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Thread: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

  1. #21
    PikeStance's Avatar Assume Good Intentions
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Adrian View Post
    1. That is not true, not to mention that "I never saw it so it does not exist" is not an argument
    2. Even if it never happened, the past months have shown there is plenty of pettiness to go around (ex: the last frivolous VonC) and incentivizing people to channel that pettiness into applications is not a good idea.
    You made the claim that people do it, so let's see it
    I included details of the "close ones"
    (17-0-0)
    (13-0-0)
    (18-0-0)
    (12-0-0)
    (14-4-0)
    (22-0-1)
    (13-0-0)
    (16-0-0)
    (13-0-0)
    (22-0-1)
    (17-0-0)
    (15-0-0)
    (14-0-0)
    (18-0-0)
    (23-0-0)
    (3-0-0)
    (5-8-0) [Citizen] Cookiegod (Patron: Commissar Caligula_)
    (18-0-0)
    (13-2-0) [Civitate] Alexander78 (Patron: Van Zandt)
    (14-0-2)
    (13-0-0)
    (20-0-0)
    (17-0-3)
    (21-0-1)
    (11-0-2)
    (15-0-0)
    (18-0-0)
    (19-0-1)
    (13-6-8) [Citizen] Vanoi (Patron: Elfdude)
    (24-0-0)
    (9-4-6) [Civitate] zoner16 (Patron: PikeStance)
    (14-0-1)
    (23-0-0)
    (18-0-1)

    Adrian,
    You cannot hide behind, "people" are petty forever. At some point, redemption has to be made. If the argument is going to be made against a proposal that citizens will do evil things, then is this even worth preserving? You are not the only one making this argument either. perhaps we should convert the Artifex to an award, create a Content award (probably a separate "debate" one) and remove the badges and unique colors.

  2. #22
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    I said apple and you replied disproving orange and accused me of hiding behind orange.

    But ok, I'll do your job for you. An example of pettiness that your award would trigger: Roma Victrix loincloth proposal, check it out.
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  3. #23
    PikeStance's Avatar Assume Good Intentions
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    You said there was plenty of pettiness; I looked for it and couldn't find it.
    What am I missing here? The vote was 25-2-0

    Talk about your apples to oranges. I said applications are pretty fair and no one ever votes to prevent a deserving member of the honor.
    I mean, I will concede that proposals citizens have behave jaded, but I have never seen it in an application. It is easy to prove the former, but you have yet to prove the latter. The only one playing with fruits right now is you.

  4. #24
    ggggtotalwarrior's Avatar hey it geg
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    He wasn’t referring to the 2017 Roma Victrix vote
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  5. #25
    PikeStance's Avatar Assume Good Intentions
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    Quote Originally Posted by ggggtotalwarrior View Post
    He wasn’t referring to the 2017 Roma Victrix vote
    No, I do not see it here. it has to be one of the most tame fails I have seen to be honest. People made valid objections, nothing unreasonable. Moreover, he passed later with no problems.
    Moot argument.

  6. #26
    Iskar's Avatar Insanity with Dignity
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    "Hey, let's make a class whose only currently active permanent member would be me and give methem the sole right to vote on applications"? Sounds like a totally sensible proposal.
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  7. #27
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    You said there was plenty of pettiness; I looked for it and couldn't find it.
    What am I missing here? The vote was 25-2-0

    Talk about your apples to oranges. I said applications are pretty fair and no one ever votes to prevent a deserving member of the honor.
    I mean, I will concede that proposals citizens have behave jaded, but I have never seen it in an application. It is easy to prove the former, but you have yet to prove the latter. The only one playing with fruits right now is you.
    Don't play dumb with me Pike, you know very well I was not talking about the successful one.
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  8. #28
    ggggtotalwarrior's Avatar hey it geg
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    I feel the need to reiterate this for maybe the fifth time across these proposals but looking at volume citizenship patronizations is a complete misunderstanding of why the site is slowing down. The lack of patronization is because overall activity is down and almost anyone interested in the curia is already an active member and citizen; this situation of declining patronization is the symptom, not the cause. Literally all this accomplishes is giving you a badge/group that is impossible to attain for others with the site in its current state, and impossible for literally anyone to achieve if it was for some bizarre reason not made retroactive like everything else
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  9. #29

    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Iskar View Post
    "Hey, let's make a class whose only currently active permanent member would be me and give methem the sole right to vote on applications"? Sounds like a totally sensible proposal.
    I just read this and then reread the OP.
    Application Process
    The process is the same as it is now. You will post the applications in QP. However, Voting will only be done by members of the Patronus Class. A special subforum would have to be created for the voting to take place.
    Pike you would be the only person or one of three or four to vote on citizen applications. This is madness, how could you even propose such a thing? Put this nonsense to a vote NOW and be done with this.

  10. #30
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    This garbage should not go to a vote, ever. It should be abandoned in the dustbin of the forum.
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  11. #31
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    This will never go to vote as I don't foresee any 3 people being willing to support this horrible idea.

