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Thread: [Amendment] Section III, Article I

  1. #41
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Section III, Article I

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    People ask for an example and when one is provided their first reaction is to immediately look for reasons to denounce the example and the person who provided it. Typical. Moderation would do literally anything to avoid giving up an iota of internet power.
    The example you gave was not a very good example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    ...Since I have joined the moderation staff, nobody has received an infraction for a rule he violated six years ago, with the exception of porn. Also, no infraction has been issued for censor-bypassing in the jokes thread.
    From the ToS
    Obscene Content (1, 3, 6, or 12 points)

    Obscene content is not allowed. This includes, but is not limited to:
    1. Providing images, videos, or verbal descriptions of nudity. This includes, but is not limited to:

    • Any figure whose genitals, pubic hair, buttocks, or (if female) nipples or areolas are exposed, partially or totally; or are not exposed, but it's clear that this is only because of the angle of the shot or incidental intervening objects (e.g., hands, hair, bits of cloth).
    • Visible outlines of genitals or female nipples through clothing.
    • Anything that falls narrowly outside the previous provisions, at the discretion of the moderators.
    • Verbally describing or providing image, video, or audio files that represent or hint at sexual acts. Passing references may be acceptable, but descriptions that are graphic or include any details are not permitted.

    This applies to photographs, drawings, or any other representation of humanoid figures. It may also apply to non-humanoid figures such as animals, at the discretion of the moderators. Nudity may be permitted for serious and non-titillating purposes, such as the exhibition of recognized art or historical models in modifications, at the discretion of the moderators.
    2. Providing images, videos, or verbal descriptions of an unreasonably disgusting nature. This includes, but is not limited to:

    • Excrement and other obscene example of bodily functions.
    • Real-world violence and extreme gore, including executions and the dead or wounded of armed conflict.
    • Extreme virtual or imagined violence.

    Links may not be posted for the purpose of providing obscene content. If a website incidentally includes some reasonably obscene content, it's acceptable to link to it for some other purpose as long as a clear warning is given. Similarly, if content incidentally includes some reasonably obscene content, it's acceptable to include it in a post for some other purpose, as long as a clear warning is given and the reader must actively click a button to view it (e.g., spoiler boxes or YouTube videos).
    Excessively obscene content, particularly porn and extreme gore, is still not allowed to be posted or linked to in any fashion. The distinction between acceptable and excessive obscenity is at the discretion of the moderators. As always, if you are not sure, ask a moderator.
    It is not as though we are talking about signature size violation.

    The bottom line, as a citizen, you should be fully aware of the ToS, how it is enforce and adhere to not only the letter of the law, but its spirit as well. You should never run afoul of it as a citizen. Even if you do have a misstep, you are only temporarily suspended. This is a good "nudge" to have you make good posting that represents the best the site has to offer. This is why we made you a citizen in the first place.
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  2. #42
    Abdülmecid I's Avatar ¡Ay Carmela!
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Section III, Article I

    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    Two infractions for the same thing, 7 years apart, no note for either one.
    My bad, I should have been clearer. The exception is not just porn, but the rule about obscenity, in general, and especially in what concerns (visual or textual) related to sexual activities.

  3. #43
    Gigantus's Avatar I don't get worked up over people anymore: they get a post-it with 'ridiculous' on their forehead and that's it.
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Section III, Article I

    It's been six days since the last comment - go to vote or abandon?




  4. #44
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Section III, Article I

    As far as I can see there are only two supporters (Akar and Lord Thesaurian)

    edit: also, as per usual procedures, if a thread in the Proth isn't posted in within 28 days, it's automatically considered abandoned and moved to the archives
    Last edited by Flinn; October 13, 2021 at 06:31 AM.
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  5. #45
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Section III, Article I

    Support. Reinstating staff referrals would be optimal but this is better than nothing. The current system cannot continue as is.
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  6. #46

    Default Re: [Amendment] Section III, Article I

    Move this to vote.



  7. #47
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Section III, Article I

    Moved to vote.

    Vote here.

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  8. #48

    Default Re: [Amendment] Section III, Article I

    1If a Citizen requests a suspension review, the Consul contacts Moderation and requests details of the relevant infraction. The Consul then opens a suspension review thread, posting the details of the relevant infraction for discussion. After three days, the Consul opens a poll in the Curia vote forum, asking “Shall the Suspension be lifted?” with options “Yes”, “No” and “Abstain”. The suspension will be lifted by a simple majority of non-abstaining votes.
    What will the Consul post exactly? Deleted posts in its entirety?
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  9. #49
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Section III, Article I

    That's a useless question. The tribunal functions exactly the same.
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  10. #50
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Section III, Article I

    No, in Tribunal cases deleted posts and other context is posted to the non-public Judges' Quarters, while the procedure envisioned here would require posting it all in public.
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  11. #51
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Section III, Article I

    That could easily but put in the Politia, as it was when Praefects were Curial moderators rather than the Consul.

