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Thread: The WFP suggested plan that Billionaires could fund to combat world hunger

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    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default The WFP suggested plan that Billionaires could fund to combat world hunger

    A few days ago, Elon Musk in an interview in CNN said that if the UN could prove that they could stop world hunger with 6B$, he would sell Tesla stock and do it.

    Well, the World Food Program now presented a plan ( https://www.wfp.org/appeal-billionaires-famine ) and to me, it sounds a decent plan.

    I am a bit skeptical about the delivery costs as they seem pretty low and I also wonder where 3B$ worth of food would come from as it would take effort to take food that would be wasted instead of causing local food shortages. But in general, it seems a solid plan although I am concerned whether the 42M people would enter a sustainable existence or they will be starving again in the next round of disasters.
    I honestly hope that Musk and other Mega-Billionaires will take the leap of faith and donate there. There is a food crisis and these people deserve help in my opinion.


    What do you think?
    Do you believe the math checks out? Do you think the Billionaires funding this would be a significant forward step that would help millions of people, or it would just be a temporal solution and these people or other people like them will be starving again in 2 years?
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    Tribunus
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    Default Re: The WFP suggested plan that Billionaires could fund to combat world hunger

    I think we're on the same page.

    Not a simp for Musk, but there was no way his retort wouldn't end up with a costed scheme, and there's no way to "end world hunger" which I think was the original jibe. I mean the warlords and other scum would be looking at angles to milk this as we speak.

    I hope Musk has a crack himself, sets a few things up like Gates etc have. He gets a lot of criticism and praise and I'm not always sure what its about. I mean as capitalists go he doesn't seem inhuman...all the time...I mean he jokes about whacking people but it seems more like crude humour than evil, don't think he's actually had countries destabilised etc.
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    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: The WFP suggested plan that Billionaires could fund to combat world hunger

    This isn't so much about Musk though. I agree that world hunger won't end with just saving people this time around, but between now and the next time, if a few multi-billionaires want to dump 5% of their fortune on this, it would earn them big points in my book and probably will shut up a few progressives.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: The WFP suggested plan that Billionaires could fund to combat world hunger

    Progressives aren't keen on wealthy oligarchs using donations as public relations. They're more keen on structurally sustainable solutions that don't depend on largesse. So I doubt this would shut them up - I imagine they'd still be keen on looking into Musk's taxes.

    Here I was thinking Musk was more interested in a city or two on Mars being named for him. He also seems to want a few third world universities in his name too. Throwing a few dollars into the third world corruption hole will certainly do it. But I fully expect a fair chunk of what ever he does to end up in the Cayman Islands thanks to all the hands that will take their share....
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    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: The WFP suggested plan that Billionaires could fund to combat world hunger

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    Progressives aren't keen on wealthy oligarchs using donations as public relations. They're more keen on structurally sustainable solutions that don't depend on largesse. So I doubt this would shut them up - I imagine they'd still be keen on looking into Musk's taxes.

    Here I was thinking Musk was more interested in a city or two on Mars being named for him. He also seems to want a few third world universities in his name too. Throwing a few dollars into the third world corruption hole will certainly do it. But I fully expect a fair chunk of what ever he does to end up in the Cayman Islands thanks to all the hands that will take their share....


    Some Progressives aren't keen on a major force towards electric, clean cars, space exploration and fighting climate change because Musk is not a cheerleader for everything in the progressive agenda. They bring some of the crap he does up, but if he was calling Conservative politicians names those progressives would love him.
    If Musk suggests he will bring a black transexual to space instead of William Shatner, they will forget all about his taxes and they will love him.
    If Musk suggests he's an antivaxxer and that Covid was made in China and maliciously spread by illegal immigrants, the conservatives will forget about his efforts on climate change.

    Thus, I am not talking about the popularity of Elon Musk and his PR stunts, I am talking about the effectiveness of that plan and whether it is a good idea.

