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Thread: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

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    Default [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    The Pater Familias or Patronus Award
    Pater Familias
    Previous iterations
    Patronus Award, October 16, 2019 - PikeStance
    [Amendment] Pater's Civic Crown, March 02, 2016 - Mega Tortas de Bodemloze
    [Amendment] Pater's Civic Crown, September 09, 2015 - Mega Tortas de Bodemloze
    [Amendment] Patronisation Incentive Bill, Part II {Pater's Civic Crown}, May 19, 2012 - Mega Tortas de Bodemloze
    [Amendment] Patronisation Incentive Bill, May 17, 2011 - Omnipotent-Q

    New proposal

    In the interest of promoting patronization in the future, this proposal has been altered to reflect goal of the proposal.
    The number of patronization has dropped dramatically in the past three years. There are now less patronages in the past three years combined than 2018.
    2021 - 6
    2020 - 7
    2019 - 7
    2018 - 25
    The current rate is not sustainable. We need to promote patronages. It should be noted that in the past, most citizens do not patronize. However, all large number did. This was sustainable when the number of patronages were 4 per month on average. We now at less than 1 per month.

    Here is the new proposal. This award will be a small award
    All small awards
    1 - Bronze
    3 - Silver
    5 - Gold.
    For now, I won't make this retroactive.

    The goal is to get those who would not a normally patronize. Therefore, it would not make sense to have this apply retroactively to any citizen that has patronized in the past. This proposal would only go into effect upon implementation of this proposal. Everyone will start at "0." If you have one or three now, then by all means, patronize.

    Curia Service Award
    To qualify for the Curial Service Award, the nominee must have either served the Curia or act with distinction which includes patronization.
    I would also suggest the Large award of the Loinscloth for any thing that would be beyond the scope of a medium award.
    Asterix Loincloth
    Asterix Loincloth - Asterix's LoinclothAwarded for demonstrating purity of mind and spirit on TWC, in the pursuit of humour, politeness, or by promoting the curia or a positive atmosphere good times for all members.for for all members.. Any member is eligible to receive the Asterix Loincloth award.
    The Pater Familias is awarded for a small award for investiture in Citizenship Patronizations. A Bronze Pater Familias Award is bestowed when 1 successful patronization have been obtained. A silver Pater Familias award is bestowed when 3 successful patronisations have been obtained. A gold Pater Familias Award is bestowed when 5 patronizations have been obtained. Once each threshold has been met, the Consul shall issue the award.



    Here are propose images from previous proposals.

    Last edited by PikeStance; December 03, 2021 at 05:35 AM.

  2. #2
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus Award

    25 is way too high, I think. The scale should be dropped pretty drastically. I understand that you're setting the maximum level at about where you and Imb are, but I still think that's too high.

    I think maybe 3/6/10 or 3/8/15 would be a better scale.

    Either way, I like this proposal.

    I'm not sure about the name though, we should find someone who can actually speak Latin to figure out a proper name for the award.

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    PikeStance's Avatar Assume Good Intentions
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus Award

    Sure,... I go with the majority on the numbers and name.

    As far as the top mark, I like the idea of graduating the size of the award. It needs to be an exceptional level.
    I supposed 20 may work. I can live with 15 given we are talking about 6 members only at that level.
    3 may be too small, but I can see why that would be acceptable by some
    5-15-20
    3-10-15

    10 would be way to small of a number to reach the threshold of "exceptional."

  4. #4

    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus Award

    It doesn't have to be limited to 3 levels, though 3 can do fine I guess, and I think the first level should start with patronization of one Citizen. In itself, it's the start of a house.

    Minor House - 1 Citizen
    Major House - 10 Citizens
    Great House - 25 Citizens

    If there is ever someone reaching 50 Citizens we can start thinking of an Emperor seat.
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    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus Award

    How about 1/3/10/15/25?

