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Thread: Decision: Elected Moderators

  1. #1
    Gaius Baltar's Avatar Roma in aeternum
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    Default Decision: Elected Moderators

    It the distant past moderators were voted on by the citizenry. Perhaps it is time to restore this practice and reserve several moderator slots for election.

    Election process: Would follow that of other Curia elected officials.

    Eligibility: Clean moderation record, perhaps a limit on historical interactions as well.

    Term: I think 6 months would be a good start.


    This is just a rough idea and I am looking at the Constitution to see where it would fit.

    ============================================================== (Update Below)

    Author:
    Gaius Baltar
    Support: Akar, Cope, Dismounted Feudal Knight

    The Consul will post an thread for qualified citizens to respond. A debate thread will be added so that these volunteers can be questioned by the citizenry and staff as to their motives and qualifications for moderation positions. After 5 days a poll will be created. The top two vote-receiving applicants will then have their names advanced by Consul to the Head of Moderation for consideration as moderators.

    Qualifications: Citizens who have previously served as Curial officers, Magistrates or Tribunes.
    Last edited by Gaius Baltar; November 05, 2021 at 05:14 PM. Reason: Add information



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  2. #2
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    Strong support.

    Clean moderation record
    How is this defined?

    No active infractions? No infractions ever? No notes ever?

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  3. #3
    Dismounted Feudal Knight's Avatar ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    Yeah, good luck with that.
    pesky twc socialite, wandering 'knight' and dreamer

  4. #4

    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    This is not going to happen. Moderation dislikes public criticism of any kind, so something like this would only subject them to more & create unnecessary drama.
    Most importantly we don't need more moderators considering active membership is low and majority of them are not violators of ToS. So extra manpower is not required imo.

    What curia can do is look for a person\citizen that has knowledge of PHP & CSS and has experience on how to maintain vbulletin. Then we can plan some forum maintenance and graphical overhaul this website desperately needs. Current moderation is fine.

  5. #5
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Baltar View Post
    It the distant past moderators were voted on by the citizenry. Perhaps it is time to restore this practice and reserve several moderator slots for election.

    Election process: Would follow that of other Curia elected officials.

    Eligibility: Clean moderation record, perhaps a limit on historical interactions as well.

    Term: I think 6 months would be a good start.


    This is just a rough idea and I am looking at the Constitution to see where it would fit.
    Candidate moderators that were voted on in the past were picked by the administration. It cannot be any different. The administration has a duty to discharge any moderator they deem unfit for the job. That gives them a de-facto veto on any candidate. In the end, the Curia would only have a choice if the administration has multiple candidates and don't feel like making a choice themselves. In all other cases, an election would just be a farcical rubber-stamping of the administration's pick.
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

  6. #6
    Gigantus's Avatar I don't get worked up over people anymore: they get a post-it with 'ridiculous' on their forehead and that's it.
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    Yup, what Ishan said and a gaggle of other reasons. Opposed.

    I do wonder who is going to bother teaching the newbies the ropes and supervising them if they are only around for 6 months? By the time they could be trusted to moderate a forum section on their own without having to be looked over the shoulder they'll be gone again.




  7. #7
    Flinn's Avatar His Dudeness of TWC
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    lol, next one please

    edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Muizer View Post
    Candidate moderators that were voted on in the past were picked by the administration. It cannot be any different. The administration has a duty to discharge any moderator they deem unfit for the job. That gives them a de-facto veto on any candidate. In the end, the Curia would only have a choice if the administration has multiple candidates and don't feel like making a choice themselves. In all other cases, an election would just be a farcical rubber-stamping of the administration's pick.
    this, really
    Last edited by Flinn; October 22, 2021 at 05:42 AM.
    Under the patronage of Finlander, patron of Lugotorix & Lifthrasir & joerock22 & Socrates1984 & Kilo11 & Vladyvid & Dick Cheney & phazer & Jake Armitage & webba 84 of the Imperial House of Hader

  8. #8
    Morticia Iunia Bruti's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    After the last Ostrakismos debacle i don't think its a good idea to choose moderators by popularity vote.

    Opposed.
    Being like you are
    Well this is something else, who would comprehend?
    But some that do, lay claim Divine purpose blesses them
    That's not what I believe, and it doesn't matter anyway
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  9. #9
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    Moderation dislikes public criticism of any kind
    Yeah, dictators and autocrats have always hated having their power questioned publicly. Why is a fear of public criticism anything but a reason to suspect foul play and bad intentions? If their actions are so just and fair, then surely there should be no issues discussing their totally fair and just decisions, right?

    What curia can do is look for a person\citizen that has knowledge of PHP & CSS and has experience on how to maintain vbulletin.
    How about the owner of the site do something? If the Curia is going to be in charge of maintaining the entire forum infrastructure it should have vastly more say in how things are ran.

    You're welcome to learn PHP & CSS and put your money where your mouth is and step up.

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  10. #10

    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    I nominate Sir Adrian for Moderator.



  11. #11
    Dismounted Feudal Knight's Avatar ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    Open and shut case, but I'll address the tangent suggested above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ishan View Post
    What curia can do is look for a person\citizen that has knowledge of PHP & CSS and has experience on how to maintain vbulletin. Then we can plan some forum maintenance and graphical overhaul this website desperately needs. Current moderation is fine.
    Same issue why this proposal doesn't work really. Any member is free to find the mythical maintainer for a steeply declining software who'd actually want to spend time here, but said maintainer then must contend with an absent technical administration and no directional plans to take these maintenance duties. We can plan all we like, someone with jurisdiction actually has to take reins as well as express interest in this being worth the time. An aimless goal to 'do better' will work as it ever did. It's not that we don't need the technical involvement, it's that the technical problem is compounded at a leadership level in a way the Curia cannot practically influence as an entity.
    pesky twc socialite, wandering 'knight' and dreamer

  12. #12
    Abdülmecid I's Avatar ¡Ay Carmela!
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    The moderation doesn't dislike public criticism. If it did, there would be no Tribunal and commentary threads. Anyway, the proposal cannot be implemented. Besides the practical concerns already described by Gigantus, as Muizer mentioned, all members of the staff, including the moderation branch, need to be approved by the administration, of which the Curia is no more part.

