Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Curious about Pontos Mercenaries and Noble more numerous than locals?

  1. #1

    Default Curious about Pontos Mercenaries and Noble more numerous than locals?

    So i'm just curious that why Pontus could recruit Galatian raider much more than Anatolian local? Pontos even lack the Anatolian light cavalry in their factional goverment unless you are coopt with inferior factional allied state(not the tributaries one) but you do get consistant amount of Anantolian medium cavalry in Strategai. Only Tribesman are Pontos light local unit that i can recruit in large amount.

    Gameplay wise i actually like it since i enjoy large retrainable army with decent infantry amd excellent cavalry but everytime i play Pontos always wonder how Pontos could get such a large amount of galatian mercenaries and their own nobility but struggle their poorer local of their own except tribesman

  2. #2

    Default Re: Curious about Pontos Mercenaries and Noble more numerous than locals?

    I agree with this, The amount of hireable eastern or anatolian units i think is way to low, Such as 1-2 slingers, and 1-2 anatolian skirmisher and spearman. I would assume they would be part of my core / left flank, but they are so low to recruit that using anatolians makes more sense

  3. #3

    Default Re: Curious about Pontos Mercenaries and Noble more numerous than locals?

    Quote Originally Posted by moisesjns View Post
    I agree with this, The amount of hireable eastern or anatolian units i think is way to low, Such as 1-2 slingers, and 1-2 anatolian skirmisher and spearman. I would assume they would be part of my core / left flank, but they are so low to recruit that using anatolians makes more sense
    You mean they are so low to recruit that using Galatian makes more sense? From Strategai and Foriegn colony you get max:4 Galatian raiders in contrast with same building you get max:3 Anatolian tribesman and max:2 Anatolian spearman(unfortunately the spearman are not available in Foriegn colony so they cannot be stacked)

    The saddest part is their archer in which you only get a measly max:1. They would have been an effective and cheap skirmisher for Pontus to have but their number are simply too few and worst very close to Pontus starting position is Sinope which have access to greek slinger for at least max:2 and up to max:3 and which replace anatolian archer when the archer can no longer keep up with the manpower drain.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Curious about Pontos Mercenaries and Noble more numerous than locals?

    Lack of stacking recruitment from different sources is deliberate. Not least because they often draw on different populations.

    You're complaining about not being able to recruit an entire army in one settlement, you should be recruiting from multiple settlements, not just one.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Curious about Pontos Mercenaries and Noble more numerous than locals?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Lack of stacking recruitment from different sources is deliberate. Not least because they often draw on different populations.

    You're complaining about not being able to recruit an entire army in one settlement, you should be recruiting from multiple settlements, not just one.
    And it make the recruitment wonky. Pontus use Galatian instead of Anatolian, Hayastan use Iranian and Babylonian instead of Armenian. It make sense if i play empire faction like Carthage and Seleucid who could afford this kind of kleruchy system but playing small realm who would relied more on locals like Pontus and Hayastan and it got weird fast.

    And even with multiple settlement it wasn't enough to offset 30 turns cooldown for Anatolian archer. I mean if i'm playing as Pontus/Hayastan and i have to resort to import archer from Crete or Skythia or Greek slinger just to field 4 long missle units than the local unit is simply too few.

    Also again what's with lack of Anatolian light cavalry? Startegai only give either Anatolian medium or Iranian cataphract.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Curious about Pontos Mercenaries and Noble more numerous than locals?

    You answered it on your first post, those units are tribesmen and not the mainstay units of pontus. For example the "anatolian light cavalry", they ride ponies and are basically brigands. Pontus' royal family is made of royal iranians, and their recruiting grounds are descendants from the iranian settlers. Who are those descendants? The ubiquitous cappadocian cavalry, they represent the sort of forces that the pontic dynasts could call up easily. The anatolian tribesmen have nothing iranian about them, they're just natives that are influenced by whatever empire ruled over their lands. You need to read the unit descriptions carefully, units represent broad concepts and the english translation isn't mean to be all encompassing. Take the galatianized spearmen, the mainstay infantry for pontus: are they galatians? maybe there are some, are they hellenized locals? are they "anatolian"? (whatever that means). The description answers it, they represent of a lot of things in a single unit.