    A lot of the money being lost to corruption as you suggest is an issue, but I don't think it will be major, as the deliveries are for food and aid. Parts of that may be misappropriated but with a huge campaign, as we're talking about billions worth of aid here, not a million or two, it would be harder for warlords to steal so much that it would make the endeavor meaningless.
    Last edited by alhoon; November 16, 2021 at 07:24 AM.
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    Default Re: The WFP suggested plan that Billionaires could fund to combat world hunger

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    What do you think?
    Do you believe the math checks out? Do you think the Billionaires funding this would be a significant forward step that would help millions of people, or it would just be a temporal solution and these people or other people like them will be starving again in 2 years?
    A solution to achieve what exactly? 100 years from now, all those people would be turned corpses and skeletons, starved or not.

    As a human race there are definitely more important things to spend billions on, planting more trees for example, instead of fueling the human population which cut them down in the first place. Or save endangered species to preserve biodiversity (humans are NOT endangered), or upgrade public education, or space research, etc.

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    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: The WFP suggested plan that Billionaires could fund to combat world hunger

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    A lot of the money being lost to corruption as you suggest is an issue, but I don't think it will be major, as the deliveries are for food and aid. Parts of that may be misappropriated but with a huge campaign, as we're talking about billions worth of aid here, not a million or two, it would be harder for warlords to steal so much that it would make the endeavor meaningless.
    Let me introduce you to my little friend Afghanistan. Money doesn't always solve problems, and certainly largesse doesn't. Sometimes too much of it creates problems. Most hunger in the world doesn't come about because of a lack of food, it comes about because there is something going on between people to break the distribution chain. Money won't always repair that break. Usually that thing has something to do with guns, shooting, sociopathic narcissists etc.

    So I appreciate billionaires being called out like this, I don't think it is going to stop Ethiopians and their friends killing each other and using food distribution capacity as a weapon of war (for example). Hundreds of billions spent on security in Afghanistan over the past few decades hasn't exactly solved shortage problems there, and don't even start me on the Congo (or what ever it is called now days).

    I'll be vey happy to be proven wrong on this one.
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    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: The WFP suggested plan that Billionaires could fund to combat world hunger

    In many of those places, people either make too little money to get food and clean water or they rely on subsistence farming that may be disrupted by things like the climate change or bombing (in the case of Yemen) or insurgents showing up to take the food and kill a bunch of people (Many places in the 3rd world).
    Money to bring food to those people would help.
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    Default Re: The WFP suggested plan that Billionaires could fund to combat world hunger

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    In many of those places, people either make too little money to get food and clean water or they rely on subsistence farming that may be disrupted by things like the climate change or bombing (in the case of Yemen) or insurgents showing up to take the food and kill a bunch of people (Many places in the 3rd world).
    Money to bring food to those people would help.
    You wouldn't be saving them because the majority of those are not suffering from disasters but broken environments that they're either unlucky enough to be born into or help making.

    All it'd achieve is just an extension of life, average life expectancy to be exact. How is this even a meaningful goal to anyone? Their whole life is a disaster and it has always been like this.
    Last edited by AqD; December 04, 2021 at 06:17 PM.

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    alhoon's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: The WFP suggested plan that Billionaires could fund to combat world hunger

    It is better than letting them die. This "not meaningful" goal would save millions of lives that may not seem important to you, but they are important to the people living them. Leaving them starve to death and suffer while we can extend their lives is bad. If you want to be a pragmatist, first, we need to keep them alive for their lives to improve and become "meaningful". But for me, extending their lives, hard as these may be, is a worthy goal in itself.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
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    Tribunus
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    Default Re: The WFP suggested plan that Billionaires could fund to combat world hunger

    This is a very engaging debate with good contributions. Alhoon I must spread some rep around before something something.

    The futility of extending someone's life is a matter of perspective of course. Prisoners on death row are often given a last meal of their choice, and I imagine care is taken that it not include parasites or or contaminants, an exercise in futility. By the same token, my son was born by Caesarean section, saving his and his mother's lives, arguably an exercise in futility as their deaths will inevitably come in a century or less, and hardly affect the national average one way or another.

    I would have mortgaged my house many ties over to save their lives, why do we spend money out of the public purse for this? Per5haps Australia's hefty pub;ic health budget could be better used saving lives in Africa?

    My personal view is that all these choices are arbitrary, but they have value because we choose them. I think we have a strong instinct to save lives, its extremely human (yes I did recently watch Blade Runner and shut up).