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    Abdülmecid I's Avatar ¡Ay Carmela!
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus Award

    Opposed, because I don't think that the relationship between a patron and his client should be based on medal-hunting. In my opinion, the spamming of sloppy applications, where the patron is unfamiliar with his client, and which often result into flame-wars and damage the relationship of the candidate with the community, should not be encouraged. In any case, even if someone disagrees with the above, patronisations have already been recognized as a valid contribution for the Curia Service Award, so the proposed medal seems completely redundant.

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    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus Award

    Patronus is so technical political...

    Whats about pater familias award?

    That should a patron be: a father/mentor who support his children on their way to the curia, who lead them on the right way back, when there are on the wrong path.

    To the rest support, but the tresholds should not be to low.
    Being like you are
    Well this is something else, who would comprehend?
    But some that do, lay claim Divine purpose blesses them
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    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus Award

    My main concern is that this would only lead to increasingly low quality patronisations as people hunt achievements on the site. Besides there aren't enough active peregrinii to have a realistic shot at gold, and there really is no point in setting up a medal that only 2 people can get.
    Under the patronage of Pie the Inkster Click here to find a hidden gem on the forum!


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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus Award

    Opposed, because I don't think that the relationship between a patron and his client should be based on medal-hunting.
    In my opinion it would strengthen the relationship between patron and client, if clients would have the choice between more than the teacher, Caesar, the philosophs from the Ivory Tower or the penetrant jesters, as patrons would have to compete about clients.

    In my opinion, the spamming of sloppy applications, where the patron is unfamiliar with his client, and which often result into flame-wars and damage the relationship of the candidate with the community, should not be encouraged.
    We have already flame-wars if the candidate is from the wrong political side. It can't become worse.

    My main concern is that this would only lead to increasingly low quality patronisations as people hunt achievements on the site.
    Why should that matter, as we have already citizens, which show low quality behaviour afterwards?
    Last edited by Morticia Iunia Bruti; November 29, 2021 at 04:36 AM.
    Being like you are
    Well this is something else, who would comprehend?
    But some that do, lay claim Divine purpose blesses them
    That's not what I believe, and it doesn't matter anyway
    A part of your soul ties you to the next world
    Or maybe to the last, but I'm still not sure


    VNV Nation - Illusion


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    PikeStance's Avatar Assume Good Intentions
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus Award

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    Opposed, because I don't think that the relationship between a patron and his client should be based on medal-hunting. In my opinion, the spamming of sloppy applications, where the patron is unfamiliar with his client, and which often result into flame-wars and damage the relationship of the candidate with the community, should not be encouraged. In any case, even if someone disagrees with the above, patronisations have already been recognized as a valid contribution for the Curia Service Award, so the proposed medal seems completely redundant.
    This is site is design around the award system. We have metals for every kind of endeavor that exist on the site. Writing, staff, professor, art work, Divus when Novus already exist, the three levels of clusters (where large awards exist), etc.. Why this is always consider the straw that breaks the camel's back is beyond me.
    If you want to prevent flame wars, then close down the forum. In any event, having more heated debate over application is better than hardly any. It is little crazy to think otherwise. If we get one more application for a deserving citizen because of the ward, then this is better than none. is it Wayne Gretzky said, “You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.” I rather a member take that shot and fail than never try.

    The wording for the Curial service Award: To qualify for the Curial Service Award, the nominee must have served the Curia with distinction as a Citizen for at least six months.
    It was originally conceived for the Curator (Consul today) only. The CdeC award covered the other officer and the Judge's gavel for Magistrate.


    Quote Originally Posted by Morticia Iunia Bruti View Post
    Patronus is so technical political...

    Whats about pater familias award?

    That should a patron be: a father/mentor who support his children on their way to the curia, who lead them on the right way back, when there are on the wrong path.

    To the rest support, but the tresholds should not be to low.
    Pater Familias Award works for me as well.

