Russia, US, Ukraine, and the Future

[nhytgbvfeco2]

So Putin pulled a Bush. "Preemptive military action" because NATO was just about to invade Crimea.

I wonder what all these invisible NATO invasion forces have been doing for the past two months.

No, you see, NATO was about to invade, so Russia went and failed to defeat Ukraine in a 1vs1, because that'll scare NATO off from invading mighty Russia.

[Laser101]

No my Friend, the enemy is confined to the areas of East and South with barely any success for months and retreated from North and North East. Things may escalate though if Russia drafts a million more soldiers and makes a breakthrough threatening major cities, in which case Ukraine may need more infantry even of low quality.

I don't think the Russians could even support a million troops; IIRC they only had around 200000 or so at the start (and presumably less now). Trying to raise that many troops would create catastrophic supply problems, and probably require a large-scale conscription effort in major urban centers (which would risk causing riots).

[conon394]

I don't think the Russians could even support a million troops; IIRC they only had around 200000 or so at the start (and presumably less now). Trying to raise that many troops would create catastrophic supply problems, and probably require a large-scale conscription effort in major urban centers (which would risk causing riots).

Yes I can't see Ivan and Yuri from any important Russian city being tossed in. But I could see reservists and or conscripts who sign contracts at the boarder from rural backwaters being mobilized. Not enough say for the big win, but enough to keep grinding out the affair in the Donbas past the point where Ukraine has the manpower to match, before sanctions really start to bite Russia. seems a waiting game now. The US looks all in with a what a 40 billion dollar aid package that seems now to not be tethered from cross aisle attachments. How fast that produces results is unclear and how fast can Europe really get off Russian oil/gas before the winter. And who feels the most pain out of the agricultural disruptions.

[Alastor]

Instead we've been bombarded with the views of a handful of posters who regularly inundate the thread with apologetics, pro-Kremlin attitudes, Putin fandom, downplaying of Ukrainian identity, and advocation for Russian imperialism.

You must be talking about some other thread.

[Bande Nere]

You must be talking about some other thread.

A belated happy birthday, kid

[Ludicus]

Of course there is a but - your posting is a the same story with many faces,

Don't mix facts and political opinions.You claimed that the Portuguese army abandoned East Timor, and I explained that the bloody dictator Suharto invaded East Timor with the approval of the US President Ford, etc...these are facts, not opinions.

Blood of the massacred on the civil war is on the hands of those who handled the de-colonization process

This is a myth defended by those who wanted to remain in the colonies for much longer.You couldn't ask the occupying armies (200,000 troops!) to keep fighting,after the Liberation movements, formerly called "terrorists", were legalized. The civil wars that followed in Angola and Mozambique were inevitable (partly tribal wars), with participation of the great powers that fought among themselves (US; USSR, CHINA- and South Africa and Cuba).I must say that our exit from the colonies was much less chaotic than the US exit from Afghanistan, and the US is a superpower. Afghanistan is about 1.9 times smaller than Angola, and don't forget Mozambique and Guinea, not counting East Timor.
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Now, a political opinion,its about double standards. General Pedro de Pezarat Correia
Traduttore, traditore. Ucrânia - Uma Guerra Preventiva / Ukraine - A Preventive War

In the light of polemology, the theory of conflict, Russia's military intervention in Ukraine is undoubtedly a war of pre-emptive aggression and, as such, illegitimate. It is a "privilege" that is reserved for the strong against the weak, in particular the great powers that, through the unfair and undemocratic power of veto in the UN Security Council, enjoy a status of impunity.

