Taiwan is an Independent Country - called the Republic of China

[conon394]

Yeah, I'm sure McArthur would radio Mao every time he was planning on moving divisions in Korea. Warning opposing force of your side's plans is literal spying and treason, no matter how many mental gymnastics one performs to rationalize it.

Chinese did. They made clear their read line. They moved troops into North Korea and withdrew it was clear they were telegraphing their intentions. I really don't care what MAc would or would not have donce since FDR should have court marshaled and hung the idiot after the Philippines for dereliction of duty and and incompetence.

[Heathen Hammer]

Chinese did. They made clear their read line. They moved troops into North Korea and withdrew it was clear they were telegraphing their intentions. I really don't care what MAc would or would not have donce since FDR should have court marshaled and hung the idiot after the Philippines for dereliction of duty and and incompetence.

Um, okay.
That doesn't really change the fact that Milley is a de-facto traitor as what he does is de-facto treason.
Kinda goes to show that enlisting in US military in next few years is a very bad idea, given how top US military leadership is full of Chinese assets and traitors.

[conon394]

That doesn't really change the fact that Milley is a de-facto traitor as what he does is de-facto treason.

Umm It does since you have done demonstrated nothing to demonstrate that charge.

[Heathen Hammer]

I literally posted a link to Milley himself admitting it and you replied to that post...

[conon394]

I literally posted a link to Milley himself admitting it and you replied to that post...

Which if read a version not from the post revolves around him and other officials were talking to Chinese because they were concerned about political rhetoric in the US and US exercises in the Pacific. His communication would all have appeared to have gone through the normal formal high level means of talking to comparable officials in say Russia or China etc.

[Narf]

It looks like the PRC is preparing/practicing for a blockade of the island, which was always one of many scenarios. Even Chinese media compared the drills to a de facto blockade and pointed out Taiwan can easily be hit with missiles from the mainland. Munitions from the PLA drills have also landed in Japanese territorial waters. This is an escalation of Beijing’s grey zone warfare against its neighbors.


How the PLA can manage to economically cut off Taiwan without risking retaliatory measures from around the world is less clear.

It difficult to believe XI would lash out that hard - that is a full on invasion of Taiwan and essentially directly challenging the US to do something.

HI economic situation and and not be ensconced for another term do demand some serious stuff for domestic consumption. But at the extreme I think taking one of Taiwan's tiny islands in the straits right near China might be the outside of the envelope.

Seems like you two are saying on one side, Yes, it seems to be heading that way as it's in a escalating course with live fire drills now. And on the other No, properly not, just baby steps for to test the water.

Hummmmm.

[Heathen Hammer]

Which if read a version not from the post revolves around him and other officials were talking to Chinese because they were concerned about political rhetoric in the US and US exercises in the Pacific. His communication would all have appeared to have gone through the normal formal high level means of talking to comparable officials in say Russia or China etc.

Yeah, telling what your army will do in the event of war to the enemy in that war falls under textbook definition of treason no matter how many mental hoops one does. Imagine if Eisenhower would phone Hitler about his plans to invade Normandy in 1944.

[conon394]

Yeah, telling what your army will do in the event of war to the enemy in that war falls under textbook definition of treason no matter how many mental hoops one does. Imagine if Eisenhower would phone Hitler about his plans to invade Normandy in 1944.

You keep using examples of states already at war, not states communicating to defuse the possibility of war.

[Heathen Hammer]

You keep using examples of states already at war, not states communicating to defuse the possibility of war.

Milley didn't say anything about defusing the possibility of war, he just said he will tell his owners in Beijing if US decides to attack, which means the war is already a thing that's happening. Hence why Milley is a Chinese asset and traitor of USA and her people, as per his own admission. Perhaps people looking into military career, should probably not pick US military for the next while or so.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Beijing is extending its military drills to simulate a blockade of Taiwan, following four days of unprecedented live-fire exercises which observers say will be “normalised” as a “new reality” in the Taiwan Strait.

This comes as the PLA’s Eastern Theatre Command said joint navy and air force drills would continue around Taiwan, in preparation for operations of “joint defence” and “joint blockade”.

