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Thread: Decision: Elected Moderators

  1. #41
    z3n's Avatar State of Mind
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    Tbh a Tribune would be overqualified, in fact I cant remember a Tribune who wasnt a former hex or moderator. Normally the Tribunes have served for years in a moderation position.

    It's a bit like how overqualified Gig is for magistrate.
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  2. #42
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    Aka the qualifications will include members that have a habit of trolling, disingenuous posting and otherwise intentionally skirting at the edge of the rules without attracting punitive moderation action.** Combine that with curial voting that has proven to be based on popularity rather then the criteria of the pollwhen it comes to these issues and it's unsurprising that objections are raised when it comes to appointing members to positions that are supposed to enforce the rules and will be given the ability to substantially edit other member's contributions.
    "it has been proven to be based on popularity"

    Citation needed.

    Anyway, if such a candidate were to apply I do not foresee the Curia electing them. We do have elections for a reason, you know. Honestly this just reeks pointless fearmongering to me. When was the last time a user with such dubious qualifications even applied for any office?

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  3. #43
    Gigantus's Avatar I don't get worked up over people anymore: they get a post-it with 'ridiculous' on their forehead and that's it.
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    I will have to rephrase as the comment I had in mind was not made in a public area of TWC: Combine that with curial voting that has proven to be based mostly on anything other then the criteria of the poll when it comes to these issues...

    Citation - comments from members confirming that their decision was not based on facts presented . Last ostrakon.
    "I'm still going to vote no on the ostrakhon on the simple grounds that the Armenian genocide is drawn into this"
    "But as it stands I cannot abide the use of ostrakons to settle accounts between users who just can't get along"
    "the issue is that the moment I decide to kick him out because of his poor standards I'd have to immediately support a number of other ostraka"
    A summary: "I find it absurd we are several days into this discussion and its mostly been about this process and not about Ponti himself."
    Another summary, more eloquent
    "On my part I would have voted yes if a. I did not know it was you or b. you did not have an active feud with him that I know of"
    The lonely comment that actually refers the facts presented: "The argument made in the OP did not make a strong case that his posts are especially vile."

    Yup, foreseeing stuff (how?) and counting on it that it won't happen is the other side of that coin. Based on similar kind of experience most likely - just not when it comes to cases where behavior and attitude are at the core.
    Last edited by Gigantus; October 24, 2021 at 04:59 PM.




  4. #44

    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Baltar View Post
    I have updated the OP with proposed language for the Decision.
    Support.



  5. #45
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    Re-support.

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  6. #46
    Gigantus's Avatar I don't get worked up over people anymore: they get a post-it with 'ridiculous' on their forehead and that's it.
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    Re-opposed.




  7. #47
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    Opposed. For Moderation especially I'd rather trust the meritocratic process used by Hex than the admittedly more democratic process of a Curia vote.

    I just don't see how this'll result in anything useful - There is nothing stopping a potential eligible candidate in the criteria listed here from applying to join the moderation team. If they aren't accepted or given a shot through those means, why would the administration allow them through after a Curial election?
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  8. #48
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    What Athelstan said.

    Also, I foresee this: Candidates will either be snatched away by Moderation to their regular recruiting process if they are suitable, or will simply be ignored after election - on which occasion all who already cry "power abuse" on every possible and impossible turn will just use it for another round of Drama(TM).

    So the only thing this proposal will add is drama with no positive effects on moderation or its accountability.

    Addendum: I don't know whether anyone has considered it yet, but the selection process for Moderation does necessarily include discussion of character, as temper, levelheadedness and the way one interacts with people are crucial points in being a Moderator. As such any meaningful discussion of the candidates in the Curia would be ripe with personal references of such fundamental nature that they'd easily fall off the ToS-brink, even in the Admin fora.
    Last edited by Iskar; October 25, 2021 at 03:57 AM.
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  9. #49
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    Well then, all I can do at this stage is to oppose this.
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  10. #50
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    The from a conceptual standpoint this isn't a bad idea. The Curia cold provide a first step in the vetting process.
    Citizens interested in being a moderator could put their name forward. The Curia than can vote to determine if the person is "qualified."
    The approved citizen then be put in a pool and the Moderation Overseer then can start phase 2 of the vetting process.