It should not be confused with preemptive, or anticipatory, warfare. As Joseph S. Nye Jr. rightly says, "There is a difference between preemptive warfare and preventive warfare. An attack by anticipation occurs when war is imminent. A preemptive war occurs when politicians merely believe that war is better now than later”

Preventive war is, according to the doctrine issued by the UN, an aggression, unlike preemptive war considered a legitimate defense.
"International law has always unambiguously prohibited preemptive strikes. The current justification of preemptive strikes and wars conducted in the name of security sabotages the foundations of sovereignty and makes national borders increasingly obsolete." (Michael Hardt et Antonio Negri, Multitude – guerre et démocratie à l’âge de l’empire. La Découverte, Paris, 2004, p. 37)

The post-Cold War interstate wars in which the major powers have intervened have generally been pre-emptive. In Yugoslavia, and later in Serbia, in Afghanistan, in Latin America, in Georgia, in Iraq, and now in Ukraine, in none of them has the US, NATO or Russian military intervention been pre-emptive, in the face of imminent aggression.
Some were merely punitive actions, others were preventive, in order to avert an alleged future threat. The immediate cause now invoked by Russia falls exactly within this framework: Ukraine's eventual membership in NATO was a direct threat to its security. Faced with the dilemma of intervening after Ukraine has already joined NATO, or before, Russia decided to take the initiative and act now.

After joining, intervention would already be against a NATO country, therefore, according to Article 5 of the Treaty, against NATO as a whole, which would drag out the catastrophe of a world war, probably reaching the nuclear level. With membership complete, Russia would be prevented from acting. These will be Russia's arguments, but there is no doubt, Moscow has committed an illegitimate act of aggression. But it is not the only one.

Illegitimate and of aggression was, to cite only the most blatant one and one from which we still suffer the effects, the invasion of Iraq by the US and UK in 2003. The difference is that in 2003 there was not this orchestrated "universal" outcry, this avalanche of economic sanctions that we are all going to, or rather, are already enduring.I do not recall that in 2003, despite the fact that, as today, the invasion was condemned by the vast majority of public opinion and by the UN itself and had dramatic humanitarian, economic and polemic consequences at a regional and global level that still persist today. After all, aggressors, like nuclear weapons, are not all equal; there are the good ones, our aggressors, and the bad ones, the others.

I would also point out that, when Yugoslavia was dismantled by the "West", several voices (myself included) warned of the dangerous precedent that was being created. Ukraine, which is exactly in line with this prisoner logic, is there to remind us that we were right.

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Reuters’s interview with Natalia Usmanova. Ukrainian evacuee recounts terror in the bunkers of Azovstal
Reuters published only part of what she said, to give the impression that she blamed the Russians.It's a fact.

Germany's Spiegel deletes testimony critical of Ukraine.

Citing “discrepancies in content,” the German magazine Der Spiegel has removed a video showing the testimony of an evacuee from Mariupol’s ‘Azovstal’ factory,
Another German outlet, Junge Welt, noticed the deletion on Thursday evening. According to JW, Der Spiegel published the three-minute video on Monday. It featured Natalia Usmanova, who had worked at Azovstal before the conflict and sheltered there with her husband and children.

In the recording, Usmanova tells reporters that Azov militants “kept us in the bunker” for two months and did not allow her family to leave using the humanitarian corridors established by Russian troops..Usmanova’s testimony directly contradicts the claims by Azov militants and the government in Kiev that Russia is preventing the evacuation of civilians from the Azovstal complex.

What she said, and was edit ”as a citizen of Ukraine, as I have to say that this state as state is dead for me... I have a question, why people were held in city?..the Ukranian army simply did not allow ordinary people to leave.Neither chidren nor elderly or the sick.I want to ask why and for what?”
I saw the full video. - minute 20, unedit -Unite Nations Session. https://media.un.org/en/asset/k1p/k1pvngjn8e
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Giorgio Bianchi, Ukraine: The Silent War - Photographs and text by Giorgio

I can understand Russia propaganda, I can understand Ukrainian propaganda,what remains incomprehensible to me is is European propaganda

Anne-Laure Bonnel, video from March.


In 2015, the French journalist and film director, Anne-Laure Bonnel, decides to go to the Donbass region in the east of Ukraine to capture the terrible images of a deadly conflict and an unprecedented humanitarian disaster. English subtitles




From the news. The ineffable Trump,

Former President Trump complained about America’s “ugly” Navy ships while in office and said Russia’s looked better, former Secretary of Defense Mark Esper reportedly wrote in his new book.