    If you can be far more specific on the feedback, then it would help the devs. State exactly which unit you think have not enough pools and in which region. From your post it seems like you are talking about the specialized tribesmen units (archers and cavalry), because the spearmen and axemen are plentiful enough. The bows used by the "anatolian archers" are actually quite heavy and are not mean to represent your basic toxotes unit, they're a specialized regional unit. The tribal light cavalry is using extremely bad horses which suggest it is more of an appendage to the "tribal roster", which is mostly composed of spearmen and axemen. Pontus would have no interest in kowtowing to these cavalry bandits when they have a readibly accessible source of far superior cavalry manpower already.

    Finally, I do agree that galatians raiders may be a bit too common, but again you need to be specific. In an ideal scenario I would like to see some galatian script decisions where the pontic rulers can agree/disagree to making pacts with marauding galatians and getting units from it. The game sort of assumes that the pontic kings are already in cahoots with some of the galatians and are employing them.

    If you want to give feedback about unit availability, you need to be far more specific, because saying that I want more anatolian units isn't very useful. I do know that there are more units planned for pontus, like a later version for the cappadocian cavalry with shields or hopefully the pontic bodyguard, but I'm unsure if the anatolian local roster is complete otherwise.
    Last edited by Hellenikon; December 06, 2021 at 12:04 PM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Curious about Pontos Mercenaries and Noble more numerous than locals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenikon View Post
    You answered it on your first post, those units are tribesmen and not the mainstay units of pontus. For example the "anatolian light cavalry", they ride ponies and are basically brigands. Pontus' royal family is made of royal iranians, and their recruiting grounds are descendants from the iranian settlers. Who are those descendants? The ubiquitous cappadocian cavalry, they represent the sort of forces that the pontic dynasts could call up easily. The anatolian tribesmen have nothing iranian about them, they're just natives that are influenced by whatever empire ruled over their lands. You need to read the unit descriptions carefully, units represent broad concepts and the english translation isn't mean to be all encompassing. Take the galatianized spearmen, the mainstay infantry for pontus: are they galatians? maybe there are some, are they hellenized locals? are they "anatolian"? (whatever that means). The description answers it, they represent of a lot of things in a single unit.

    If you can be far more specific on the feedback, then it would help the devs. State exactly which unit you think have not enough pools and in which region. From your post it seems like you are talking about the specialized tribesmen units (archers and cavalry), because the spearmen and axemen are plentiful enough. The bows used by the "anatolian archers" are actually quite heavy and are not mean to represent your basic toxotes unit, they're a specialized regional unit. The tribal light cavalry is using extremely bad horses which suggest it is more of an appendage to the "tribal roster", which is mostly composed of spearmen and axemen. Pontus would have no interest in kowtowing to these cavalry bandits when they have a readibly accessible source of far superior cavalry manpower already.

    Finally, I do agree that galatians raiders may be a bit too common, but again you need to be specific. In an ideal scenario I would like to see some galatian script decisions where the pontic rulers can agree/disagree to making pacts with marauding galatians and getting units from it. The game sort of assumes that the pontic kings are already in cahoots with some of the galatians and are employing them.

    If you want to give feedback about unit availability, you need to be far more specific, because saying that I want more anatolian units isn't very useful. I do know that there are more units planned for pontus, like a later version for the cappadocian cavalry with shields or hopefully the pontic bodyguard, but I'm unsure if the anatolian local roster is complete otherwise.
    See that make a lot more sense once you point out the Anatolian light cavalry are brigand and Pontus background means they have ready access to Iranian nobility so that explain why Pontus cannot recruit Anatolian light cavalry from factional goverment.

    Aren't Anatolian archer max:2 would be appropiate? It's not like i play in Greek area where the archer are barebone that you have to relied on Kretan if i want archer.

    Yeah the Galatian raider a bit too many but only becauae they are supposed to be stand in for Galatanised spearman which as you say are assorted of different people that are not neccesairly Galatian but are trained in Galatanised manner. Why before reform they put Galatian or Uazali in Pontic factional goverment instead of a much closer Anatolian spearman since surely Pontus would have easier time recruiting unit from it's own terrtiories instead of importing unit from Galatian or Karian.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Curious about Pontos Mercenaries and Noble more numerous than locals?

    Yeah i did a typo, I meant to say It is easier to hire galatians, celts, As for specifics, I think the eastern infantry pools for amaseia, are low, if it was a max pool of 4 i would be satisfied, Again i try not to have many elite units, i think it is more realistic that i would be fielding more easterners on my home territory than outside mercenaries.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Curious about Pontos Mercenaries and Noble more numerous than locals?

