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Thread: Changes in award giving process.

  1. #1
    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Changes in award giving process.

    I have read the requirements that someone needs to have to be proposed by an OTHER CITIZEN inorder to have it.
    The requirements seam fine but the real issue in the PROPOSAL ITS SELF.
    I explain. Lets suppose that we have an X modder that creates a mod that benefits many other mods by its result, also the same modder creates a full mod , a couple of tutorials and he is active in the workshop sharing his knowlege to help new modders. The same modder might help other mods as historical researcher too.
    Now lets supose that we have a modder that creates 10-20 models in a submod.
    Both worth some uknowlegment for their effort.
    What RUISN THE process is that the Z modder might have some one to propose him for an award and the X modder might not.
    Where is the fairness in both modders contribution to the modding community?
    My sugestion is to change the way awards that given in the Curia to modders. The Curia must create a commite to constantly check the modders work and their overall contribution to the modding community and by the extend of those the proper award willbe given. Otherwise many modders see that awards go only to those that have "friends" in high ranks and admire their work and IGNORE the rest of the modders . Eventually this will discourage modders to create new material if they wont have "friends" in the Curia....TWC is in a crusial crossroad and discuraging modders simply makes its death come sooner!
    If the administrators wont agree with my change atleast they must publish an Announcement on all sections saying "If you are a modder and vreate anything be sure that you have someone to rpopose you for an award no matter if you worth it or not"!
    FORGET ABOUT ME. Look the rest of modders that see in my case them selves. Be fair for once in your fiction (internet) life.
    That says AnthoniusII
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    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Changes in award giving process.

    I have read the requirements that someone needs to have to be proposed by an OTHER CITIZEN inorder to have it.
    Your interpretation of the Constitution is incorrect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Article 3
    Any member can propose a resolution for discussion by posting a thread in the Prothalamos.7

    Resolutions can be Amendments, making changes to this document8; Decisions, suggesting changes to the site; Nominations, proposing a member for a Curial award; or Votes of No Confidence (VoNC) against Curial Officers or Staff Members. A VoNC may only be initiated for neglect of duty or abuse of authority10 and, if successful against a Curial Officer, results in their immediate removal from office.11
    So now that the entire basis of your argument is moot, do you want this thread archived?

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    Araval's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Changes in award giving process.

    You don't have to be a citizen to nominate someone, so please go ahead and nominate people with your reasoning!

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    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: Changes in award giving process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    Your interpretation of the Constitution is incorrect.



    So now that the entire basis of your argument is moot, do you want this thread archived?
    You do not answer to the core of the issue and you try to turn it elsewhere. Archived a thread that you do not personaly agree is your answer to the delima above?

    Quote Originally Posted by Araval View Post
    You don't have to be a citizen to nominate someone, so please go ahead and nominate people with your reasoning!
    But that IS THE DELIMA of my proposal. WHY someone HAS TO NOMINATE someone else ? Why TWC its self by its standards will automativcally give the propeer awards to those that deserve them?
    Why someone has to have a "pimp" to nominate him when others with much more contribution fell to oblivion?
    Last edited by AnthoniusII; October 09, 2021 at 12:55 PM.
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    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Changes in award giving process.

    You do not answer to the core of the issue and you try to turn it elsewhere.
    The crux of your argument is this

    I have read the requirements that someone needs to have to be proposed by an OTHER CITIZEN inorder to have it.
    Which is patently false. Which 'core' of the issue remains unaddressed?

    But that IS THE DELIMA of my proposal. WHY someone HAS TO NOMINATE someone else ?
    Because that is how the system works.

    Why TWC its self by its standards will automativcally give the propeer awards to those that deserve them?
    Because the answer to "who deserves an award" is a subjective rather than objective one. There are awards that are automatically given based off a specific criteria, but those awards are not Curial awards (by their very definition).

    Why someone has to have a "pimp"
    I would support an amendment changing "Patron and Client" to "Pimp and Hoe"

    when others with much more contribution fell to oblivion?
    Is the only objective behind creating a mod recognition and awards? Do you consider any modder who didn't receive awards for their work to have fallen to oblivion?

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    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: Changes in award giving process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    The crux of your argument is this



    Which is patently false. Which 'core' of the issue remains unaddressed?



    Because that is how the system works.



    Because the answer to "who deserves an award" is a subjective rather than objective one. There are awards that are automatically given based off a specific criteria, but those awards are not Curial awards (by their very definition).