[Cyclops]

Why does the response to Russia illegally invading a neighbouring power, with imprecise allegations, but clearly intent on further annexation trigger this response of "but the US in Iraq and somehow they helped in Timor L'este". If those were wrong this is wrong.

I don't know so much about Timor L'Este, but Iraq was wrong. The perpetrators should be punished. We have an opportunity to punish the perpetrator in Russia. Its another land grab like 2014. Morally its wrong, Putin's attack is based on lies and cruelty.

Pointing out hat Ukraine is a post Soviet state with corruption and Nazi problems is correct, but as a justification for Russia' invasion its empty criticism, by any metric Russia is worse and Russia doesn't get to unilaterally punish Ukraine for Russian defined crimes.

Pragmatically Russia may declare a "red line" in Ukraine but if they do its up them to enforce it and they have failed. "NATO shall not..." but its failed, the Scandinavian states are joining NATO now. Pragmatically Putin needs to go back in his box if they want to be treated like a normal diplomatic player. The conditions he has set for Ukraine give him a justification to make war along his entire western frontier.

Both morally and pragmatically the invasion is wrong, and for both moral and pragmatic reasons Russia should suffer real consequences while it has Putin as its leader. Putin does not give a stuff about disapproval or opprobrium, he's murdered defectors and political opponents quite cold bloodedly. Pragmatic measures are needed to punish his regime. This is morally and pragmatically justified. Referring to cases from two or five decades ago doesn't alter the present reality.

[Nebaki]

The problem is equipment that will take months to reach us.

Well there is always a demand from you guys on equipment from small basic needs, small arms to wide range of heavy arms or even Fighters - We all know that such mix of equipment cannot be maintained long (costs, standards) and there is the question was will happen to them later when the War is over. For example we already seeing the wide range of corruption the Russian Armed Forces - from replaced Military Electronic Units with standards from the Industry or Canon Cams on their Drones for End Users. But of course corruption is everythere and Ukrainian Armed Forces is no exception there while i think it´s not on a such scale like the russian one.

No my Friend, the enemy is confined to the areas of East and South with barely any success for months and retreated from North and North East. Things may escalate though if Russia drafts a million more soldiers and makes a breakthrough threatening major cities, in which case Ukraine may need more infantry even of low quality.

Well don´t get me wrong but the Russian Doctrine on Warfare is very different and a little bit beyond what the West is understanding on it since there is the part of the Morale while the russian Warfare is lacking that. Russia is just expending their Human Capital aswell Stuff of his Military. There is no such a thing of handle/make use/apply of his Military - they get used for one certain goal and don´t get repaired/cured to be used later or saved for some Moral case.

[fkizz]

Don't mix facts and political opinions.You claimed that the Portuguese army abandoned East Timor, and I explained that the bloody dictator Suharto invaded East Timor with the approval of the US President Ford, etc...these are facts, not opinions.

Where were our Armed Forces defending against the Indonesian offense? Did they... abandon East Timor? Or do a counter-offensive?

Also, your point of view that NATO caused Putin to invade Ukraine etc. Was already said by Putin himself on Mayday Parade. Pro-Putin agenda I get it.

No offense, you offer interesting sources but one already knows the end game agenda, the many different faces many different speeches saying exactly the same thing, every single time.

This highly hurts your credibility, in a self harm way. Makes things like discussing civil war in Africa look like a waste of time.

This is tiring and honestly gives not much patience to engage. I'm indirectly giving you advice on how to increase quality of our posts, but it's futile. I no longer have patience to read through "different" files and "povs" that always say the same things. Many "different" faces, same story.

[Lord Thesaurian]

I no longer have patience to read through "different" files and "povs" that always say the same things. Many "different" faces, same story.

Tbf, the first page of “America bad” Google search results can only fit so many links.

[conon394]

Looks it might be another bad day for Putin

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidax...h=753c808b4409

If the Ukrainian forces really can turn south it would very impressive. And again raise the question what is the Russian air force being paid to do? Because it seems like not fighting much.