    Quote Originally Posted by moisesjns View Post
    i think it is more realistic that i would be fielding more easterners on my home territory than outside mercenaries.
    On the contrary, fielding foreigners close to home is a tried and true historical way of keeping the population in line.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Curious about Pontos Mercenaries and Noble more numerous than locals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sar1n View Post
    On the contrary, fielding foreigners close to home is a tried and true historical way of keeping the population in line.
    It makes sense for most of Greek faction that is not Koinon Hellenon and despite their foriegn nature they still can muster up to max:4 peltast no problem if you have lv1 polis and lv1 helcol despite deep in Iranian or Egypt.

    Pontus could be argue that they are in cahoots with Galatian but from what i read from Hayastan they relied on Armenian spearman as their core infantry but gameplay wise you would replace them with Iranian axeman and archer and Babylonian hoplite because after theuros reform Armenian speraman are reduce from max:2->1

  11. #11

    Default Re: Curious about Pontos Mercenaries and Noble more numerous than locals?

    Quote Originally Posted by eyelurker View Post
    And it make the recruitment wonky. Pontus use Galatian instead of Anatolian, Hayastan use Iranian and Babylonian instead of Armenian. It make sense if i play empire faction like Carthage and Seleucid who could afford this kind of kleruchy system but playing small realm who would relied more on locals like Pontus and Hayastan and it got weird fast.

    And even with multiple settlement it wasn't enough to offset 30 turns cooldown for Anatolian archer. I mean if i'm playing as Pontus/Hayastan and i have to resort to import archer from Crete or Skythia or Greek slinger just to field 4 long missle units than the local unit is simply too few.

    Also again what's with lack of Anatolian light cavalry? Startegai only give either Anatolian medium or Iranian cataphract.
    Four units of foot archers in one stack is ridiculous outside of steppe armies, even moreso expecting them all to be the same unit. That's a cheesy gameplay exploit to make your resupply simpler. They are available as part of a mixture of units representing the tribal levy, which includes the spearmen and javelineers.

    Pontos historically used mercenaries for exactly that sort of specialised role, you should be using Kretan archers if you need a specialist archer unit. Along with mercenaries from the steppe when your empire encompassed the northern Pontic shore.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Curious about Pontos Mercenaries and Noble more numerous than locals?

    Well if thats the case, than i guess i will just accept using galatians, I mean in 1 winter with trapezous, amaseia, sinope, i can hire like 8 galatians, when my pools are maxed, but with easterners i can get like 4 skirmishers, 3-4 spearman, I mean i can accept using galatians than, just like byzantines and varangians, but maybe pontus description should have more emphasis added that celt mercenaries were the main composition of their army. (im talking early period of game not middle or late game era)

  13. #13

    Default Re: Curious about Pontos Mercenaries and Noble more numerous than locals?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Four units of foot archers in one stack is ridiculous outside of steppe armies, even moreso expecting them all to be the same unit. That's a cheesy gameplay exploit to make your resupply simpler. They are available as part of a mixture of units representing the tribal levy, which includes the spearmen and javelineers.

    Pontos historically used mercenaries for exactly that sort of specialised role, you should be using Kretan archers if you need a specialist archer unit. Along with mercenaries from the steppe when your empire encompassed the northern Pontic shore.
    Four are too many? Huh. It wasn't noticable at first glance because if i recruit say Cretan archer or Balearic or Greek slinger it's very easy to get 4 unit of them and as Pontus i start with 3 Anatolian archer and 1 Iranian slinger so i just kinda assume 4 long range missle is the norm.

    Oh and i realize that in Armenia your Strategai gives Anatolian spearman instead of Galatian and special mention to Mtskheta and Kabalaka where their settlement bring max:4 Anatolian spearman but much lower Anatolian tribesman max:1 instead.

    Ps: Also in Armenia you could get 4 Anatolian archer pretty easily but by buying them as mercenaries. Although my archer are always mixed with Kretan because Kretan are plentiful enough.
    Last edited by eyelurker; December 07, 2021 at 09:27 AM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Curious about Pontos Mercenaries and Noble more numerous than locals?