    I would support an amendment changing "Patron and Client" to "Pimp and Hoe"



    Is the only objective behind creating a mod recognition and awards? Do you consider any modder who didn't receive awards for their work to have fallen to oblivion?
    I have a couple on mind...
    The Rusichi team and me...
    Lets take my example:
    14 years as researcher to more than 4 mods.
    Creator of CBUR Project that used by more than 30 mods (despite the fact that they copy CBUR work from Stainles Steel and give false credits).
    Creator of 2 Tutorials.
    Creator of a mod.
    Sharing modding material with other mods to develope and release.
    Constnt counsil in workshop where i have some knowlege to new modders.
    AT LEAST ONE of the awarded members use material made for TGC mod and given to Broken Cresent by permision ONLY for Broken Cresent usage but he used it never the less and awarded.
    If someone did all these above and his name was NOT AnthoniusII that you try to get rid of him systimaticaly the last couple of years would he get the Opifex award YES OR KNOW (REMEMBER I ALSO READ the requirements for Opifex).
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    Default Re: Changes in award giving process.

    Are you going to respond to any of the points I raised?

    Is this threads sole purpose to complain that you haven't received any awards?

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    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: Changes in award giving process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    Are you going to respond to any of the points I raised?

    Is this threads sole purpose to complain that you haven't received any awards?
    I do not wish your AWARDS. I was an Artifex and left the ranks to protest about this unfair situation you PRETENT you do not see.
    After me there will be other modders. The question YOU HAVE TO ANSWER is simple: Will they have to beg for awards they will deserve anyway like whores to their pimps or the TWC site will reward them because they deserve to be rewarded.
    CAN YOU ANSWER THIS SIMPLE QUESTION and stop playing the fool of the case?
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    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: Changes in award giving process.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    I have read the requirements that someone needs to have to be proposed by an OTHER CITIZEN inorder to have it.
    The requirements seam fine but the real issue in the PROPOSAL ITS SELF.
    I explain. Lets suppose that we have an X modder that creates a mod that benefits many other mods by its result, also the same modder creates a full mod , a couple of tutorials and he is active in the workshop sharing his knowlege to help new modders. The same modder might help other mods as historical researcher too.
    Now lets supose that we have a modder that creates 10-20 models in a submod.
    Both worth some uknowlegment for their effort.
    What RUISN THE process is that the Z modder might have some one to propose him for an award and the X modder might not.
    Where is the fairness in both modders contribution to the modding community?
    My sugestion is to change the way awards that given in the Curia to modders. The Curia must create a commite to constantly check the modders work and their overall contribution to the modding community and by the extend of those the proper award willbe given. Otherwise many modders see that awards go only to those that have "friends" in high ranks and admire their work and IGNORE the rest of the modders . Eventually this will discourage modders to create new material if they wont have "friends" in the Curia....TWC is in a crusial crossroad and discuraging modders simply makes its death come sooner!
    If the administrators wont agree with my change atleast they must publish an Announcement on all sections saying "If you are a modder and vreate anything be sure that you have someone to rpopose you for an award no matter if you worth it or not"!
    FORGET ABOUT ME. Look the rest of modders that see in my case them selves. Be fair for once in your fiction (internet) life.
    That says AnthoniusII

    You don't need to be a citizen to make proposals in the Prothalamos, that includes awards. You only need to a citizen to propose people for Artifex/Citizen/Civitate. If you know of anybody who should get the award, feel free to post here.
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    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Δομέστικοc
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    Default Re: Changes in award giving process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Adrian View Post
    You don't need to be a citizen to make proposals in the Prothalamos, that includes awards. You only need to a citizen to propose people for Artifex/Citizen/Civitate. If you know of anybody who should get the award, feel free to post here.
    I know that my Emglish are bad but not that bad to not understand what I am asking TO CHANGE.
    I ask to errase the requirement that someone HAS to propose another one for a reward.
    AN EXAMPLE of many. Z3n proposes Muizer for Opifex.
    Why Muizer has to be proposed by another person and does not take the Opifex award simply by his work if his work forfeels the Opifex's requirements?
    That IS WHAT I WANT TO CHANGE. A modder must be awarded for his work BY HIS work and not because a person liked his work and proposed him.
    Muizer deserves the award but what about all the rest "Muizers" that have NONE to propose them despite the fact that they do a perfect work and deserve the award?
    I repeat I DO NOT WISH an award but if you read CAREFULLY the Opifex's requirements I should be one atleast a year ago! I use my self only as example. Do we have an understanding now?
    AN OTHER EXAMPLE:
    z3n proposes Kostic for an award (Gold).
    I doupt that most that agreed saw my objection a couple of posts in his work shop when he used without permision TGC material and material that TGC gave to broken Cresent (Koultouras) for use ONLY by Broken Cresent!
    Kostic became a good modder , even me i adviced him how to proceed .... But in both cases someone promoted them. Modders like me are in the twilight of the modding community only to plunder our work without recognition!
    Last edited by AnthoniusII; October 09, 2021 at 02:43 PM.
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    Default Re: Changes in award giving process.