[Cyclops]

Looks it might be another bad day for Putin

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidax...h=753c808b4409

If the Ukrainian forces really can turn south it would very impressive. And again raise the question what is the Russian air force being paid to do? Because it seems like not fighting much.

That's an unthinkable scenario, that the Kessler would be kesselled. Then again the idea the advances toward Kyiv would be stopped and expelled was unthinkable a few weeks ago too.

i strongly suspect close cooperation with US intel capabilities has kept the Russians quiet in the skies, just as they have been swept from the sea. It is definitely a proxy war and Putin is dangerously incompetent for having started it.

It'd be quite good for world peace if Putin's forces were expelled altogether from Ukraine. Vicious territorial conquest is plainly wrong, a severe punishment might deter him and others.

[Ludicus]

Where were our Armed Forces defending against the Indonesian offense?

It was impossible to defend Timor, as it was impossible to defend Goa in 1961. Sadly we did not have the Azov battalion defending Timor or Goa to the last man.

East Timor is part of an island in the Timor sea.The other half belongs to Indonesia. During a meeting between President Suharto and Australian Prime Minister Whitlam in early September 1974, the latter stressed his conviction that Portuguese Timor should be integrated into Indonesia. The invasion was approved by the United States, which authorized Indonesia to use the weapons they had been offered, Indonesia had a naval force far superior to the Portuguese, who would have to move from the other side of the world. I know why you pretend not to understand this.I know that the right gets irritated when the “benefits of colonialism” are not recognized, in fact, over many years I have never heard the right criticize the European colonialism, Salazar, Franco,Pinochet or the military dictatorship in Brazil.Never.The repression by Salazar's political police filled the prisons with left wing dissidents. The right always coexisted very well with Salazar's dictatorship, as well as with all fascist and authoritarian regimes in the five continents.

I'm indirectly giving you advice on how to increase quality of our posts

I could answer you with a erotic poem by Bocage, but that would not be allowed here.

Pro-Putin agenda I get it.

I don't care what you think of me.

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Tbf, the first page of “America bad” Google search results can only fit so many links.

Its more than enough to read the American newspapers.What you don't like to hear is the truth. If the Pax Americana has encouraged and supported political pluralism in Europe, in the third world it has preferred to rely on dictatorships and authoritarian regimes. This mode of asserting authority reveals the colonial origin of the Pax Americana. Just as the British Empire supported despotism in India and democracy in Canada, the American Empire supported despotism in the "third worlds" and democracy in Northern Europe. The cultural and racial assumptions of American elites implied that non-Western peoples would have to go through decades of American tutelage and a process of "modernization" before being granted basic rights.

Robert Kazan, a conservative author,once called for the creation of a U.S. Colonial Office. According to Karl Rove,”We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality”.According to another American author,Kaplan "America is riding the world like a colossus... Since Rome destroyed Carthage no power has risen to the heights risen to the heights where we are now"; almost twenty years ago Charles Fairbanks told an audience at the Michigan University that America was “ an empire in formation”. Yale Professor Paul Kennedy went further, predicting that America’s ruin from imperial overreach. 'It takes an empire,' say several U.S. thinkers - the World NYTimes. 2002

Americans are used to being told - typically by resentful foreigners - that they are imperialists. But lately some of the nation's own eminent thinkers are embracing the idea. More astonishing, they are using the term with approval.

As we can see, the fiercest critics are very often the Americans themselves. Most of the texts I have been quoting are published in the USA. The authors have a healthy sense of self-criticism.
More from the US press, Ukraine: The Deadly Illusion of “Victory” | The Nation

America stands with Ukraine until victory is won,” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi declared on May 1, after traveling to Kyiv for a meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. Victory? What exactly does Pelosi mean by “victory”? Does that entail the total defeat of Russian forces and their expulsion from all of Ukraine? That can only be accomplished through the participation of US and NATO forces—a scenario that would almost certainly result in a Europe-wide war, with an attendant risk of nuclear escalation. Or does she mean a meat-grinder war aimed at weakening Russia to the point where it is no longer able to fight NATO, as suggested by Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin after visiting Kyiv a few days earlier?