    It is three levels because we have three levels of awards.
    I chose 5 because I consider that to be notable contributions to an area of the site. (I am fine with 3)
    I chose 15 because i consider that to be significant contributions to an area of the site (if 3, I am fine 10)
    I chose 25 because i consider that to be exceptional contributions to an area of the site (if 3, i can see 20 or 15) At 20 this is only 4 or 6 citizens. An exceptional number.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Adrian View Post
    My main concern is that this would only lead to increasingly low quality patronisations as people hunt achievements on the site. Besides there aren't enough active peregrinii to have a realistic shot at gold, and there really is no point in setting up a medal that only 2 people can get.
    If it passes, it isn't low quality. Something is better than nothing. Who knows, maybe even you might get motivated.

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    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Patronus Award

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    Opposed, because I don't think that the relationship between a patron and his client should be based on medal-hunting. In my opinion, the spamming of sloppy applications, where the patron is unfamiliar with his client, and which often result into flame-wars and damage the relationship of the candidate with the community, should not be encouraged. In any case, even if someone disagrees with the above, patronisations have already been recognized as a valid contribution for the Curia Service Award, so the proposed medal seems completely redundant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Adrian View Post
    My main concern is that this would only lead to increasingly low quality patronisations as people hunt achievements on the site. Besides there aren't enough active peregrinii to have a realistic shot at gold, and there really is no point in setting up a medal that only 2 people can get.
    I agree. My greatest fear in this is the lack of "good intentions" when massive patronising by a single person or a small group of person will start. It may finaly end to a patronising factory or to say it with harsh language to a patrons mafia.
    If few people patronise people with low standards they seam to aim to their influence in desisisons they will inteant to pass to the site. In the end we will and up with personal "armies" of followers that will "suport" their patron's proposals no matter if they will be correct or not.
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    Abdülmecid I's Avatar ¡Ay Carmela!
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    The wording for the Curial service Award: To qualify for the Curial Service Award, the nominee must have served the Curia with distinction as a Citizen for at least six months.
    It was originally conceived for the Curator (Consul today) only. The CdeC award covered the other officer and the Judge's gavel for Magistrate.
    The Curia Service award has already been given to members for their patronisation efforts, so it looks like rewarding the same thing with two different medals. I'm fine with updating the description of the award to better suit what already applies de facto, but I don't see the point of creating even more bling. Poorly thought and prepared applications are detrimental to the community, because they often encourage the embittered candidates to abandon the site.
    Last edited by Abdülmecid I; November 29, 2021 at 05:10 AM. Reason: Quote added.

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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    Personal armies would be a relatively exciting addition to Curial routine, all we really have is the TD republic taking over the declined Haderian empire. Sadly I don't think this proposal could possibly generate that sort of buzz. I think the impact of this sort of bling is overestimated and is predicated on a much more active platform and pool to choose from. Again, a case of misplaced priority.
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    Poorly thought and prepared applications are detrimental to the community, because they often encourage the embittered candidates to abandon the site.
    Examples?
    Being like you are
    Well this is something else, who would comprehend?
    But some that do, lay claim Divine purpose blesses them
    That's not what I believe, and it doesn't matter anyway
    A part of your soul ties you to the next world
    Or maybe to the last, but I'm still not sure


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  15. #15

    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    A citizen who has served the Curia for a term and who has patronized twenty users well can receive the curial service award.