    The admin/ moderators could weigh in on the discussion and their opinion would probably have an impact on the vote. If not, phase 2 would certainly eliminate any applicant "voted in" based on "popularity."
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  11. #51
    Gigantus's Avatar I don't get worked up over people anymore: they get a post-it with 'ridiculous' on their forehead and that's it.
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    Ok, so the curia votes whether a member is 'qualified'. And then moderation takes over and apply their own vetting process (from scratch obviously) of which the 'qualification' that is being voted on here is a mere fraction of the effort going into it's own (see Iskar's addendum) vetting process. And in the end it will still be be moderation's decision whether to accept or reject the candidate, eg phase 2 that you refer to.

    You do know that members do not have to wait until a vote takes place to apply to moderation? Which then will start their vetting process right away. Other then highlighting who will not pass the vetting process and causing all sorts of contention I do not see anything achieved by this process. Same contention as described in above mentioned addendum.
    Last edited by Gigantus; October 25, 2021 at 06:48 AM.




  12. #52
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantus View Post
    Ok, so the curia votes whether a member is 'qualified'. And then moderation takes over and apply their own vetting process (from scratch obviously) of which the 'qualification' that is being voted on here is a mere fraction of the effort going into it's own (see Iskar's addendum) vetting process. And in the end it will still be be moderation's decision whether to accept or reject the candidate, eg phase 2 that you refer to.

    You do know that members do not have to wait until a vote takes place to apply to moderation? Which then will start their vetting process right away. Other then highlighting who will not pass the vetting process and causing all sorts of contention I do not see anything achieved by this process. Same contention as described in above mentioned addendum.
    If the passes, they can be rejected per Constitution.

    No, what I suggested would be the "new application" process. So no direct application.

    Seriously, nothing is being achieved but to add some importance to the citizenship but in vetting and in choice to apply. We have to have more valuable use of our times than voting for elected officials and voting the next recipient of the Legio 501 award.
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  13. #53
    Gigantus's Avatar I don't get worked up over people anymore: they get a post-it with 'ridiculous' on their forehead and that's it.
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    I have my doubt dealing with the fall out from the rejection of a publicly vetted and voted for candidate that gets rejected will improve anything other then the circus rating. Reasoning will be demanded and the rest has been mentioned already. I really wish you'd read the addendum I linked to.




  14. #54

    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    This will be a train wreck lol. And Tango and Abdul will commit seppuku. No point in losing the current few volunteers we have in moderation. No one will deal with the drama I think.

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantus View Post
    I have my doubt dealing with the fall out from the rejection of a publicly vetted and voted for candidate that gets rejected will improve anything other then the circus rating. Reasoning will be demanded and the rest has been mentioned already. I really wish you'd read the addendum I linked to.
    You are sort of making a mountain out of a mole hill. I said originally, that I am not fond of an election process. You can read it here.
    What I offered was a palatable alternative as imperfect as it is. To be frank, any real meaningful action of the Curia cannot be done until it can sort out its own standard of conduct issues. When Citizenship is more about good postings and being exemplary members and they can police itself of those standards, then it can honestly "vet" members.

    ps... I read the "addendum" when I read through the thread.

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  16. #56
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    Quote Originally Posted by King Athelstan View Post
    Opposed. For Moderation especially I'd rather trust the meritocratic process used by Hex than the admittedly more democratic process of a Curia vote.

    I just don't see how this'll result in anything useful - There is nothing stopping a potential eligible candidate in the criteria listed here from applying to join the moderation team. If they aren't accepted or given a shot through those means, why would the administration allow them through after a Curial election?
    ^^ This. Opposed.
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  17. #57
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    Opposed for all the reason Iskar has already layed out.


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  18. #58
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    I'm going to give the third required procedural support so a vote can be requested and we can see stark numbers on the subject.
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  19. #59
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    Ready to go to vote then.



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  20. #60
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    Moved to vote.

    Vote here.

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