That might, conceivably, avert a nuclear war, but would surely result in hundreds of thousands of dead Ukrainian and Russian soldiers and civilians, and leave Ukraine itself in ruins.
Nowhere, in her comments or those by other high-ranking US officials, is there any talk of a negotiated settlement in Ukraine, only of scenarios leading to Russia’s defeat, at whatever cost in human lives.

A Ukrainian pledge to permanently forswear membership in NATO and grant limited autonomy to breakaway regions in the Donbas, combined with a Russian vow to withdraw its forces from the rest of the country, might have provided the basis for a cease-fire and then more formal negotiations on Ukraine’s long-term status. But aside from some ill-fated diplomacy by Presidents Emmanuel Macron of France and Recep Tayyip of Turkey, little effort was made to pursue this lifesaving course.
President Putin and Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, have also warned that a major Russian reversal—one that posed a threat to the survival of the state—could result in the use of nuclear weapons.
None of this, however, seems to have diminished US leaders’ determination to increase the pressure on Russia and to keep raising it until Moscow capitulates—however illusionary this might seem.
What is called for, then, is not illusionary promises of “victory” but rather a serious international effort to stop the fighting now, before more people perish, or the war escalates into something a whole lot worse.

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In fact, how long can the war in Ukraine continue? “Years”, says the US intelligence. Which means, in the long run, the economic destruction of Europe and the devastation of Ukraine. CIA knows that the Russia’s military and economic stranglehold may trigger the use of tactical nuclear weapons. No, Europe is not united, not every country wants an endless war but sadly, a significant number of western European leaders don't seem to care.

Ukraine stopped the flow of Russian natural gas through one of the hubs that feed Western European homes and industry Ukraine cuts Russian gas flowing to Europe via key pipeline
Zelenky blames Russian forces of interfering with gas infrastructure in a part of eastern Ukraine controlled by separatists. It’s the “price of liberty”, I heard Zelensky saying on TV.

Meanwhile Russia's FM Lavrov visits Algeria as EU steps up push for alternative gas.

industry experts say Algeria lacks the infrastructure and spare capacity to raise gas exports to replace Russian supplies in the short term, something the government has stressed repeatedly as it seeks to avoid offending its longtime ally.

Spain aligns with Morocco, risking gas links,Algeria threatens to cut gas contract with Spain

OPEC Warns The EU That Replacing Russian Oil Will Be nearly impossible

And finally... Natural gas prices in Europe jump after Ukraine blocks

Chomsky Fight to last Ukrainian

Washington's position now is to fight to the last Ukrainian," he said. "Not my words, I'm quoting one of the most astute and respected members of the diplomatic service, former ambassador to Saudi Arabia, Chas Freeman. "He has described in some detail US strategy, and in his words, it's fight to the last Ukraine but don't have a negotiated settlement. Don't offer a way out — that's US policy.

As Noam Chomsky recently put in an interview there are, broadly speaking, two ways for a war to end: The first is for one side to be destroyed; the second is for the two sides to negotiate a settlement. Noam Chomsky on How To Prevent World War III

(...) there’s praise for the marvelous courage of someone who says Putin is a war criminal.
You can read articles in the prestigious Atlantic Council expressing intense moral outrage about Russia’s hideous crimes in Ukraine. You take a look at the people who were writing those articles, go back a couple of years, they were issuing praise for the marvelous achievement of the invasion of Iraq, using rhetoric which would have embarrassed the most abject apparatchik in Russia praising the noble intentions, the effort to bring democracy to backward Iraq.

People in the Global South don’t have to be reminded. They’ve been at the receiving end of terror and torture. About an hour ago, I had an interview with Belgian state television. We were talking about this, and brought up some recent crimes like Belgium’s assassination of [Congolese independence leader] Patrice Lumumba, who was the hope for Africa. The major country of Africa, the Congo, suffered hideously under Belgian atrocities, even worse than most of the European atrocities, which is a pretty high bar to get over. Then they finally decolonized in 1960: the main country in Africa, enormous resources, could have been a rich country, it was leading Africa towards freedom and development. The U.S. and Belgium weren’t having that. Eisenhower issued a hit; CIA was supposed to murder Lumumba. They didn’t manage. Belgian intelligence got there first and turned Congo into a horror chamber ever since.