  13. #13
    Flinn's Avatar His Dudeness of TWC
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    Yes I too believe this proposal to be invalid, but I've been told that it's not so
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  14. #14
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    The moderation doesn't dislike public criticism. If it did, there would be no Tribunal and commentary threads. Anyway, the proposal cannot be implemented. Besides the practical concerns already described by Gigantus, as Muizer mentioned, all members of the staff, including the moderation branch, need to be approved by the administration, of which the Curia is no more part.
    Your refusal to implement a proposal does not constitute it's inability to be implemented.

    Should I take your post to mean that you are exercising your Hex veto?

    but I've been told that it's not so
    ?

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  15. #15
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    Moderators were ratified not elected. Big difference.

  16. #16
    Gaius Baltar's Avatar Roma in aeternum
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    How is this defined?

    No active infractions? No infractions ever? No notes ever?
    How about no active infractions and none for the past calendar year. Of course that part is subject to some debate as well.

    This is not going to happen. Moderation dislikes public criticism of any kind, so something like this would only subject them to more & create unnecessary drama.
    Most importantly we don't need more moderators considering active membership is low and majority of them are not violators of ToS. So extra manpower is not required imo.
    Active involvement in moderation would most likely increase participation and interest. And as pointed out in another reply, the presence of the Tribunal system demonstrates that moderation is interested in feedback.

    Candidate moderators that were voted on in the past were picked by the administration. It cannot be any different.
    In the distant past moderators were actively recruited from the membership. Applications were encouraged and in some cases members were actively recruited for the position when there was a need for extra keyboards. I myself was recruited in this manner.

    I do wonder who is going to bother teaching the newbies the ropes and supervising them if they are only around for 6 months? By the time they could be trusted to moderate a forum section on their own without having to be looked over the shoulder they'll be gone again.
    In actuality moderation is not nearly as complex as advertised. The vast majority of is spent dealing with spam and bots. Only in a select number of forums, like the Mudpit, does the job become more complicated. The learning curve will be accommodating to the software and learning the communication roles of the staff. Most, if not all the current membership is well qualified to perform these tasks.



    Pillaging and Plundering since 2006

    Neither is this the dawn from the east, nor is a dragon flying above, nor are the gables of this hall aflame. Nay, mortal enemies approach in ready armour. Ravens are calling, wolves are howling, spear clashes and shield answers


  17. #17

    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Baltar View Post
    In actuality moderation is not nearly as complex as advertised. The vast majority of is spent dealing with spam and bots. Only in a select number of forums, like the Mudpit, does the job become more complicated. The learning curve will be accommodating to the software and learning the communication roles of the staff. Most, if not all the current membership is well qualified to perform these tasks.
    True. But this will still add some complexities and eventually give headache to Abdul\Tango or whoever is the moderation overseer since any wrongdoing would be their responsibility. Hex hates drama.
    I feel current moderation works okay with checks and balances, so unless we have some compelling reason why current system isn't working I don't think Site Admins will be too keen to implement this.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    Quote Originally Posted by Muizer View Post
    Candidate moderators that were voted on in the past were picked by the administration. It cannot be any different. The administration has a duty to discharge any moderator they deem unfit for the job. That gives them a de-facto veto on any candidate. In the end, the Curia would only have a choice if the administration has multiple candidates and don't feel like making a choice themselves. In all other cases, an election would just be a farcical rubber-stamping of the administration's pick.
    As per S2.A2., Hex already has an explicit veto on any candidate for elected positions.



  19. #19
    Flinn's Avatar His Dudeness of TWC
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    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    ?
    my bad, I've been told that this is a valid proposal, precisely

    Of course me and many others don't think it is so, for obvious reasons. There's no need for the Hex to exercise a veto IMO, as it is pretty obvious that deciding who's going to become a site Moderator, like with any other Staff role, it's exclusive jurisdiction of the site administration, AKA HEX. This proposal goes beyond the remit of the Curia, therefore is invalid and the Consul should be calling it so and closing and archiving this.

    Pretty straight I guess, nothing much to add unless one wants to beat a dead horse.
    Last edited by Flinn; October 22, 2021 at 10:48 AM.
    Under the patronage of Finlander, patron of Lugotorix & Lifthrasir & joerock22 & Socrates1984 & Kilo11 & Vladyvid & Dick Cheney & phazer & Jake Armitage & webba 84 of the Imperial House of Hader

  20. #20

    Default Re: Decision: Elected Moderators

    Quote Originally Posted by Flinn View Post
    my bad, I've been told that this is a valid proposal, precisely

    Of course me and many others don't think it is so, for obvious reasons. There's no need for the Hex to exercise a veto IMO, as it is pretty obvious that deciding who's going to become a site Moderator, like with any other Staff role, it's exclusive jurisdiction of the site administration, AKA HEX. This proposal goes beyond the remit of the Curia, therefore is invalid and the Consul should be calling it so and closing and archiving this.

    Pretty straight I guess, nothing much to add unless one wants to beat a dead horse.
    Explain why its valid for the Curia to provide Moderation oversight via elected Magistrates but invalid for it to have limited influence within Moderation itself.



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