    Politically I think a lot of the money sent to the Third World is to offset latent guilt for the extreme exploitation my country and our allies subject many of them to. Or perhaps its just a pragmatic move, to diminish plague holes and disguise bribes to foreign leaders?

    Symptomatic (rather than causal) hunger doesn't obviate the value of charity, but it'df be great if Elon put as much effort into tweeting and acting on the causes of hunger as he does into toppling governments or banging starlets.
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    Default Re: The WFP suggested plan that Billionaires could fund to combat world hunger

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    It is better than letting them die. This "not meaningful" goal would save millions of lives that may not seem important to you, but they are important to the people living them. Leaving them starve to death and suffer while we can extend their lives is bad. If you want to be a pragmatist, first, we need to keep them alive for their lives to improve and become "meaningful". But for me, extending their lives, hard as these may be, is a worthy goal in itself.
    Do you think our world would be better off if everyone since the beginning of mankind had their life extended to 80 years old? no hunger, disease or war? Or rather, we'd have been deprived of the opportunities to solve problems and build better societies on our own?

    And what exactly has that kind of attitude and outside aid achieved? The countries who have been receiving extensive help since decades ago are still in need of help as of today. And now you want to double down the efforts - Have you ever checked how your own society or your neighbors' societies evolved? None of them were without death or suffering.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Politically I think a lot of the money sent to the Third World is to offset latent guilt for the extreme exploitation my country and our allies subject many of them to.
    It's a lie to call mutual-beneficial deals as exploitations. Surely some are stupid enough to ruin their own natural environment or kids for short-term profit, but why shouldn't it be something they learn on their own to deal with?

    I have the urge again to point out again that during Japan's industrialization their people had much worse, but within a few decades a country of illiterate peasants became the leading power in Asia, built an impressive military industry and education system - all before WW2, and look at what they have today. Would they call it exploitation? Or would Korea or China call it exploitation for western countries to move their factories there which in fact made them rich? I'd say it's the western laborers who were being exploited!
    Last edited by AqD; December 05, 2021 at 04:28 PM.

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    Tribunus
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    Default Re: The WFP suggested plan that Billionaires could fund to combat world hunger

    Quote Originally Posted by AqD View Post
    It's a lie to call mutual-beneficial deals as exploitations. Surely some are stupid enough to ruin their own natural environment or kids for short-term profit, but why shouldn't it be something they learn on their own to deal with?...
    Look I can see the sense in what you're saying but I don't see how it connects to what I'm saying. Some aid programs are straight up bribes.

    Quote Originally Posted by AqD View Post
    I have the urge again to point out again that during Japan's industrialization their people had much worse,...
    Japan industrialised on its own terms, and resisted colonisation. For its pains it got shut out of the US' Pacific system and nuked. They were hardly saints in this story but the bottom line is they were smashed for succeeding until they were needed as a forward base to control North Asia.

    A deal of military aid is given by Australia to neighbours like Malaysia and Indonesia, and in my country the are questions about what the aid we give results in. My own view is a its a straight up bribe to help whatever faction is in control to keep the other factions quiet. I think other aid is used in the same way. Just an opinion though, and this is the internet.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: The WFP suggested plan that Billionaires could fund to combat world hunger

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Look I can see the sense in what you're saying but I don't see how it connects to what I'm saying. Some aid programs are straight up bribes.



    Japan industrialised on its own terms, and resisted colonisation. For its pains it got shut out of the US' Pacific system and nuked. They were hardly saints in this story but the bottom line is they were smashed for succeeding until they were needed as a forward base to control North Asia.

    A deal of military aid is given by Australia to neighbours like Malaysia and Indonesia, and in my country the are questions about what the aid we give results in. My own view is a its a straight up bribe to help whatever faction is in control to keep the other factions quiet. I think other aid is used in the same way. Just an opinion though, and this is the internet.

    Bribes to whom? Australia, Japan or the US?

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    Default Re: The WFP suggested plan that Billionaires could fund to combat world hunger

    Quote Originally Posted by EarthFlatter View Post
    Bribes to whom? Australia, Japan or the US?
    None of those.
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