Meeting reporters the same day, Taiwanese Foreign Minister Joseph Wu said Beijing was “determined to link the East and South China seas through the Taiwan Strait so the entire area becomes its internal waters”, with motivations “far beyond Taiwan”.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/mili...ontinue-around

Despite “ending” the announced drills around Taiwan, military activities described by Chinese media as a blockade continue indefinitely. This could be an attempt by the PLA to continue implementing preparations for a long term blockade, without acknowledging it as such since that would be an act of war. Since Beijing seems to think they are so clever, I say the US should also conduct military exercises near the Strait of Malacca/in the SCS, “practicing” for a complete blockade of China-bound goods in the area. I’d like to see how long the communists can afford to bully Taiwan when 70% of their oil and gas and 60% of their trade goods have to make detours of several thousand miles.

[Lord Thesaurian]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=j_SNLEgKycE

Interesting insights on the way Xi has trapped himself between his political opponents, who understand war with the US would be national suicide for China, and the Party’s sycophants, who have been led to believe China is set to annihilate the US given the opportunity. It’s possible Xi recognizes the loss of face inflicted by the failure to stop Pelosi, and could be incentivized to ratchet up military tensions and expand active military recruitment as a pretext to postpone the Party Congress and reduce youth unemployment, similar to the way Mao launched the Cultural Revolution to hang onto power. One thing is clear: the CCP is running out of grey options in its escalating war against the US and our allies, and Xi’s personal political priorities will dictate what Beijing does next.

[Heathen Hammer]

China doesn't have to "annihilate" US. China's main weapon against USA isn't its military-industrial complex, its its intelligence-economic conglomerates that have key US officials as their assets and literal spies, including US generals like Milley. If Beijing-controlled Democrat party remains in power, it will be USA itself that will hand over Taiwan to China without firing a shot.

[Lord Thesaurian]

A Chinese state run think tank offers insight into what is described as the country’s opposition to and implied superiority to the rest of the world. For all the dire domestic issues facing the country and her geopolitical isolation, the elites still appear to think of her as a global superpower reconstructing her own world order, and intend to behave as such. China remains no less a threat to her neighbors and by extension the world, especially when she has less to lose.

There are two major gaps in contemporary China's renewed relationship with the outside world, which pose a significant strategic challenge for China at the moment.
“The first is the great divide 鸿沟 separating how Chinese people see themselves and how Western society sees China; there’s a significant gap between how we see ourselves and how the rest of the international community sees us.
“Another major difference is in the way we see the world and how people in other nations see it. China's perspectives, narratives, and discourses differ from the rest of the world in terms of understanding even basic ideas and concepts.
“This can be anything from the "great changes [unseen in a century]," globalization, and global governance, to multilateralism, rules, democracy, and human rights. The reasons for these two disparities are complex and variegated.
“The Chinese worldview in the New Era exhibits a number of new characteristics and approaches. The new features of China's worldview include three main aspects:
1. “It is [more] open and inclusive, and places its overall [global] outlook higher on the agenda; in the past, China only focused on matters related to China, but now it makes the voice of China heard more about what kind and how the world we should create; 
it has put forward inclusive concepts that embrace the interests of All Under Heaven 胸怀天下, such as creating a Community with a Shared Future for Mankind 人类命运共同体.
2. “It exudes more self-confidence and calm. China can now face the world squarely 平视; it is more self-confident and proactive 进取, with a more rational and mature worldview.
3. “It prioritizes fairness and justice 公平正义 while promoting global governance.

https://tuviagering.substack.com/p/d...august-23-2022

[Ludicus]

Taiwan per se/itself, is of no interest to the US. What does matter is the control of the TSMC. While Russian gas can be replaced with other forms of energy, microchips made in Taiwan cannot. Currently, Taiwan’s TSMC and South Korea’s Samsung lead the world in advanced chip fabrication.
The Battle Over Semiconductors

The rivalry between the two powers has most recently burst fully into the technological sphere with the U.S. Congress passing the CHIPS and Science Act in August, which was reinforced with additional moves by the Biden administration in early October. The aim of these measures is to secure stable U.S. access to advanced semiconductors in the future and deny the Chinese the same by restricting the export to China of equipment and designs necessary to develop and produce advanced microchips.

[AnthoniusII]

I did not have the time to read all previus posts but the thread's title emerges some questions.
If Taiwan is an indipenndent country and not a "rebel" province of China then why Spain is not 4 countries and is one?