That’s not ancient history. People in the Global South know those things. They know about Iraq, Central America, and Vietnam. They know what we’ve done. So when they hear these pronouncements, they just either crack up in ridicule or can’t believe what’s going on in this uncivilized, barbaric area of the world that is Europe and the United States.

It won't be long before this Europe begins to suffer more intensely the consequences of this war. It is almost inconceivable, truly surreal, to hear European leaders say they believe Ukraine will win the war, and the Americans saying they are in this war to win it, although it will take years.The Gods must be crazy.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Its more than enough to read the American newspapers.

Like this one?

Don’t Be a Tankie: How the Left Should Respond to Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine

Those who don’t stand in solidarity with the oppressed cannot call themselves leftists.

Unfortunately, a small but loud faction that claims to be on the left and to be anti-imperialist has for years backed deeply oppressive dictatorships around the world, from Syria’s Bashar al-Assad, who declared war against his own people, to the Chinese government, which has forcibly detained up to a million Turkic Muslims in internment camps, to Nicaragua’s Daniel Ortega, who abandoned the left many years ago and now rules over his country as a right-wing dictator.

These pseudo-leftists — sometimes called “tankies,” a name deriving from an earlier generation of Western leftists who backed the Soviet invasion of Hungary in 1956 — also defend Russia’s behavior today. Other commentators like Gilbert Achcar and Dan La Botz have explained this crowd’s origins in detail, but the key element in the tankie mindset is the simple-minded assumption that only the U.S. can be imperialist, and thus any country that opposes the U.S. must be supported. As author and human rights activist Leila Al-Shami put it several years ago, “The pro-fascist left seems blind to any form of imperialism that is non-western in origin. It combines identity politics with egoism. Everything that happens is viewed through the prism of what it means for westerners — only white men have the power to make history.”

In the present context, the tankies either directly defend, or make excuses for, Putin and Russia, even though the government is phenomenally corrupt, a crony capitalist regime led by a thug who assassinates his political opponents. The tankies tend to be correctly critical and probing about U.S. empire but don’t apply these critical faculties to Russia. They become gullible and naïve when dealing with Russian officials and their narrative. It would be tempting simply to ignore the tankies, but we must repudiate them. If we don’t, they will continue to give the left a bad name, especially among people fighting repressive regimes, who often assume tankies speak for the rest of us and thus feel betrayed by Western leftists.

What the tankies fail to acknowledge is that Putin’s regime is as deeply reactionary socially as it is repressive politically. That’s why right-wing extremists in western Europe and the U.S., including Tucker Carlson and Steve Bannon, have applauded him, and why neo-Nazis have celebrated him as the savior of the white race. In supporting Putin, the tankies are in league with the far right.

https://theintercept.com/2022/03/01/...ftists-tankie/

Twenty years ago Charles Fairbanks told an audience at the Michigan University that America was “ an empire in formation”.

20 years ago eh? We must be getting to page 2 of Google at this point.

The cultural and racial assumptions of American elites implied that non-Western peoples would have to go through decades of American tutelage and a process of "modernization" before being granted basic rights.

Idk who implied this but you’ve stated it explicitly as justification for claiming people like Afghans or other “third world” groups like the Vietnamese are culturally incapable of sustaining pluralistic, democratic governance, even citing a segregationist US politician to support your view - just as you deny the agency of the Ukrainian people today.

