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Thread: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

  1. #1
    PikeStance's Avatar Assume Good Intentions
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    Default [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    The other proposal doesn't seem to be going anywhere even among those that agree on principle.

    Now my other idea...

    A creation of a "Third Class;" The Patronus Class.
    Patronus Class is semi-permanent class. It can be held by only by citizens who are active or actively patronizing citizens.

    How to be a member of the Patronus Class?
    1. Patronized at least three members to Citizenship
    2. if you successfully patronized within the past year from the date of implementation of this proposal
    3. Successfully patronized one member.

    Remaining a member is contingent on the following criteria:
    1. If you have patronized 5 or more members to citizenship you are considered a permanent member as long as you are active on the forum.
    2. All other Patronus members must successfully patronize at least one member to citizenship per year.

    Application Process
    The process is the same as it is now. You will post the applications in QP. However, Voting will only be done by members of the Patronus Class. A special subforum would have to be created for the voting to take place.

    This is not a committee. You only have the right to vote. Everyone can share their opinion as they do now. Basically, if you "pay" you can "play" approach.
    I am not sure what should be considered "active." Is it posting at least once every three months/ one month/ 6 months???
    Last edited by PikeStance; December 05, 2021 at 09:21 AM.

  2. #2
    Cookiegod's Avatar CIVUS DIVUS EX CLIBANO
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    I don't get it :/

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiegod View Post
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  3. #3
    Abdülmecid I's Avatar ¡Ay Carmela!
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    Yeah, the wording needs some work to become more easily comprehensible. Anyway, this revised edition of the CdeC looks impractical and pointless. The only argument in favour I can personally find is if someone considers the opinion of those who have not successfully patronised as inferior. It will also be a nightmare to implement and make the site even more unstable, by unnecessarily increasing the total number of user-groups.

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    Dismounted Feudal Knight's Avatar ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    Oppose.
    pesky twc socialite, wandering 'knight' and dreamer

  5. #5
    PikeStance's Avatar Assume Good Intentions
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    Yeah, the wording needs some work to become more easily comprehensible. Anyway, this revised edition of the CdeC looks impractical and pointless. The only argument in favour I can personally find is if someone considers the opinion of those who have not successfully patronised as inferior. It will also be a nightmare to implement and make the site even more unstable, by unnecessarily increasing the total number of user-groups.
    Seriously?, ... so non-citizens opinions on proposals are "inferior" to citizens because citizens are allowed to vote? We can't have "attempt;" as you noted in the other proposal that would encourage spamming.

    It is one group and this was not an issue when we created the Patrician class. (Plus, we could get rid of either the Civitate or Citizen badge).

    it is far from the CdeC. Everyone can share their opinions and any citizen can be a part of the class provided they meet the requirements. There are no "elections," back door/ private discussions, and voting would be public as it is now.

    It is simple pay and play approach.

  6. #6

    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    Only a small number of Citizens participate in voting on proposals. This proposal would diminish that. I don't see any point in having such a class and I believe it would diminish activity on the website. Oppose.
    The Armenian Issue
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  7. #7
    ggggtotalwarrior's Avatar hey it geg
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    Personally I’m not a huge fan of Harry Potter so I must oppose
    Rep me and I'll rep you back.

    UNDER THE PATRONAGE OF THE KING POSTER AKAR

  8. #8

    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    PikeStance, you are indeed a politician. You oppose good amendments because they seem to you that they are too complicated, yet this proposal will need three secretaries keeping track who has done what and when they did it. Furthermore this smacks of elitism. Oppose.
    Last edited by MIKE GOLF; December 02, 2021 at 01:06 PM.

  9. #9
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    Opposed for all the reasons already said and so many more.

    It is one group and this was not an issue when we created the Patrician class. (Plus, we could get rid of either the Civitate or Citizen badge).
    I mean, lol.

    It is simple pay and play approach.
    Good god man are you even thinking through this stuff before you post it?

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  10. #10
    PikeStance's Avatar Assume Good Intentions
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    How is it elitism? There isn't a requirement when others can inhibit anyone's participation. All members can patronize. All members can comment on applications. The only thing that is different is the actual voting. If you want to vote, patronize. After 10, you can retire We can even lower that to maybe five or as low as three.

    No secretaries are required, all patronages are public record. If you want to vote, it would be easy to demonstrate that.

    As someone who has proposed many things, both simple and complicated I am never opposed to any for such a superficial reason.

