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Thread: God’s Law and Christianity

  1. #1

    Default God’s Law and Christianity

    Jesus said,

    Quote Originally Posted by John 14
    15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
    16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
    21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
    22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
    23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
    24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew 5
    17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
    18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
    19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew 22
    34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
    35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
    36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
    37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
    38 This is the first and great commandment.
    39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
    The first Christians understood that to love God is to obey God’s commands, and to sin is to disobey:
    Quote Originally Posted by I John 2-3
    My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
    2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
    3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
    5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
    6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
    [2] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
    [3] And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
    [4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
    [5] And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
    [6] Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
    [7] Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
    [8] He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
    [9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
    It may seem at first glance that these references to obedience and God’s commands/law is generic; after all, the word is used throughout the Bible with varying degrees of specificity. Thankfully, Jesus used deliberate language when he spoke to the religious leaders on doctrine. “If you love me, keep my commandments” is a direct reference to “the” commandments written in stone by God himself:
    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus 20
    3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
    4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
    5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
    6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deuteronomy 5
    7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
    8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
    9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
    10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
    Looking again to the first Christians, Paul understood the relevance of the law:
    Quote Originally Posted by Hebrews 4
    3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
    4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
    5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
    6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
    7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
    8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
    9 There remaineth therefore a rest (σαββατισμός) to the people of God.
    10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
    If, therefore, Christians are to observe the law as a matter of love and obedience to God, what authority, if any, do Christians have to alter or disobey it? It seems there is an uncontroversial understanding of the conceptual difference between God’s commandments and Mosaic law even by Old Testament prophets like Daniel (though it would be interesting to know where modern Jews draw the line). Qualitatively it appears to be the difference between the law God wrote himself on stone vs the laws Moses committed to parchment later on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel 9
    9 To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him;
    10 Neither have we obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets.
    11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.
    The idea that God’s law has been superseded in any respect seems to me entirely non Biblical, yet it’s a key theme in modern Christianity:
    Quote Originally Posted by Roman Catechism
    "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered."403
    Jesus issued his new commandment as a replacement for everything in the existing list. Including the big ten. Just as his new covenant replaced the old covenant, Jesus’ new commandment replaced all the old commandments.

    https://www.relevantmagazine.com/fai...-on-the-mount/
    What Biblical basis is there for this, given Jesus himself observed God’s law while on Earth as our living example, and specifically said obedience to the law is how to express love for him? I’m as curious about this as I am about the basis for observing the prohibition on pork, which some Christian sects do even though I don’t quite get why. I suppose there are some laws even Jews no longer observe for whatever reason, but this seems to be a conceptual issue. As Paul told the Romans,
    Quote Originally Posted by Romans 7
    1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
    5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
    6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
    7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
    8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
    9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
    10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
    11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
    12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
    22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
    25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; November 26, 2021 at 06:04 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    No, we don't care about your libertarian "evidence".
    “To live without faith, without a heritage to defend, without battling constantly for truth, is not to live but to ‘get along’; we must never just ‘get along’.” - Pier Giorgio Frassati

  2. #2

    Default Re: God’s Law and Christianity

    You’ve quoted Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5, but look at how each begins:

    And God spoke all these words, saying “I Yahweh your God who brought you out the Land of Egypt out of the house of bondage…”
    (Exodus 20:1-2)

    And Moses called of Israel and said to them, “Listen Israel to the statutes and judgments which I'm speaking to your presence today, so that you may learn them and be careful to observe them…”
    (Deuteronomy 5:1-2)

    In both cases it is clear who is being specifically addressed – Israel. In other words, the people traditionally believed to be the descendants of Yaᶜăqōḇ (Jacob) otherwise known as Yiśrāᵓęl (Israel). That’s the source of the term “children of Israel” in translation, because “descendants” and “children” are the same word in Hebrew. Modern people who clearly fit this category are Jews and Samaritans.

    In any case, this is the reason that Jews have traditionally believed that only Jews are bound by the law, with the exception of the Seven Laws of Noah given to all humanity, inferred from texts such as Genesis 9:4-6.

    So the question might arise for a Jew who has become a Christian, as to whether or not he is still bound by the law. That may be the context of some of the New Testament references.

    It's also worth noting that the Noahide Law concept had existed for at least a couple centuries before the lifetime of Jesus, as is evidenced by its appearance in the non-canonical Book of Jubilees. Therefore, it could be referenced in the New Testament. Hard to know when a generic term is used, but it may have been contextually clear to people at the time. Although, we know the Pharisees at the time would have understood the meaning of “the law” differently than the Sadducees, which complicates the issue even without speculating about whether or not Noahide law could have been referred to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  3. #3
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: God’s Law and Christianity

    When a person, Jew or Gentile, is born again of the Spirit of God the Law has been covered for them by the blood of Jesus Christ. He, Jesus by His action on the cross has taken away any condemnation by the Law, and that is the important part, but the Law still stands as far as the rest of the world is concerned even for those reborn. So, a believer cannot wilfully break it nor can they abuse it without God's chastisement. That doesn't mean they have lost their salvation, what it does mean is that being of God's children He will punish them as any father would do. God does not accept disobedience in any circumstance as Exodus and Deuteronomy explains and so the same obedience applies to His church. That is the reason that Jesus Christ is seen to be always interceding for His church, why? Because saved sinners still retain their memories and are prone to falling into sin yet Jesus is always there to pick them up and put them back on the narrow path again. Paul calls this a race which only ends when the Lord comes back for that will be the time when the conflict in the believer will be over.

  4. #4

    Default Re: God’s Law and Christianity

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz
    It's also worth noting that the Noahide Law concept had existed for at least a couple centuries before the lifetime of Jesus, as is evidenced by its appearance in the non-canonical Book of Jubilees. Therefore, it could be referenced in the New Testament. Hard to know when a generic term is used, but it may have been contextually clear to people at the time. Although, we know the Pharisees at the time would have understood the meaning of “the law” differently than the Sadducees, which complicates the issue even without speculating about whether or not Noahide law could have been referred to.
    Is there a generally accepted approach within Judaism to address grey areas like that (or are they necessarily grey in the first place)? I’m unaware of the extent to which there is any central authority. From a Christian perspective, it seems significant that the Gospel writers recognized the reference to “love me…..keep my commandments” from the OT and recorded it specifically. Or even that Jesus himself, who was the one (triune) to write the Commandments on stone anyway, was very clear about it (do this if you love me or don’t if you don’t). His exchanges with the Pharisees and Sadducees whenever they tried to publicly discredit him offer clues to the context. Jesus predicted the fall of the Temple, and based on the diverse nature of his audience as well as the legal themes he touched on the most, his interpretation of the law is explicitly universal, and that’s part of what got him in so much trouble.
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew 22
    34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
    35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
    36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
    37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
    38 This is the first and great commandment.
    39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
    When directly challenged to speak with authority on the law, Jesus offered to teach, not to rewrite.
    Quote Originally Posted by Love God
    1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
    2. You shall make no idols.
    3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
    4. Keep the Sabbath day holy (Isaiah 58:13)
    Quote Originally Posted by Love Your Fellow Man
    5. Honor your father and your mother.
    6. You shall not murder.
    7. You shall not commit adultery.
    8. You shall not steal.
    9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
    10. You shall not covet.
    He was also quite strict.
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew 5
    21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
    22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
    have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
    28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
    29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
    30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
    31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
    32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
    33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
    34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
    35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
    36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
    37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
    48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
    Here he touches on specific legal themes of murder, theft, adultery, blasphemy, false testimony and covetousness, using simple examples everyone can understand. Even regarding the Sabbath, he approaches the issue in a universal context of the creation of the world:
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark 2
    23 And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.
    24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?
    25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?
    26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?
    27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
    28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
    It seems Jesus rejected the religious authorities’ emphasis on allegedly correct action from a legal standpoint, and stressed in superlative terms the importance of correct mind and thought which precedes action. This shouldn’t have been a foreign concept to the listener either, as God told the prophet Samuel, “the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.” It also makes clear why salvation through correct works is impossible from that standpoint.
    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz
    In both cases it is clear who is being specifically addressed – Israel. In other words, the people traditionally believed to be the descendants of Yaᶜăqōḇ (Jacob) otherwise known as Yiśrāᵓęl (Israel). That’s the source of the term “children of Israel” in translation, because “descendants” and “children” are the same word in Hebrew. Modern people who clearly fit this category are Jews and Samaritans.
    It certainly is. That’s why what Jesus said and John and Paul explained in their letters is so important. And it’s because of that connection it seems troubling that so much of Christian tradition if not doctrine has been built on adapting practice to convenience or circumstance rather than on obedience, such as the de facto sanctification of Sunday over the Sabbath, coming up with something called “just war,” or the idea that the law is outdated/nullified by Jesus, etc.

    If Jesus says to love is to obey God’s law, and Christians say God’s law is “nailed to the cross” or there is a Pope who can decide what the law is, how are Christians supposed to love God? It’s not a veiled accusation either. I’m a daily liar and a murderer and an adulterer etc by thought and word alone according to Jesus. And so it’s not with pride but with grim terror that I wonder if the Church isn’t way off base as a community for the most part. In today’s world of consumerism and marketing, it just seems like the Church is commodified, built to attract and maintain a loyal customer base, rather than to “take up the cross,” to seek and share the Truth at all costs.

    That’s also part of why I value the Jewish perspective, since the importance of understanding the law is still maintained there in a way modern Christianity has mostly abandoned. The fiasco of Shabbetaianism I think is a lesson in the dangers of asserting that the fulfillment of the law is synonymous with its annulment. Paul himself practically foreshadowed the logical pitfalls in Romans 7.
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; November 29, 2021 at 08:16 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    No, we don't care about your libertarian "evidence".
    “To live without faith, without a heritage to defend, without battling constantly for truth, is not to live but to ‘get along’; we must never just ‘get along’.” - Pier Giorgio Frassati

  5. #5
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: God’s Law and Christianity

    The coming of Christ into the world was as He said, " not to destroy the Law, rather to fulfil it..." which He did on that cross by paying in blood the price of sin for all them that the Father had given Him before the foundation of the world. So, the Law stands even for the saved as they carry on into their new life in Christ.

  6. #6

    Default Re: God’s Law and Christianity

    The commandment to keep the Sabbath seems to rely on special revelation. I don't think anyone would suggest we innately know working on Saturday is wrong. (And yes, the Sabbath is on Saturday; sorry, Sunday Sabbatarians.)

    But there's no Biblical record of God commanding anyone to observe a Sabbath before Moses, and while God punishes Israel's neighbors for injustice and immorality, he never judges a Gentile nation for not keeping the Sabbath, despite their being aware of it.

    So this seems to point away from the Sabbath being a universal moral law and toward its being an Israelite distinctive.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: God’s Law and Christianity

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodromos View Post
    The commandment to keep the Sabbath seems to rely on special revelation. I don't think anyone would suggest we innately know working on Saturday is wrong. (And yes, the Sabbath is on Saturday; sorry, Sunday Sabbatarians.)

    But there's no Biblical record of God commanding anyone to observe a Sabbath before Moses, and while God punishes Israel's neighbors for injustice and immorality, he never judges a Gentile nation for not keeping the Sabbath, despite their being aware of it.

    So this seems to point away from the Sabbath being a universal moral law and toward its being an Israelite distinctive.
    I mean….God himself observed the sabbath during creation week. It was as significant as the creation of the sun and stars or plants and animals. I get your point but it seems odd for only one of the commandments to be an Israelite ceremonial rule. The reason Sunday came into fashion was because it was a day of significance for Roman pagans and especially sun worshippers, and so it was convenient to co-opt it by imperial authority when Constantine converted. God’s law doesn’t say people can only worship on sabbath (Colossians 2:16), but it does say the sabbath is to be observed. As Paul and John mention, early Christians observed the sabbath, and the Augsburg Confession calls out Roman arrogance directly.

    They [the Catholics] allege the Sabbath changed into Sunday, the Lord’s day, contrary to the decalogue, as it appears; neither is there any example more boasted of than the changing of the Sabbath day. Great, they say, is the power and authority of the church, since it dispensed with one of the ten commandments.
    Indeed it was Roman law, not God, that officially enshrined Sunday observance in 321, though some Christians in Rome and Alexandria had carried the tradition over from sun worship before that. As for the writings of saints or prominent Christians from history, what can anything they say do to alter the law of God? To reiterate, the danger is that sabbath is not being observed, not that other days are as well. If obedience to the law is what it means to love God, it seems an incredibly serious issue to just “change” for convenience.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    No, we don't care about your libertarian "evidence".
    “To live without faith, without a heritage to defend, without battling constantly for truth, is not to live but to ‘get along’; we must never just ‘get along’.” - Pier Giorgio Frassati

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    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: God’s Law and Christianity

    By the Creation timeline God rested on the seventh day Creation having been finalised. To the Jew that day falls on a Saturday meaning that Sunday is the first day of the week so it for them is not the Sabbath. So, why is it important? It is so that man could rest up from his work on the same timeline that God did. Indeed it is significant because God talks about them that are saved as entering His rest. However certain Jews took this day of rest to the extremes wherein we find Jesus in conflict with them. He reminded them that the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath but that didn't satisfy them at all for it only made them want to kill Him even more.

  9. #9

    Default Re: God’s Law and Christianity

    Jesus observed the sabbath throughout his life.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    No, we don't care about your libertarian "evidence".
    “To live without faith, without a heritage to defend, without battling constantly for truth, is not to live but to ‘get along’; we must never just ‘get along’.” - Pier Giorgio Frassati

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    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: God’s Law and Christianity

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    Jesus observed the sabbath throughout his life.
    Lord Thesaurian,

    Since Jesus Christ our Lord is also our Creator it follows that in making there a Sabbath Day He would follow it rigorously whilst here on earth in human form. The sabbath was a day when men and women could rest from their daily slogs and reflect on all that God was doing for them and their environment.

  11. #11

    Default Re: God’s Law and Christianity

    I guess you answered your own question then.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicus View Post
    No, we don't care about your libertarian "evidence".
    “To live without faith, without a heritage to defend, without battling constantly for truth, is not to live but to ‘get along’; we must never just ‘get along’.” - Pier Giorgio Frassati

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    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: God’s Law and Christianity

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Thesaurian View Post
    I guess you answered your own question then.
    Lord Thesaurian,

    What question was that?

  13. #13
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: God’s Law and Christianity

    God has given ONLY one law. "Love every human being and consider that you love Me".
    The TGC mod's Turkomanic Leaque Preview is out.

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    Default Re: God’s Law and Christianity

    Antoniusll,

    Didn't Jesus say, " Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind..." as the first commandment and then go on to say the second greatest being, " Love your neighbour as yourself..." ?

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    Default Re: God’s Law and Christianity

    God actually gave us the example how to live our lives.
    By living among humans he gave Him self as example:
    How to grow as a child ...That means that God sees Humans not as inferior spiece and to prove that He hambles Him Self and gets born as human.
    How to work.
    How to follow the rules of Faith.
    How not to judge others before judge ourselves first.
    How to forgive others that make us harm.
    How it is never too loate to regret aboyt our mistakes untill our last breath.
    And finally what will be the reward about how we live our lives.
    Under that examples the First Ecumenical Counsil says that people are " Κατ' εικόνα και καθ' ομοίωσιν" of the God. That in my inperfected english means that God gave humans the nature and the soul and above all the freedom of will to reach as cosest to God as it gets. The other meaning descibed in Mathew Gospel that God wont actually valuate howmany a Christian or a human being goes to Church but how much he/she sees all the rest of Humans as copies of God. So being mercyfull to a stranger automaticaly you are being mercyfull To Go0d Him Self. Hospitaling a refuge means that you may hospital God Him Self. In 2015 hundreds of thousands of refuges crossed the sea borders from Turkey to Greece.
    Take a good look to those elder women,:


    That Syrian mother had nothing to give her baby to eat. Those elder women actually follow what you describe as
    Love your neighbour as yourself..."
    because as neighbour in the Christian Faith are all humans.
    What Mathew's Gospel describes about the finall judgement is that "that Syrian woman May BE The Mother of God and the babe The Chist Him self" ..by denying help to them You deny help to Christ Him self.
    Human soul sees not boundries when it comes to compation and charity and help. God by living aming us and sucrifising Him self for us gave us the path we all -no matter our faith is- to follow.
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  16. #16
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: God’s Law and Christianity

    Anthoniusll,

    The reason that Jesus Christ came to this earth was because not one person was capable of returning to God off the back of his or her own nature, why? Because by the fall of Adam and Eve all humanity was handed over to the power of sin which made every single person bound to it in such a way as to be quite seduced by it. Men and women could do good things yet still fall short of the glory of God and many still do even today and so never understand how far from God they are. They cannot grasp that only God can release them from the sin the binds them and do so in a Supernatural way. Easy I hear some declare for all one has to do is believe in Jesus and the curse is dealt with but no! Salvation comes by the hearing or reading of the Gospel whereupon the Holy Spirit breaks open the hardened heart to the understanding of how lost that person really is. Some might ask how deep is that? The answer being that all who are sinners are already dead in their sin and since no dead person can save themselves the cry for repentance follows the breaking of that person's heart.

    Repentance is a gift from God, just as faith is, just as justification is, just as sanctification is, and all done for the purpose of regenerating a fallen heart. It is God Who does all those things in the heart of one who is dead in their sin. No man may come to Jesus unless the Father draws him and no man can get back to the Father by anything or other than by Jesus Christ. That is how God planned and orchestrates salvation from sin and done so before the worlds were made. All the religion in the world can therefore be said to be of man's works and in most cases because man was given free will, but yet is that even true? I would suggest not simply because man was never free to do anything. Oh there is no doubt that God gave man a will yet in the garden it was not free because of the ban on eating from a certain tree and it is certainly still not free because every sinner is dead in their sin meaning again that no dead person has ever chosen anything to make him or her alive. So, where do good works come in?

    Good works as James writes are an expected testimony of what God has done in the regenerating experience of that person. In other words we are expected to emulate the One Who saved us from our sin and to tell of it as He would have done. By the Faith that He imputed to us we are to go out into the world and tell sinning people of what Christ Jesus did for us and can do for them if they but believe on Him. That telling is the Gospel plus our experience of it and it makes up the power of God unto salvation to those with eyes to see and ears to hear and accept it. We were never told to sit ourselves in ivory towers covered in gold cladded robes for that is no more than the Pharisees and Sadducees and Scribes did expecting the laurels they thought they deserved. Men and women of God walk simply clothed bearing witness to what Jesus Christ did for their lives and as one can see it is no easy matter.

  17. #17
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: God’s Law and Christianity

    Then you call the Church Great Fathers of Christianity of the 1st Ecumenical Counsil liars. Also you call Mathew a liar of how the final judgement and what is important to any human being's life actions that matter liar? Do you?
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  18. #18
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: God’s Law and Christianity

    Anthoniusll,

    I'm telling what the Bible, the word of God, says, so please tell me the lies I have made?

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