    If someone did all these above and his name was NOT AnthoniusII that you try to get rid of him systimaticaly the last couple of years would he get the Opifex award YES OR KNOW (REMEMBER I ALSO READ the requirements for Opifex).
    If someone meets those requirements you personally are empowered to propose them for an award. You are part of the very problem you rail against. What is stopping you from recognizing and proposing all of these modders (that you allege are being ignored) for awards?

    I ask to errase the requirement that someone HAS to propose another one for a reward.
    And replace it with what? Through what method do you propose awards are distributed? The requirements for these awards are subjective not objective, which means there is no criteria against which to judge them, hence why we rely on the input and opinion of the Curia to distribute these awards.

    Why Muizer has to be proposed by another person
    Because that's how it works.

    That IS WHAT I WANT TO CHANGE. A modder must be awarded for his work BY HIS work
    Once again, art is subjective. It is impossible to create a subjective standard by which to judge it.

    I doupt that most that agreed saw my objection a couple of posts in his work shop when he used without permision TGC material and material that TGC gave to broken Cresent (Koultouras) for use ONLY by Broken Cresent!
    There was nothing stopping you from raising those allegations in his nomination thread.

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    z3n's Avatar State of Mind
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    Default Re: Changes in award giving process.

    That IS WHAT I WANT TO CHANGE. A modder must be awarded for his work BY HIS work and not because a person liked his work and proposed him.
    So how do you propose the modder gets noticed and awarded? I don't think it's possible unless other people propose them. For example, my team member and someone I greatly respect; gustave was the EB & EBII texture creator for units, he hand painted over 750 units and he doesn't have a single award. I was planning on proposing him for Opifex and legio gold but I still have to do that.
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    Default Re: Changes in award giving process.

    Quote Originally Posted by z3n View Post
    So how do you propose the modder gets noticed and awarded? I don't think it's possible unless other people propose them. For example, my team member and someone I greatly respect; gustave was the EB & EBII texture creator for units, he hand painted over 750 units and he doesn't have a single award. I was planning on proposing him for Opifex and legio gold but I still have to do that.
    DID you bothered to read my OP? I wrote that the Curia must create a team that evaluate each modder's work , his contribution to modding community etc and give the proper award. No proposals no interaction between the modder and the evaluation team that would raise suspicius about the integridy of the proposer. When you proposed Kostic did you bother to see my response to him few posts below that forced me to change my signature for several months "TGC material to avoid misunderstandings". Did you see that post ? Not only the horses that Kostic removed but also much of the material becomes from TGC that was given for bROKEN cRESENT USE only BY Koultouras (the curved shiled with the whire bluew patern and the 3d meal boss is my creation).
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    Default Re: Changes in award giving process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    If someone meets those requirements you personally are empowered to propose them for an award. You are part of the very problem you rail against. What is stopping you from recognizing and proposing all of these modders (that you allege are being ignored) for awards?



    And replace it with what? Through what method do you propose awards are distributed? The requirements for these awards are subjective not objective, which means there is no criteria against which to judge them, hence why we rely on the input and opinion of the Curia to distribute these awards.



    Because that's how it works.



    Once again, art is subjective. It is impossible to create a subjective standard by which to judge it.


    There was nothing stopping you from raising those allegations in his nomination thread.
    Do you understand ENGLISH OR MY BAD ENGLISH ARE BETTER than yours? That is what i want to change.
    Law exists untill another law replaces it. I could not write my opinion because in your threads only citizens and other with titles can write.
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    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: Changes in award giving process.

    But how will this team know which modder is working on what, to be able to evaluate it? Also, isn't that a lot like proposing? A member of the team finds a modder, he proposes the modder to the team and the team evaluates his work.
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  16. #16
    z3n's Avatar State of Mind
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    Default Re: Changes in award giving process.