    @Akar, I think everything through. I seriously only posted this a few hours ago and already people are opposing it. You would think people would actually try to think of alternatives or something.

    I don't know if beggars can be choosers right now.

    2021 - 6
    2020 - 7
    2019 - 7
    2018 - 25
    2017 - 11
    2016 - 23
    2015 - 28
    2014 - 36
    2013 - 37
    2012 - 47

    We have less patronages in the past three years than we had of all of 2018.
    The idea of having a committed group of citizens to seek out potential citizens was already voted down (It didn't even go to vote).
    They are not a lot of options out there. promoting the Curia is a waste of time if they aren't enough citizens to populate it.
    I am not sure being a negative Nancy is the best option.

  11. #11

    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    Who are you calling beggars now?
    The Armenian Issue
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    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  12. #12
    PikeStance's Avatar Assume Good Intentions
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Who are you calling beggars now?
    oh, I thought that was a commonly understood expression.

    beggars can't be choosers
    —used to say that people who need something should be satisfied with what they get even if it is not exactly what they wanted

  13. #13

    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    oh, I thought that was a commonly understood expression.

    beggars can't be choosers
    —used to say that people who need something should be satisfied with what they get even if it is not exactly what they wanted
    "Don't be a wuss" is also a well understood expression. Doesn't mean we get to use such expression as we wish. Thankfully, people are not left to what you decide to give them.
    The Armenian Issue
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    "We're nice mainly because we're rich and comfortable."

  14. #14
    ggggtotalwarrior's Avatar hey it geg
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    Lol you guys need to relax
    Rep me and I'll rep you back.

    UNDER THE PATRONAGE OF THE KING POSTER AKAR

  15. #15
    PikeStance's Avatar Assume Good Intentions
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    Quote Originally Posted by ggggtotalwarrior View Post
    Lol you guys need to relax
    I don't know,. It is a strange reaction

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    "Don't be a wuss" is also a well understood expression. Doesn't mean we get to use such expression as we wish. Thankfully, people are not left to what you decide to give them.
    Geg is right, you really need to relax a bit.

    There aren't many options. I have given three. If you have something better, I would love to hear it.

    Order 66 was doomed to fail and so we tried it. It failed. It may not be what you envisioned, but as of yet, not articulated, but barring nothing else, there is nothing to lose.
    If it works, then we can all pat ourselves on the back. But it fails, we can at least said we tried something.

    The only other alternative is to have a small cadre of people, looking for active members with "x" number of posts and judging if they meet the behavior standard. They make a post, what about his guy? The talk, vote, and if pass by simple majority, a citizen. It is how they did it the very beginning.

    We are not going to "survive" with less than 8 patronages a year.

  16. #16
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    Same problem as the other proposal, it turns patronisation into a frivolous competition that is GUARANTEED to end up as a race to the bottom and feed pettiness within the Curia.


    Opposed.
    Under the patronage of Pie the Inkster Click here to find a hidden gem on the forum!


  17. #17
    ggggtotalwarrior's Avatar hey it geg
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    Excuse me Adrian that one guy we both think is worthy of patronization is MINE! I GOTTA HIT MY QUOTA TO STAY ON THE JEDI COUNCIL
    Rep me and I'll rep you back.

    UNDER THE PATRONAGE OF THE KING POSTER AKAR

  18. #18
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    OVER MY DEAD BODY LONGSHORMAN

    Get it, cause long islands have long shores
    I'll see myself out.
    Under the patronage of Pie the Inkster Click here to find a hidden gem on the forum!


  19. #19
    PikeStance's Avatar Assume Good Intentions
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Adrian View Post
    Same problem as the other proposal, it turns patronisation into a frivolous competition that is GUARANTEED to end up as a race to the bottom and feed pettiness within the Curia.


    Opposed.
    This makes "zero" sense. I have never seen anyone vote for or against a application for petty reasons. If there is anything that is for certain, even personal rivalries disappear. I find your assessment of the your fellow citizens disconcerting.

  20. #20
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus: The Third Class

    1. That is not true, not to mention that "I never saw it so it does not exist" is not an argument
    2. Even if it never happened, the past months have shown there is plenty of pettiness to go around (ex: the last frivolous VonC) and incentivizing people to channel that pettiness into applications is not a good idea.
    Under the patronage of Pie the Inkster Click here to find a hidden gem on the forum!


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