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  12. #52
    Gigantus's Avatar I don't get worked up over people anymore: they get a post-it with 'ridiculous' on their forehead and that's it.
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Section III, Article I

    Let me see if I get this straight: you wish to turn the suspension of citizenship into a public circus like the ostrakon but would also like the option of requesting additional, restricted information that is only accessible to the consul and censors at best - because I can't see moderation releasing those to the public. And if the info isn't available for the public opinion forming then what's the sense of requesting\providing it in the first place? Please don't tell me it's to assist the consul to decide if an appeal may go forward, he is perfectly capable to do so without it in the much more serious matter of ostarkon.

    So make up your mind: public circus or secluded process - what's it gonna be? Can't have both.
    Last edited by Gigantus; October 15, 2021 at 10:46 PM.




  13. #53
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Section III, Article I

    et me see if I get this straight: you wish to turn the suspension of citizenship into a public circus
    Is the Tribunal a public circus? Is the Praetorium?

    but would also like the option of requesting additional, restricted information that is only accessible to the consul and censors at best
    Just like it would only be accessible to the Tribunes and Magistrates, yes?

    because I can't see moderation releasing those to the public
    No one has suggested anything like that.

    And if the info isn't available for the public opinion forming then what's the sense of requesting\providing it in the first place
    So if all of the information isn't available to the public then none of it should be? Do you hold the same stance for tribunal proceedings?

    Please don't tell me it's to assist the consul to decide if an appeal may go forward
    I don't believe that is the intent, but even if it was, do you think that having more information to accurately make a decision is a bad thing?

    he is perfectly capable to do so without it in the much more serious matter of ostarkon.
    The more information available to me, the more informed of a decision I can make.

    So make up your mind: public circus or secluded process - what's it gonna be? Can't have both.
    Is this also your position regarding the Tribunal? That it should either be entirely secretive or entirely public?

    You have created a false dichotomy here.
    Last edited by Akar; October 15, 2021 at 11:18 PM.

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  14. #54
    Gigantus's Avatar I don't get worked up over people anymore: they get a post-it with 'ridiculous' on their forehead and that's it.
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Section III, Article I

    We have discussed the difference between a public opinion poll based on subjective perception (see last ostrakon) and the tribunal procedure by appointed members which is an interpretation of the ToS wording - do we have to do it again? What part of this is not a dichotomy?


    The public circus of the tribunal is restricted to it's commentary (the attempt to move it into the tribunal didn't work out very well for the performer the last time), it does not affect the decision making process as it would exclusively here. It does rather highlight what it would look like if the decision was based on a public poll.

    You forgot one zebra stripe - the purpose of restricted info for consul\censors in a public poll. Implied by PoVG's question and Iskar's answer.
    Last edited by Gigantus; October 15, 2021 at 11:59 PM.




  15. #55
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Section III, Article I

    You are forgetting that tribunal proceedings are also subjective opinion based on the individual interpretations. The only difference is in scale. As for the potential circus, I have complete confidence in the Curator and his ability to maintain order.
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  16. #56

    Default Re: [Amendment] Section III, Article I

    Quote Originally Posted by PointOfViewGun View Post
    What will the Consul post exactly? Deleted posts in its entirety?
    The same information as is provided publicly in the Tribunal (i.e. the details/reasoning of the infraction). The Consul would be able to request more context from Moderation if appropriate.
    .



  17. #57

    Default Re: [Amendment] Section III, Article I

    Quote Originally Posted by Cope View Post
    The same information as is provided publicly in the Tribunal (i.e. the details/reasoning of the infraction). The Consul would be able to request more context from Moderation if appropriate.
    .
    That would leave out a lot of information that is normally available to the Tribunal judges. We would not be able to judge a case with 100% of the information normally available for a judge.
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  18. #58
    Sir Adrian's Avatar the Imperishable
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Section III, Article I

    You're not judging an infraction case though. You're judging a suspension case.
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  19. #59
    Akar's Avatar I am not a clever man
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    Default Re: [Amendment] Section III, Article I

    That would leave out a lot of information that is normally available to the Tribunal judges. We would not be able to judge a case with 100% of the information normally available for a judge.
    Which could be put privately in the Politia, just like it was when Praefects were around.

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  20. #60

    Default Re: [Amendment] Section III, Article I

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Adrian View Post
    You're not judging an infraction case though. You're judging a suspension case.
    Which requires even more of the moderation history of the subject which would not be publicly shown for us to look at.


    Quote Originally Posted by Akar View Post
    Which could be put privately in the Politia, just like it was when Praefects were around.
    And we'd, as Citizens, be able to see it? Then it should be put in the wording. Explicitly.
    Last edited by PointOfViewGun; October 16, 2021 at 01:22 PM.
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