Character Traits!

[Aerrol]

Hello,

Up until now, I've had issues with registration, so I haven't been able to post - thus, I am a forum noob. That said, it's quite possible that this is the wrong place for this, but a thought struck me today...

Am I the only one that hates the trait gain system for M2TW? And for that matter RTW (Unfortunately, I haven't played any other TW games...)? Don't get me wrong, I love the idea that generals "grow" - I suppose I am an roleplaying geek that way... I just really dislike the random/hidden requirement trait gain system. Personally, I feel that even with the incredible span of traits, I have little control of which generals get what trait. That said, I play my campaigns in constant fear that any general I leave in a city will turn into a lewd, insane, drunk, and often find that I am unable to gain some battle-activated traits despite completing the apparent requirements (I.e. FactionKiller - I was under the impression it was given upon the destruction of a faction, possibly with your faction leader, yet I have never gotten this trait without the give_trait cheat...).

That said, this thread could be moved to the general discussion with someone leaving a detailed guide of 'how to get' certain traits. OR, as I personally feel would be better, a system implemented where, much like an rpg, I suppose, one chooses traits after x turns in a city, or x victories in battle. Now, up until recently, I would be convinced that this would be an impossibility for M2TW, but I have seen some rather impressive scripting feats accomplished by modders already (For instance, The Provincial Titles Project by the Mediaeval Auctoriso Team). My own modding ability is, of course, rather limited - I know how to install a mod, how to edit basic files, learned how to add units...but I figured I'd leave the idea out there. Any mod which gave me more control over the traits of my generals without cheats would be absolutely grand.

Once again, I am aware of how difficult such a system would be...but perhaps it could work?

Cheers,

Aerrol

[Trajan]

I don't think that's possible but I'm really just guessing here.

Moved to The Gathering.

[KnightErrant]

You are quite right that the current VnV system is full of bugs.
Several modders have addressed this problem and attempted
fixes. One such fix is in this thread:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=74566
Basically the files changed are export_descr_character_traits.txt
and export_descr_ancillaries.txt (plus associated test files). These
changes at least get rid of the really stupid traits like governors
becoming lewd, drunken, etc. for being in a settlement and castle
governors always becoming BadTaxman. This mod also fixes some
things you might not have noticed like the one-star admirals that
pop up occasionally (this is an ancillary fix). It doesn't fix everything
but its a good start.

Its also a good learning tool. I didn't install it, I went through and
diff'd the file to the vanilla version and examined every change to
teach myself. Although it took a couple of hours I thought it was
well worth it. My two cents.

[Snipafist]

looking through export_character_traits gives a good (but dry) idea as to how traits are picked up. Some general themes:
-generals that release prisoners, don't kill too many men in battle personally, and don't tax the people under happy (so keeping order at 105% or higher) tend to pick up chivalric traits.
-generals that execute prisoners, are killing machines in battle, and tax the people till they bleed and cry (public order 100% or under, high tax rates) tend to pick up dread traits
-fighting a lot gives you more command stars (duh, included here for sake of completeness)
-buildings in a settlement can determine types of traits and ancillaries picked up.
--Taverns offer drinking traits (which actually start off pretty good, but if you let it get out of control it can be problematic), as well as gambling and sexing traits. The chances of picking these up initially are pretty low, but the higher-end tavern buildings increase the odds significantly, so avoid coaching houses and pleasure palaces if you can.
--Military buildings offer command ancillaries. High-level buildings will offer Master of Archers, special soldiers, etc. These are handy to have around.
--Higher level town halls seem to offer public planning ancillaries like Architects. Definitely a must-have.
--Trading buildings like markets and merchant docks offer trading skills, but at high levels can also be corrupting influences on your character. If you're going to build up to high-level markets, make sure to build the university line of buildings to make it worth your characters' while to stay in there.
-universities (and alchemists' labs, castle libraries, etc.) offer bonuses to learned things, most notably the "smart" line of traits, which are always great to have. They also offer intellectual ancillaries, which are often of great help.
-artistic buildings (music halls, artist galleries, etc.) offer lots of ancillaries that increase public order and popularity and offer more cultured types of traits. These are almost always good to build, but be aware that characters can pick up some unwanted limp-wristed traits from these buildings as well.

When you sit down and think on it, most of these make sense. If you send your character into a town with a huge whorehouse, a gigantic marketplace filled with all kinds of exotic and addictive things, and huge art galleries don't be surprised if he comes out a decadent, gambling, drinking, womanizing culture afficionado.

[Aerrol]

Thanks, I wasn't really aware of the the building issues - especially taverns being bad for your generals!

[Snipafist]

Thanks, I wasn't really aware of the the building issues - especially taverns being bad for your generals!

Taverns and such aren't too terrible on their own. The minor risks are worth the rewards (some decent ancillaries and you can recruit spies/assassins). Also don't forget that the drinking line of traits is overall pretty good, and even Once you hit Coaching House and Pleasure Palace though, it gets insane. Don't leave a character in there unless you want him to come out a whoring debauched drunken gambler. All the same, a coaching house's aesthetic and expensive tastes traits carry the benefit of reducing squalor, although they completely level your character's command score. The "girls" line of traits is actually pretty good! It starts off with +2 troop morale and then starts decreasing. If you're careful, you just might benefit from a little stroll through a tavern . The gambler line of traits, is of course, terrible. No good comes from that.

I guess the moral is this: if your primary concern is finding a governor to reduce squalor and you don't mind having a worthless general and some lost trade revenue due to gambling, you might want to build a coaching house. Sadly, it offers very few benefits in terms of ancillaries offered (only a courtesan for the assassin). I've modded my game to make coaching houses and pleasure palaces worth the risk of building for the "extralegal" aid they give to assassins and spies. I'll probably post it with my mod v2.0 sometime later this week or next week, if you're interested.

[Pnutmaster]

That said, I play my campaigns in constant fear that any general I leave in a city will turn into a lewd, insane, drunk, and often find that I am unable to gain some battle-activated traits despite completing the apparent requirements (I.e. FactionKiller - I was under the impression it was given upon the destruction of a faction, possibly with your faction leader, yet I have never gotten this trait without the give_trait cheat...).

Imagine my surprise after creating faction specific 'faction killer' traits with completed descriptions, only to find that the trigger related to faction destruction was broken !

My own modding ability is, of course, rather limited - I know how to install a mod, how to edit basic files, learned how to add units...but I figured I'd leave the idea out there.

I had absolutely no modding abilities as of August 2006. Curiosity drove me to open up and compare files, make text adjustments here and there, and now I'm co-author of a fairly popular M2TW mod.