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  12. #32
    ggggtotalwarrior's Avatar hey it geg
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    Personally I think we should create a special “Geg” class. The requirements to be part of the initial class are one has to have joined TWC between September 1st, 2011 and September 30th, 2011, must be located in New York, must have between 4273 and 4275 posts and must be a citizen promoted in the year 2021. Afterwards, members can only be added to this class by special vote from within the already existing Geg body. Lmk what you guys think
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  13. #33
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Iskar View Post
    "Hey, let's make a class whose only currently active permanent member would be me and give methem the sole right to vote on applications"? Sounds like a totally sensible proposal.
    LOL, it wouldn't take much to learn who ridiculous this is
    The list excluding myself
    Akar
    Gaius Baltar
    Adamat
    Abdülmecid I
    Flinn
    Aikanár
    General Brewster
    Halie Satanus (upon request of citizenship)
    Iskar (upon request of citizenship)
    Inkie
    Ishan (if we patronized or reinstated)
    Noble Savage

    The embolden names reached the threshold.

    Members who patronized within the past three years (except this past year)
    z3n
    King Athelstan
    Arachîr Galudirithon
    Lord Thesaurian

    Of course if the list was larger, they wouldn't be a need to have the proposal.

  14. #34
    PikeStance's Avatar Assume Good Intentions
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Adrian View Post
    Don't play dumb with me Pike, you know very well I was not talking about the successful one.
    Quote Originally Posted by ggggtotalwarrior View Post
    He wasn’t referring to the 2017 Roma Victrix vote
    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    No, I do not see it here. it has to be one of the most tame fails I have seen to be honest. People made valid objections, nothing unreasonable. Moreover, he passed later with no problems.
    Moot argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by ggggtotalwarrior View Post
    I feel the need to reiterate this for maybe the fifth time across these proposals but looking at volume citizenship patronizations is a complete misunderstanding of why the site is slowing down. The lack of patronization is because overall activity is down and almost anyone interested in the curia is already an active member and citizen; this situation of declining patronization is the symptom, not the cause. Literally all this accomplishes is giving you a badge/group that is impossible to attain for others with the site in its current state, and impossible for literally anyone to achieve if it was for some bizarre reason not made retroactive like everything else
    This is a false assumption. There have always been people contributing to the site. You do not need to reinvent the wheel or shoot a bolt of lightning out of your butt to qualify for citizenship. As the standards became higher and higher, people patronized less and less. This meant that otherwise qualified members were never patronized. I know this because I have seen members who were polite and posting regularly simply ignored. I have approach others in areas outside my normal roaming area and they refused it because they wanted to be recognized by citizens who had frequent interaction with them. I still see members like this. many just give up and go elsewhere.

    This proposal is uncomfortable because it will force many to actually go out and patronize someone rather than propose and debate useless amendments to the Constitution. Activity is not proposing 'obvious" members that you know for a large award or the 501 award. it is participating in discussions across the board and then patronizing those who are contributing and who are polite. So instead of boo hoo'ing about this proposal and how it will block you from 'voting' go and patronized. it is time for people to stop making excuses and actually back up their talk.

  15. #35
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    rather than propose and debate useless amendments to the Constitution
    Ho boy, the irony here is excruciating.

    So instead of boo hoo'ing about this proposal and how it will block you from 'voting' go and patronized.
    Oh so you admit it would block out 99% of the Curia from voting, then?

    it is time for people to stop making excuses and actually back up their talk.
    Again, the irony here is just.... wow.

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  16. #36
    PikeStance's Avatar Assume Good Intentions
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    Ho boy, the irony here is excruciating.
    Oh so you admit it would block out 99% of the Curia from voting, then?
    Again, the irony here is just.... wow.
    1. This isn't a useless amendment. it is meant to promote patronization. The fact that those who have never patronize object speaks volume.
    2. No, anyone can patronize and the starting members criteria is open for changes if you have any suggestions. It can be patronize in the past 3, 4, 5, etc.. years.
    3. If you are concern about not being able to vote, then patronize. Pretty simple.

    The proposals only changes who votes and it doesn't obstruct anyone from patronizing or from voicing their opinion about an application.

  17. #37

    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    This assumes that every single member of TWC can become a Citizen tomorrow.
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  18. #38
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    I honestly don't even know what to say to that, Pike. I'm dumbfounded.

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  19. #39
    ggggtotalwarrior's Avatar hey it geg
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    You’re making me agree with POVG here

    Yes, anyone here is capable of patronizing in theory but not if there is barely any non citizen user base that’s actually interested in it and also meet even a lower standard than has been applied in the past for citizenship. I understand why you have this obsession with patronizing out of a misplaced believe that patronization alone will restore the site but by your own admittance patronization fell off a Cliff after being massive just 3 years ago and next to none of those who were patronized in 2018 are still active here. You can’t place some sort of patronization requirement to be in a group on users without also incentivizing them to squabble for the limited worthy users available or to try and pass users that massively degrade the standards for citizenship.
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  20. #40
    Flinn's Avatar His Dudeness of TWC
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    Quote Originally Posted by ggggtotalwarrior View Post
    I feel the need to reiterate this for maybe the fifth time across these proposals but looking at volume citizenship patronizations is a complete misunderstanding of why the site is slowing down. The lack of patronization is because overall activity is down and almost anyone interested in the curia is already an active member and citizen; this situation of declining patronization is the symptom, not the cause. Literally all this accomplishes is giving you a badge/group that is impossible to attain for others with the site in its current state, and impossible for literally anyone to achieve if it was for some bizarre reason not made retroactive like everything else
    Pretty much this
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