    Quote Originally Posted by moisesjns View Post
    Well if thats the case, than i guess i will just accept using galatians, I mean in 1 winter with trapezous, amaseia, sinope, i can hire like 8 galatians, when my pools are maxed, but with easterners i can get like 4 skirmishers, 3-4 spearman, I mean i can accept using galatians than, just like byzantines and varangians, but maybe pontus description should have more emphasis added that celt mercenaries were the main composition of their army. (im talking early period of game not middle or late game era)
    The calculation was pretty simple early on: hire Galatians as mercenaries to serve you, or suffer Galatian raids as those same men made their own way.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Curious about Pontos Mercenaries and Noble more numerous than locals?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    The calculation was pretty simple early on: hire Galatians as mercenaries to serve you, or suffer Galatian raids as those same men made their own way.
    It may be simple to you someone who knows more history about pontus But for me not so much, I use to play mostly rome, and carthage in EB1, Pontus too a little, but honestly finding history about Pontus besaides Mithradatic wars is not easy, Google searches dont bring up many good results when you search "Pontic grek:" well besides the whole Greek exodus/ kick out that turkey did removing the pontic greeks. But again the history of ancient pontus is not as easy to find on internet as say ROME, carthage, or greece. So i say again i would request you guys add a sentence about this whole "hire celts to not be raided by them" into their description at least on the faction selection page. Because i honestly thought im suppose to be using easterners more than celts, and that celts are more of my Left flank units, Not main line soldiers.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Curious about Pontos Mercenaries and Noble more numerous than locals?

    Quote Originally Posted by moisesjns View Post
    It may be simple to you someone who knows more history about pontus But for me not so much, I use to play mostly rome, and carthage in EB1, Pontus too a little, but honestly finding history about Pontus besaides Mithradatic wars is not easy, Google searches dont bring up many good results when you search "Pontic grek:" well besides the whole Greek exodus/ kick out that turkey did removing the pontic greeks. But again the history of ancient pontus is not as easy to find on internet as say ROME, carthage, or greece. So i say again i would request you guys add a sentence about this whole "hire celts to not be raided by them" into their description at least on the faction selection page. Because i honestly thought im suppose to be using easterners more than celts, and that celts are more of my Left flank units, Not main line soldiers.
    Similarly, early on a lot of their line infantry should be Greek mercenaries. Just as the Persians and others made significant use of Greeks to fulfil the infantry role.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Curious about Pontos Mercenaries and Noble more numerous than locals?

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    The calculation was pretty simple early on: hire Galatians as mercenaries to serve you, or suffer Galatian raids as those same men made their own way.
    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Similarly, early on a lot of their line infantry should be Greek mercenaries. Just as the Persians and others made significant use of Greeks to fulfil the infantry role.
    This was essentially the state of play when Mithradates Ctistes holed himself up in Pontus, away from the machinations of the Diadochoi (Especally from Antigonos Monophthalmos who had sent assassins after the former, how very generous of him...). The guy just srounged up anyone he could get his hands on in an attempt to consolidate his position, to the extent that he did not care in the slightest when he hired from those considered to be Anatolia's public enemy #1 (The Galatai).

    In gameplay terms, this inconsistant state of affairs in the military should give you ample motivation to take full advantage of your ability to use existing Hellenistic Polises and military colonies and seed new settler colonies elsewhere.
    To fight and conquer in all our battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
    - Sun Tzu



  18. #18

    Default Re: Curious about Pontos Mercenaries and Noble more numerous than locals?

    Ok well i did not know that. I guess i will just use Everyone than, I have been using Greeks as my Main line, and Galatians and celts/ thrace on left, and of course the right side has the best hellenic troops holding it, and easterners i use to fill the gaps, / like hemithorakitai. I just agree with OP that i think the eastern side of the faction is very much "lacking" or just feels like they are not really eastern. due to the sheer amount of greeks, and celts available to hire.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Curious about Pontos Mercenaries and Noble more numerous than locals?

    Quote Originally Posted by moisesjns View Post
    Ok well i did not know that. I guess i will just use Everyone than, I have been using Greeks as my Main line, and Galatians and celts/ thrace on left, and of course the right side has the best hellenic troops holding it, and easterners i use to fill the gaps, / like hemithorakitai. I just agree with OP that i think the eastern side of the faction is very much "lacking" or just feels like they are not really eastern. due to the sheer amount of greeks, and celts available to hire.
    The funny thing is part of the reason i play Pontus are they are one of the faction that can utilize eastern faction the most. In previous patch Pontus core army after Galatian raider are Galatanized spearman because back then you can get addition max:2 Galatanized spearman by building lv2forcol (which need large town instead of city previously) on top of max:2 from Strategai/Satrapy but now you need lv3forcol to achieve same result(Large city) and Satrapy no longer have local Galatanized spearman which more or less encourage Pontus to use Hellenic unit more who give larger and stronger manpower rhan Eastern.

    I do know Galatanized swordman remain unused both in previous and current patch.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •