitions depot near the Ukrainian border in Belgorod province. “An ammunition depot caught fire near the village of Timonovo”, less than 50km from the border, regional governor Vyacheslav Gladkov said in a statement, adding that no casualties were reported.

    At least four explosions hit near the major Belbek airbase, north of Sevastopol in the occupied Crimean peninsula. The pro-Russia governor of Sevastopol, Mikhail Razvozhayev, said: “There is no damage. No one was hurt.”
    Air defences were also activated near Kerch, the city at the Crimean end of a bridge to mainland Russia, which is a strategically vital supply route that many in Ukraine would like to see destroyed. Local media said a Ukrainian drone was shot down.
    The Ukrainian defence ministry put out a tongue-in-cheek tweet after footage of fires in Timonovo spread, with the brief message “smoking kills!”.
    "No one was hurt! Ignore those charred corpses, they're fake news!"

    Along with the estimated 20,000 Russian troops on the west bank of the Dnipro River who are trapped and as good as dead, this is a major blow to Russia.

  18. #4998
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Colfax WA, neat I have a barn and 49 acres - I have 2 horses, 15 chickens - but no more pigs
    Posts
    15,237

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Zelensky bragged about mobilizing over 1 million men, while Russians have barely over a 1-200k there, by NATO estimates.
    Its kinda like Korean war, where Ukrainians lack firepower, but compensate by throwing waves of poorly trained conscripts at Russian lines, which makes Russians happy since it allows them to preserve their manpower while wearing out that of Ukraine as well as what remains of its resources.
    Nothing indicates the Ukrainians are using the tactics you suggest.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  19. #4999
    dogukan's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Middle freaking east
    Posts
    7,770

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    HH is a great example of how far right populism, conspiracies and polarizing attitude that saturate the social media is heavily linked to Russian intelligence activities that are used to destabilize-dissolve the WEstern alliance.

    The sources that feed many far right populist figures are often tied to Russian sources all over the social media and traditional media. From radical left to radical right, they saturate the information scenery with so much competing ideas, conspiracies and debates that finding the truth becomes imposible and various factions fall on each other fighting.

    Russia had mastered this strategy since 2014. The invasion of Ukraine however made revealing them much more easier. Even better, I saw so many far right and left figures fall into confusion when they saw the sources they follow were so obviously pro-Russian all of a sudden. This latter detail had been an amazing boost to centrist-liberal order as Russia had to reveal so many "agents" all of a sudden in a desperate attempt to stop support for Ukraine in the West.

    The hit to Russian prestige is already immense. The fact that Ukranian army went through thousands of visually confirmed "decades old reserves" of Russian army in 6 months is also mindblowing. Russian army seems like an overgrown third world force compared to NATO professionalism and technological edge if we exclude nukes. No wonder Russians still had to rely so much on their greatest weapon; polarizing propaganda to break democratic countries' stability.
    Last edited by alhoon; August 19, 2022 at 10:43 PM. Reason: personal references removed
    "Therefore I am not in favour of raising any dogmatic banner. On the contrary, we must try to help the dogmatists to clarify their propositions for themselves. Thus, communism, in particular, is a dogmatic abstraction; in which connection, however, I am not thinking of some imaginary and possible communism, but actually existing communism as taught by Cabet, Dézamy, Weitling, etc. This communism is itself only a special expression of the humanistic principle, an expression which is still infected by its antithesis – the private system. Hence the abolition of private property and communism are by no means identical, and it is not accidental but inevitable that communism has seen other socialist doctrines – such as those of Fourier, Proudhon, etc. – arising to confront it because it is itself only a special, one-sided realisation of the socialist principle."
    Marx to A.Ruge

  20. #5000

    Default Re: Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Nothing indicates the Ukrainians are using the tactics you suggest.
    Do you have a source or are you just vaguely gainsaying against facts you don't like again?
    Quote Originally Posted by dogukan View Post
    HH is a great example of how far right populism, conspiracies and polarizing attitude that saturate the social media is heavily linked to Russian intelligence activities that are used to destabilize-dissolve the WEstern alliance.

    Of course I am not saying he is a Russian agent but the sources that feed many far right populist figures are often tied to Russian sources all over the social media and traditional media. From radical left to radical right, they saturate the information scenery with so much competing ideas, conspiracies and debates that finding the truth becomes imposible and various factions fall on each other fighting.

    Russia had mastered this strategy since 2014. The invasion of Ukraine however made revealing them much more easier. Even better, I saw so many far right and left figures fall into confusion when they saw the sources they follow were so obviously pro-Russian all of a sudden. This latter detail had been an amazing boost to centrist-liberal order as Russia had to reveal so many "agents" all of a sudden in a desperate attempt to stop support for Ukraine in the West.

    The hit to Russian prestige is already immense. The fact that Ukranian army went through thousands of visually confirmed "decades old reserves" of Russian army in 6 months is also mindblowing. Russian army seems like an overgrown third world force compared to NATO professionalism and technological edge if we exclude nukes. No wonder Russians still had to rely so much on their greatest weapon; polarizing propaganda to break democratic countries' stability.
    This post is a good example of how Western narrative not only divorced itself from objective reality, but is also actively repeating Russian political propaganda from 5 years ago with only symbolic changes.
    Reason why Western population wants to replace its crappy governments has nothing to do with Russia, and mainly has a lot to do with corruption and crimes of the ruling classes as well as obsolete and archaic financial system. I guess if it wasn't for le evil Russia bear, Western alphabet agencies and billionaires would be just blaming Jews again. That doesn't apply to all of the West of course, some countries, like that of Hungary, seem to still have government with surprising presence of common sense.
    Also I wouldn't talk about prestige blows given how NATO just got curbstomped by a bunch of angry mountain villagers with Aks in Afghanistan. Conventional militaries seem to be somewhat obsolete in modern day and age, be it Russia or NATO.
    Last edited by Heathen Hammer; August 19, 2022 at 12:10 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •