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Thread: [Decision] Tiered Milestone Awards

  1. #21
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: [Decision] Tiered Milestone Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by POVG
    I don't think anyone spams the forum for an award.
    At present there is no such award, but you would be awarding people for spamming, whether they did so intentionally to get an award or not.

    When I initially came up with the milestone, I worked out a rough average of 1k posts per member per year, so simplified 10 years 10k posts. That would include members who are mostly active in one area of the forum but also sporadically in others. Modders tend to come way below that average, debaters above it. But the point wasn't to mark contributions in one area, rather those members who move around TWC.

    Much as I love a blinging diamonds - 4G's work around is pretty reasonable.

  2. #22

    Default Re: [Decision] Tiered Milestone Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    At present there is no such award, but you would be awarding people for spamming, whether they did so intentionally to get an award or not.

    When I initially came up with the milestone, I worked out a rough average of 1k posts per member per year, so simplified 10 years 10k posts. That would include members who are mostly active in one area of the forum but also sporadically in others. Modders tend to come way below that average, debaters above it. But the point wasn't to mark contributions in one area, rather those members who move around TWC.

    Much as I love a blinging diamonds - 4G's work around is pretty reasonable.
    I don't see much coherence in what we have now or what ggggtotalwarrior contemplated on. It jumps between hard to reconcile criteria. What I presented is quite straight forward and simplistic. It recognizes those who have been around for a long time and those that created a lot of activity. They use simplistic and logical increments. Not sure what some find complicated about that. We already have rules against spamming. Spamming is of little issue on TWC and much of that exists would make little differences based on the thresholds I've put up forward.
    The Armenian Issue

  3. #23
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: [Decision] Tiered Milestone Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by POVG
    I don't see much coherence in what we have now or what ggggtotalwarrior contemplated on. It jumps between hard to reconcile criteria. What I presented is quite straight forward and simplistic. It recognizes those who have been around for a long time and those that created a lot of activity. They use simplistic and logical increments. Not sure what some find complicated about that. We already have rules against spamming. Spamming is of little issue on TWC and much of that exists would make little differences based on the thresholds I've put up forward.
    Maybe consider, if most here are saying they think the proposal is overly complicated, you need to re-think it and find compromise.
    Last edited by Flinn; November 26, 2021 at 07:28 AM. Reason: clean up

  4. #24
    Gaius Baltar's Avatar Old gods die hard
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    Default Re: [Decision] Tiered Milestone Awards

    Support, great idea. Spamming not so much an issue anymore.

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  5. #25

    Default Re: [Decision] Tiered Milestone Awards

    As long as the award is a significant "Milestone" then i am fine with it.

    15,000 Posts in less than 10 years (min 5 years) This is a lot of post in a short time.
    10,000 Posts in 10 years.

    20,000 Posts in 20 years
    30,000 posts in 10 years

    Any less than that, I think trivialized it.

    The site started in 2003 so 20 years is 2023. We would be set for a while.

  6. #26

    Default Re: [Decision] Tiered Milestone Awards

    Pulling down post requirement for Lifetime awards by half per suggestions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    Maybe consider, if most here are saying they think the proposal is overly complicated, you need to re-think it and find compromise.
    Not really most, but 4, with 5 supports. If any of those 4 people attempted at explaining why having simple incremental makes it complicated while having an unrelated and not scalable criteria makes more sense, I can attempt to compromise, yes.
    The Armenian Issue

  7. #27

    Default Re: [Decision] Tiered Milestone Awards

    Lifetime Awards
    Bronze: 5 years (with 500 posts)
    Silver: 10 years (with 1000 posts)
    Gold: 15 years (with 1500 posts)
    Platinum: 20 years (with 2000 posts)
    It is very odd to reward just 5 years and 500 posts
    In general the number of posts for all levels is minimal... 100 posts a year is not much.
    If tis would start at 10 years, not 5 years, i would not have an issue with it. (I think 15 is too little).

    Activity Awards
    Bronze: 10k posts
    Silver: 20k posts
    Gold: 30k posts
    Platinum: 40k posts
    Diamond: 50k posts
    Same here, 10,000 without a year component is too little.

    I am not opposed to different approaches to a "milestone" award, but i am concern about the workload if the standards are too low and too many members qualify.

    For now, I am still abstaining.

  8. #28
    ggggtotalwarrior's Avatar hey it geg
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    Default Re: [Decision] Tiered Milestone Awards

    I don’t like it because we currently have a milestone award with some very specific criteria and have had such for quite a long time. IMO completely abandoning that and coming up with a new award for basically the same thing that doesn’t follow remotely the same criteria in both standards and format doesn’t add anything but award bloat and cheapen what the people with the current award have already been awarded. My proposal was simply to add lower tiers like you are proposing here while giving the option for a Bronze/Silver Award that is attainable without being entirely reliant on spam, much like how the 15 year rule was added to the milestone award a few years ago. An award entirely dedicated to/only possible to achieve vis post count is a bad idea IMO for the reasons Halie stated.
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  9. #29

    Default Re: [Decision] Tiered Milestone Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by ggggtotalwarrior View Post
    I don’t like it because we currently have a milestone award with some very specific criteria and have had such for quite a long time. IMO completely abandoning that and coming up with a new award for basically the same thing that doesn’t follow remotely the same criteria in both standards and format doesn’t add anything but award bloat and cheapen what the people with the current award have already been awarded. My proposal was simply to add lower tiers like you are proposing here while giving the option for a Bronze/Silver Award that is attainable without being entirely reliant on spam, much like how the 15 year rule was added to the milestone award a few years ago. An award entirely dedicated to/only possible to achieve vis post count is a bad idea IMO for the reasons Halie stated.
    Actually, the Milestone award in its current form is less than a year old. It was much simpler beforehand with no change for a very long time but the latest change added bunch of pointless criteria that doesn't make sense together. I am not following those criteria on purpose.
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  10. #30
    ggggtotalwarrior's Avatar hey it geg
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    Default Re: [Decision] Tiered Milestone Awards

    I mean you can say that but added awards with even worse criteria that aren’t consistent with what we currently have is pretty much the worst road you can take from that point unless you’re purposely just trying to tank the entire thing with multiple milestone awards with different criteria. I see the logic behind the changes (which tbh I thought dated back to early 2020, not 2021) in that it was meant to award the very long-time users who weren’t exactly spammers, as given the state of the forum nowadays it’s not exactly easy to average 3 posts/day for a decade, and consequently/perhaps controversially was amended in the opposite direction for equality.

    I think enforcing separate rules/awards that don’t align with the current milestone award in criteria, and one that is entirely post count-related, is a bad idea. In fact I’d argue that while maybe the 20k/5 year amendment to the current award should not have gone through, the 15 year/no post requirement was a perfect addition. If you’re that insistent the current rule set is too complicated, maybe my proposal of silver/bronze could be amended to something like 7K/7 years and 5K/5 years. Much less complicated than having 2-3 sets of different criteria to trigger and still based on the old 10/10 requirement you thought was perfect.
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  11. #31
    Flinn's Avatar His Dudeness of TWC
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    Default Re: [Decision] Tiered Milestone Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by ggggtotalwarrior View Post
    I don’t like it because we currently have a milestone award with some very specific criteria and have had such for quite a long time. IMO completely abandoning that and coming up with a new award for basically the same thing that doesn’t follow remotely the same criteria in both standards and format doesn’t add anything but award bloat and cheapen what the people with the current award have already been awarded. My proposal was simply to add lower tiers like you are proposing here while giving the option for a Bronze/Silver Award that is attainable without being entirely reliant on spam, much like how the 15 year rule was added to the milestone award a few years ago. An award entirely dedicated to/only possible to achieve vis post count is a bad idea IMO for the reasons Halie stated.
    Stop talking on my behalf, dammit!

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Actually, the Milestone award in its current form is less than a year old. It was much simpler beforehand with no change for a very long time but the latest change added bunch of pointless criteria that doesn't make sense together.
    On the contrary, the actual reasoning is quite consistent as each of the thresholds represent a big achievement by itself, as it was originally intended with the first iteration of the award and as agreed by basically every one who supported and voted yes during the last update. (17 yes, 2 no.. just saying)

    I am not following those criteria on purpose.
    This was pretty evident since the OP, it is clear by now that this amendment is more pointed toward overhauling the sense of this award than making it more comprehensive as per the original intent which made Halie propose it, or: the Milestone Award is meant to be given after an exceptional goal has been reached. This amendment only devalues it.
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  12. #32

    Default Re: [Decision] Tiered Milestone Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by Flinn View Post
    Stop talking on my behalf, dammit!
    On the contrary, the actual reasoning is quite consistent as each of the thresholds represent a big achievement by itself, as it was originally intended with the first iteration of the award and as agreed by basically every one who supported and voted yes during the last update. (17 yes, 2 no.. just saying)
    This was pretty evident since the OP, it is clear by now that this amendment is more pointed toward overhauling the sense of this award than making it more comprehensive as per the original intent which made Halie propose it, or: the Milestone Award is meant to be given after an exceptional goal has been reached. This amendment only devalues it.
    The previous decision was a big mistake in my opinion. I was late to the discussion and I think I could turn a bunch of people around if I was there earlier. I saw it as hollowing out the actual award. It's a Milestone award but you can not tell me what milestone one with the award actually clears. You can only tell me a set of them. What's being awarded there is three different thresholds that do not have a coherent connection. With my proposal you clearly know what milestone one cleared away. The criteria here is specific and coherently incremental. This amendment gives an actual meaning to members clearing milestones.
    The Armenian Issue

  13. #33
    Gaius Baltar's Avatar Old gods die hard
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    Default Re: [Decision] Tiered Milestone Awards

    Maybe we should tie the awards to other criteria as well,

    Example: For Bronze level one of the following plus 10k posts. (Competition medal, staff service at bronze level, etc.)