    You can not ignore the problem of citizens patronizing people they barely know (with the application drama that entails, remember Joseph Symonii), linked to the problem of medal hunters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dismounted Feudal Knight View Post
    Personal armies would be a relatively exciting addition to Curial routine, all we really have is the TD republic taking over the declined Haderian empire. Sadly I don't think this proposal could possibly generate that sort of buzz. I think the impact of this sort of bling is overestimated and is predicated on a much more active platform and pool to choose from. Again, a case of misplaced priority.
    I would not be surprised at all to discover that a citizen PM their "sons" so that they participate in some specific debate.
    Last edited by mishkin; November 29, 2021 at 05:29 AM.
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    All right then business as usual.
    Being like you are
    Well this is something else, who would comprehend?
    But some that do, lay claim Divine purpose blesses them
    That's not what I believe, and it doesn't matter anyway
    A part of your soul ties you to the next world
    Or maybe to the last, but I'm still not sure


    VNV Nation - Illusion


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    PikeStance's Avatar Assume Good Intentions
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    I agree. My greatest fear in this is the lack of "good intentions" when massive patronising by a single person or a small group of person will start. It may finaly end to a patronising factory or to say it with harsh language to a patrons mafia.
    If few people patronise people with low standards they seam to aim to their influence in desisisons they will inteant to pass to the site. In the end we will and up with personal "armies" of followers that will "suport" their patron's proposals no matter if they will be correct or not.
    This has never happened even when members were "adopted" in the past. I have 27 clients. I have no armies and if i did, it would indicate a poor job on my part for picking such naive malleable clients to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    The Curia Service award has already been given to members for their patronisation efforts, so it looks like rewarding the same thing with two different medals. I'm fine with updating the description of the award to better suit what already applies de facto, but I don't see the point of creating even more bling. Poorly thought and prepared applications are detrimental to the community, because they often encourage the embittered candidates to abandon the site.
    You are disingenuous. I was proposed for everything I have done for the Curia.
    Application are simple. A simple paragraph why you think so- so should be a citizen. A citizen write why they should be. That's it. if anything, applications are sometimes too bloated. it is far better to have more failed applications than none at all. Seriously, is this all that you offer, disingenuous suppositions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dismounted Feudal Knight View Post
    Personal armies would be a relatively exciting addition to Curial routine, all we really have is the TD republic taking over the declined Haderian empire. Sadly I don't think this proposal could possibly generate that sort of buzz. I think the impact of this sort of bling is overestimated and is predicated on a much more active platform and pool to choose from. Again, a case of misplaced priority.
    How is it misplaced priority. The site has no "buzz." It did when a patronization was a thing. Citizenship is what sets this site apart. Most active members either are citizens, have been citizens, or love to criticize citizenship. it is the buzz.

    One of my ideas where to have a badge for anyone who has patronized 5 or more members to citizenship. The badge would act as a "beacon" promoting citizenship. I didn't think anyone would be onboard with that, so I didn't include it.

  18. #18
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    I appreciate the sentiment of the OP, but also the objections raised by Abdulmecid and Sir Adrian. This might come across as a bit convoluted, but how about counting "grandchildren" instead of "children" ?
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

  19. #19
    Abdülmecid I's Avatar ¡Ay Carmela!
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    I didn't say you were only proposed for your patronisation efforts, but it was a core argument in your favour. Accusations of being disingenuous aside, what I find a bit perplexing is not objecting to the patronisations being a criterion for the Curia Service award in the past, but later insisting that a separate award should be created exactly for that kind of contributions. I still don't understand why you are so opposed to the idea of patronisation efforts falling under the scope of an already existing medal. As for the second part, I am referring the patron being actually familiar with his client and the nature of his achievements, not the size of the application.

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    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Pater Familias or Patronus Award

    Quote Originally Posted by Muizer View Post
    I appreciate the sentiment of the OP, but also the objections raised by Abdulmecid and Sir Adrian. This might come across as a bit convoluted, but how about counting "grandchildren" instead of "children" ?
    Ah clever, you would honor those, who inherited their passion for the Curia to the next generation. Greedy medal hunters wouldn't do that. Clever move.
    Being like you are
    Well this is something else, who would comprehend?
    But some that do, lay claim Divine purpose blesses them
    That's not what I believe, and it doesn't matter anyway
    A part of your soul ties you to the next world
    Or maybe to the last, but I'm still not sure


    VNV Nation - Illusion


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