[antaeus]

I'm not entirely certain how anybody could reconcile being anti-colonialist, and be OK with any of the stated Russian justifications for it's action in Ukraine:

Its goal is to protect people who have been subjected to bullying and genocide by the Kyiv regime for eight years. And for this we will strive for the demilitarisation and denazification of Ukraine, as well as bringing to justice those who committed numerous, bloody crimes against civilians, including citizens of the Russian Federation

- https://theprint.in/world/full-text-...kraine/845714/

This kind of explanation has been used as the basis for annexation of independent territory or parts thereof for centuries: "we have to do it to protect people from their current state of disorder or oppression at the hands of the current rulers" - loosely, it was the kind of justification used to justify annexations as widely spread through time and history as the US annexation of Hawaii or Texas or the British annexation of Australia or New Zealand - of course I'm speaking very loosely here... but the principle is what counts...

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

The Russian Army lost a tank batallion with 40 vehicles while trying to cross the river Donez on a ponton bridge by surprising ukrainian artillery attack.

Defence of Ukraine auf Twitter: „Artillerymen of the 17th tank brigade of the #UAarmy have opened the holiday season for ruscists. Some bathed in the Siverskyi Donets River, and some were burned by the May sun. https://t.co/QsRsXmnJ65“ / Twitter

[StarDreamer]

I'm not entirely certain how anybody could reconcile being anti-colonialist, and be OK with any of the stated Russian justifications for it's action in Ukraine:



- https://theprint.in/world/full-text-...kraine/845714/

This kind of explanation has been used as the basis for annexation of independent territory or parts thereof for centuries: "we have to do it to protect people from their current state of disorder or oppression at the hands of the current rulers" - loosely, it was the kind of justification used to justify annexations as widely spread through time and history as the US annexation of Hawaii or Texas or the British annexation of Australia or New Zealand - of course I'm speaking very loosely here... but the principle is what counts...

They can't really. They claim to be anti-colonial, when the actual name for their position would be anti-western or just plain anti-US. They keep trying to cite "thinkers" like marshmellow and chopstick, as if their pseudo-scientific dribble had any actual value or meaning.

[Mithradates]

Day 78

Finland must apply for Nato membership ‘without delay’, PM, president declare

The announcement by president Sauli Niinisto and prime minister Sanna Marin means Finland is virtually certain to seek Nato membership though a few steps remain before the application process can begin. Neighboring Sweden is expected to decide on joining Nato in coming days.

Congratulation, Putler!


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First the Ukrainian Foreign Minister Kuleba, and now Zelensky also said that Ukraine's goal is not to restore the before February 24 situation, it is to ensure the full territorial integrity of Ukraine, including Crimea and Donbas.

[Coughdrop addict]

They can't really. They claim to be anti-colonial, when the actual name for their position would be anti-western or just plain anti-US. They keep trying to cite "thinkers" like marshmellow and chopstick, as if their pseudo-scientific dribble had any actual value or meaning.

I think it's a more recent phenomenon than LT's tankies. Tankies were explicitly pro-Communist, something that is absent from any pro-Putin propaganda today.

Instead I think many of them came of age during the buildup to the Iraq war and saw it as the mixture of greed and blind delusion it was, and rightfully denounced it. They were also part of the "whatever is going wrong, we must have caused it" crowd that was, right or wrong, popular as post-war Iraq fell to pieces.

The problem is they never updated their views as the world changed. They have lived so long with the idea that greedy American politicians are the ultimate bad guys that they cannot really comprehend that the Russian invasion of Ukraine has nothing to do with the US and everything to do with Putin being afraid democracy could break out in Russia.

This is why many of them seem delusional, when in fact they may simply be operating with a worldview that is slightly out of step with the present world. And unless they update that worldview they're only going to sound more and more ridiculous as it gets further and further removed from the present reality.

[Laser101]

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First the Ukrainian Foreign Minister Kuleba, and now Zelensky also said that Ukraine's goal is not to restore the before February 24 situation, it is to ensure the full territorial integrity of Ukraine, including Crimea and Donbas.

Is that achievable? Donbas might be, but an invasion of Crimea would a) present substantial practical difficulties, since the Ukrainians have no significant amphibious capability and the only land connection is very narrow and b) run a very high risk of Russia threatening a nuclear attack in an attempt to force Ukraine to back down.