• Basques fought for years for their independence.
• Catalonia wants to become independend
• Andalusia the same.

Why Belgium and Holland are one country each since half of their people FIGHT for their independence?
Why we contempted Russia that "invaded" east Ucraine in teritories that 90% are Russians?
Why Kurds do not have their own country with parts from Turkey , Iraq and Iran and Syria?
Do you see behind these questions WHY USA supports the "One China" feature despite their support to Taiwan? Because if they will recognise Taiwan as indipendend hundreds of provinces (half in Europe) will depand the same.
USA has another reason that do not want such a recignision. In their last treaty with native Americans US state recognised an indipendend Indian state within its teritories something that never put in use!!! IN Greek mythology there was the box of strms. No one wants to open it in mdern times. Politicians may say everything their audoence wants to hear but real politic is another thing!

[alhoon]

What a decent thing to call survivors of a coup attempt and ethnic cleansing orchestrated by Greece and started with an invasion of Greek forces as "lackey's of Turkey."

1. Mainland Chinese are survivors of a coup attempt from the right-wings during the civil war, the same guys that retreated in Taiwan, AND ethnic cleansing (The ethnic cleansing by the Communists that won the civil war).
2. The lackey's of Turkey are not the survivors of the supposed "ethnic cleansing" but the pseudo-government supported by the Turkish army and the immigrants that Turkey brought in after they ethnic cleansed the Greeks.

I don't see many people (aside of China and their lackeys) supporting the survivors of the coup attempt by the government that lost the civil war and ended up with just Taiwan. The reason for that is simple: The side that lost the coup attempt was the least-bad side and the worse side (the communists) won.

And who decides which side is actually the bad guys? Well, practically the media of each state. In the West, we are told Taiwanese are the not-bad guys because they are more democratic, they don't do genocides (any more) nor execute people by the tens of thousands... but that's to sell it. It is undeniable that the West turns a blind eye to many cases worse than China - Taiwan (Libya at the time comes to mind, Saudi Arabia with Yemen, Myanmar and the Rohingya, the massacres in Ethiopia etc).

The reason the West supports Taiwan has nothing to do with what is moral and right and much more to do with geopolitics and real-politick.

Very informative, I knew it was a ****-show, that's horrible and stupid of the Colonels to give Turkiyye the excuse to invade by treating Cyprus as a province to be "cleansed"-I see from a quick Google there were wannbe einsatzgruppen at work there. The UK definitely fostered the ethnic divisions but the Hellenic Right disgraced themselves as well.

Yes, it was a poop-show. But the reason the West whistles with their hands in their pockets is not that crap-show. Example in point, Taiwan:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chines...ist_atrocities
"From 1946 to 1949, the Nationalists arrested, tortured, and killed political dissidents via the Sino-American Cooperative Organization."
It is no secret that the nationalists were not nice people.
Were the Communists worse? Probably. Was that the reason the West supported the nationalists? Nope.

Did the West whistle with their hands in pockets about the Indonesian New Order in the 70s because it was convenient and they were fighting / genociding communists in East Timor? Yeap.


Does the West implicitly supports Saudi Arabia as they bomb Yemen? Yeap.
Does the West ignore the genocides in a bunch of Africa states right now? Yeap.

So, while I actually think Taiwan is right in this case, the reason the West supports Taiwan (or doesn't sanction Turkey to force them to leave the EU state they occupy) has little to do with right and wrong.

Make no mistake: If Taiwan votes a Pro-China government, that maneuvers with China better and agrees with a Hong Kong kind of settlement, the West will chill towards Taiwan (and we may well see a coup to remove or destabilize such a government). We don't want Taiwan and China to get by peacefully.
If Turkey gets out of Nato, removes American bases and allies closely with Russia and Iran, giving bases to Iran, you can be sure there will be much more pressure from the West for them to pack their bags.

[alhoon]

Northern Cypriot government was not proclaimed by or run by the Turkish army or immigrants from Turkey. Its done by those that survived Greece's invasion of the island.

And the Chinese government (mainland) was not proclaimed or run by the USSR but by one of the sides of the civil war, that actually broke their ties with USSR. The Taiwanese government was the ones that lost the war and retreated to Taiwan to consolidate what they still held.
And yet, the West would very much like if the government of Taiwan was the one that won against Mao in the civil war.

Your point?