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  14. #34

    Default Re: [Decision] Tiered Milestone Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    The previous decision was a big mistake in my opinion. I was late to the discussion and I think I could turn a bunch of people around if I was there earlier. I saw it as hollowing out the actual award. It's a Milestone award but you can not tell me what milestone one with the award actually clears. You can only tell me a set of them. What's being awarded there is three different thresholds that do not have a coherent connection. With my proposal you clearly know what milestone one cleared away. The criteria here is specific and coherently incremental. This amendment gives an actual meaning to members clearing milestones.
    I think the threshold is quite clear.
    20,000 posts in 5 years
    10,000 posts in 10 year
    no set number in 15 years

    There is the standard: 10,000 posts / 10 years
    Less years and more posts and less post and more years are recognized.

    Currently, it takes into account those who post a lot in much less time, and those who have been here a for longer time but do not post so prolifically.
    What is ideal is that each type of poster is given the same award. Not one type is better than the other.

  15. #35
    Dismounted Feudal Knight's Avatar my horse for a unicode
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    Default Re: [Decision] Tiered Milestone Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Baltar View Post
    Maybe we should tie the awards to other criteria as well,

    Example: For Bronze level one of the following plus 10k posts. (Competition medal, staff service at bronze level, etc.)
    This is where I go from somewhat unnecessary but abstain, to outright oppose when medals literally breed more metals rather than the specific contributions.
    Last edited by Dismounted Feudal Knight; November 27, 2021 at 04:44 AM. Reason: Butchered my own point
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  16. #36

    Default Re: [Decision] Tiered Milestone Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    Less years and more posts and less post and more years are recognized.
    This sounds catchy but I don't see much coherence in it. It actually spams the award after 15 years, as while important members don't get such an award till they wait 15 years despite having Citizen worthy contributions due to their low post count, anyone who logs in once or twice a years can get it if they post even once. Longer presence in a community should come with incremental participation, not less of it. The current award equates 5 years/20k posts, 10 years/10k posts and 15 years/no posts. I don't see the logic in that.
    Last edited by PointOfViewGun; November 27, 2021 at 06:06 AM. Reason: Corrected criteria per PikeStance
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  17. #37

    Default Re: [Decision] Tiered Milestone Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    This sounds catchy but I don't see much coherence in it. It actually spams the award after 15 years, as while important members don't get such an award till they wait 15 years despite having Citizen worthy contributions due to their low post count, anyone who logs in once or twice a years can get it if they post even once. Longer presence in a community should come with incremental participation, not less of it. The current award equates 5 years/10k posts, 10 years/20k posts and 15 years/no posts. I don't see the logic in that.
    In your proposal, you have 15 years and 1500 posts which is very low bar for being member for 15 years.
    The emboldened part is incorrect

    20,000 posts in 5 years
    10,000 posts in 10 year
    no set number in 15 years

  18. #38

    Default Re: [Decision] Tiered Milestone Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    In your proposal, you have 15 years and 1500 posts which is very low bar for being member for 15 years.
    The emboldened part is incorrect

    20,000 posts in 5 years
    10,000 posts in 10 year
    no set number in 15 years
    Corrected it. Thanks. There are Citizens with less than 1500 posts in that time span. My proposal would still fail to address them but I think 1500, updated from 3000, is a fair number. I don't really understand your point though. The current award that you defend has no post criteria for 15 years. The award that you prefer has an even lower bar per your own argument.
    The Armenian Issue

  19. #39

    Default Re: [Decision] Tiered Milestone Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    Corrected it. Thanks. There are Citizens with less than 1500 posts in that time span. My proposal would still fail to address them but I think 1500, updated from 3000, is a fair number. I don't really understand your point though. The current award that you defend has no post criteria for 15 years. The award that you prefer has an even lower bar per your own argument.
    15 years is member joining in Nov. 2006 and earlier. if they are still active after 15 years, that is impressive by itself. If you want to add a minimal post count. Many modders do not post much, so it at least get those types of members a well deserved award. is there a reasonable number that would not inhibit that type of member from receiving a Milestone award?

    I am not really "defending it." I am not sure your propose changes is better. The current award reasonably weighs time with activity. In a few years, we will need to add "20 years" to and then a tier may be necessary at that time.

  20. #40

    Default Re: [Decision] Tiered Milestone Awards

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    15 years is member joining in Nov. 2006 and earlier. if they are still active after 15 years, that is impressive by itself. If you want to add a minimal post count. Many modders do not post much, so it at least get those types of members a well deserved award. is there a reasonable number that would not inhibit that type of member from receiving a Milestone award?

    I am not really "defending it." I am not sure your propose changes is better. The current award reasonably weighs time with activity. In a few years, we will need to add "20 years" to and then a tier may be necessary at that time.
    I'm confused. Just a post earlier you called 15 years with 1500 posts a very low bar. Now you're arguing that 15 years with no post count requirement is a good bar to clear. What am I missing?
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