    Well how do you expect the committee to notice every single modder and evaluate them, there must be thousands of modders on TWC throughout its history. For a team like CDeC or however it was spelt, there were what, 5 people in the past? That is too small of a number to do such a large job, it's better to leave it to everybody or just have the committee be able to approve and vote.

    I'm not dismissing the idea outright but I really fail to see how such a large community can have everyone noticed and proposed in a better way than right now.

    edit:
    Also gustave, alin, nazgool, jrmc all created units for EB and EBII. None of them have a single award. CDeC from 2008ish-2015 (the awards committee which is basically what you're proposing), never awarded them anything because its impossible to notice every single modder and award them.

    There's other people who contributed a lot and don't have awards either. I believe only QuintusSertorius has an award, and that's only because I proposed him. I wouldn't have been able to do that unless award proposals were open to everybody.
    Last edited by z3n; October 09, 2021 at 03:33 PM.
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    Default Re: Changes in award giving process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Adrian View Post
    But how will this team know which modder is working on what, to be able to evaluate it? Also, isn't that a lot like proposing? A member of the team finds a modder, he proposes the modder to the team and the team evaluates his work.

    Read my posts above.
    You wrote"
    A member of the team finds a modder, he proposes the modder to the team and the team evaluates his work
    Dies this member also seaks violations of ilegal use of other modders material? Does the team that evaluates that proposal do that action?
    NO i saw all the proposals and all stay in the proposer's proposal BLINDLY! BUT a team that searches the mods, the tutorials, the contribution to modding be sources (see Paleologos resources) wont need a proposer. Otherwise WHY i lesft without the Opifex award with CBUR PROJECT that more than 30-40 mods use its material and fase they think its SS mod's one? See CBUR porjects permision page that stoped years ago and count the mods that recieved our material.
    I created a mod.
    2 Tutorials
    I help new modders with advices and model fixes in the workshop...WAIT...I THINK i describe the requirements for OPIFEX....But none cared. Only those that needed quality work and were in hurry for the 1st TGC release to plunder its work. And the famous moderators that are numerous none saw my work. How many like me have been missed from the moderators eyes to propose ?
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    Default Re: Changes in award giving process.

    Quote Originally Posted by z3n View Post
    Well how do you expect the committee to notice every single modder and evaluate them, there must be thousands of modders on TWC throughout its history. For a team like CDeC or however it was spelt, there were what, 5 people in the past? That is too small of a number to do such a large job, it's better to leave it to everybody or just have the committee be able to approve and vote.

    I'm not dismissing the idea outright but I really fail to see how such a large community can have everyone noticed and proposed in a better way than right now.

    edit:
    Also gustave, alin, nazgool, jrmc all created units for EB and EBII. None of them have a single award. CDeC from 2008ish-2015 (the awards committee which is basically what you're proposing), never awarded them anything because its impossible to notice every single modder and award them.

    There's other people who contributed a lot and don't have awards either. I believe only QuintusSertorius has an award, and that's only because I proposed him. I wouldn't have been able to do that unless award proposals were open to everybody.
    Years ago when i was still an Artifex I proposed teh Rusichi team for awards. The answer i recieved was "they are inactive"...Those "inactive" members though gave their material to hundreds of mods including TATW that because of their material won so many awards! Is that fair for the Rusichi team? Unless i would recieve an award for my contribution in TWC in 14 years every day presense after death or someone would deny it because as dead i would be inactive!
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    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: Changes in award giving process.

    If you can't maintain a civil tone and not insult others, this thread will be locked until you can. While personal references are allowed to a certain extent, insults and demeaning statements are not allowed.

    I could not write my opinion because in your threads only citizens and other with titles can write.
    You are writing your opinions right now. Your claims are demonstrably false. If you do not intend to propose any changes, what is the purpose of this thread? The Porthalamos is not a place for complaining.

    What specifically are you proposing?

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  20. #20
    z3n's Avatar State of Mind
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    Default Re: Changes in award giving process.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    Years ago when i was still an Artifex I proposed teh Rusichi team for awards. The answer i recieved was "they are inactive"...Those "inactive" members though gave their material to hundreds of mods including TATW that because of their material won so many awards! Is that fair for the Rusichi team? Unless i would recieve an award for my contribution in TWC in 14 years every day presense after death or someone would deny it because as dead i would be inactive!
    Well why didn't you propose me? I wasn't an artifex until about 2017~ and I had released mods from my first few months on TWC in 2011.
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