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Thread: On the morality of evolution

  1. May 02, 2022, 02:58 PM #241
    conon394
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    The stages of apes to man
    Figured that aside from being a meme it more less a poster child for how not understand evolution since i was in Junior High.

    Haeckel's embryoes
    Almost positive you have no ideal of nuances of the story of his work - rather over a century old. But you being science they were faced criticism from in the field back in the day. And still do and support. They have been often poorly wedged into texts without context or the context of the man himself. And of course they since they do have errors provide some kind weird got you moment for creationists. But since science is not selling a religion but rather a sorta best answer based on what what we know those are always easy to produce. Of course I suppose you what to say physics is wrong because you can find how many text books that still show an electron orbiting around and atom like a planet?
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
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  2. May 03, 2022, 02:23 AM #242
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    conon394,

    Everything ever to be was because God made it so, why? Because He is God. The missing link is God. All creation was made by God and when our time is up it is to that God that each person will have to give an account of why they are what they are in their belief.
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  3. May 03, 2022, 07:09 AM #243
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    conon394,

    Everything ever to be was because God made it so, why? Because He is God. The missing link is God. All creation was made by God and when our time is up it is to that God that each person will have to give an account of why they are what they are in their belief.
    That really is not a response. And I am curious to know your understanding the points you raised in #240.

    Everything ever to be was because God made it so
    Took him a while to get around to adult lactose tolerance than and pretty spotty in implimentation
    Last edited by conon394; May 03, 2022 at 07:26 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
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  4. May 04, 2022, 03:12 AM #244
    basics
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    conon394,

    Well the pictures of apes at various stages of evolution are not provable and Haekle's pictures of embryoes all being similar are complete fabrications made by that man.

    The short answer to your next question is that if man had not fallen there would be no ailments of any sort. The good thing is I believe that God has placed in nature a remedy for most if not all and many have still to be found. Otherwise the greatest remedy of all is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and in time receive a body that never again experiences any ailment.
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  5. May 04, 2022, 06:42 AM #245
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    Well the pictures of apes at various stages of evolution are not provable
    Again the paleontology is a fact.


    Haekle's pictures of embryoes all being similar are complete fabrications made by that man.
    They are not you clearly have a warped understanding of the issue with his drawings.

    The short answer to your next question is that if man had not fallen there would be no ailments of any sort. The good thing is I believe that God has placed in nature a remedy for most if not all and many have still to be found. Otherwise the greatest remedy of all is to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and in time receive a body that never again experiences any ailment.
    That answers what part of my post?
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
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  6. May 05, 2022, 02:30 AM #246
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    conon394,

    So, where's the missing link? No, it was his warped and deceitful drawings that made him look a fool. It answers your remarks about lactose tolerance.
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  7. May 05, 2022, 07:44 AM #247
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    So, where's the missing link?
    I really have no ideal what you imagine in your mind when you sas that. But I already posted various links to various creatures be they hominids or dinosaurs/birds that are clear transitions to modern forms. You will move the goal posts. You simply ignore contrary evidence as I posted in #235

    No, it was his warped and deceitful drawings that made him look a fool
    Err no. No more that the plum pudding model of the atom makes Thomson look like a fool. Again I doubt you have any but the most biased understanding of Haekle's work, or how he used, why he created it and how it was than used out of context and often only it dribs and drapes... did he take some some unfortunate short cuts, did push credibility that is actually still a matter of debate. But you see the cool thing about science is nobody runs around claiming his work was definite final word approved by a deity. He certainly does not look a fool.

    It answers your remarks about lactose tolerance
    No it really answers nothing.

    The point here is lactose tolerance is a very recent genetic mutation. And A highly beneficial on that by large also seems not carry negative baggage. Its evolution in action . Got nothing t be being fallen as Lactose intolerance is not an ailment. Rather its likely just fairly typical in mammals as way to make sure thay stop wanting to breast feed. What cool about lactose tolerance is just how a new selective pressure the potential availability of milk from domesticated animals resulted in a mutation becoming an adaptive trait.
    Last edited by conon394; May 05, 2022 at 08:03 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
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  8. May 06, 2022, 02:28 AM #248
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    conon394,

    And here was me thinking that you must know that each mutation weakens rather than enhances the lineage it belongs to. Look around you and see the state this planet is in for is it not growing weaker by the day?
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  9. May 06, 2022, 07:22 AM #249
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    And here was me thinking that you must know that each mutation weakens rather than enhances the lineage it belongs to. Look around you and see the state this planet is in for is it not growing weaker by the day?
    And here is me forgetting you are willfully ignorant of genetics. Your statement is nonsensical...

    Look around you and see the state this planet is in for is it not growing weaker by the day?
    What does a subjective opinion on the state of the wold have to do with genetics.

    and still just ignoring the evidence in post #235.

    I mean really you don't even bother to move goal posts that insult to those who do . You just la la fingers in ears can;t hear you I have a book/Tradition and it right all the time no mater how often its claims fall short reality and the lots of other people and different ones and are equally magic thinking and belief.
    Last edited by conon394; May 06, 2022 at 01:15 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
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  10. May 07, 2022, 03:06 AM #250
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    conon394,

    I am not an expert on anything but I have read a great deal as well as watching many scientists on youtube regarding the subject so having watched some recently I am quite content by what I saw.

    The state of the world and its occupants has everything to do with genetics because according to your lot we have bur a few years left if we don't do something about all the problems we face.

    There aren't any goalposts to move as the destiny of this planet is already decided, brought about by man's denial of God.
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  11. May 07, 2022, 07:47 AM #251
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    I am not an expert on anything but I have read a great deal as well as watching many scientists on youtube regarding the subject so having watched some recently I am quite content by what I saw.
    Which does not change the statement you made in 248 which implies you tube has not provided you with a good grasp of genetics - "you must know that each mutation weakens rather than enhances the lineage it belongs to" Is demonstrably false.

    The state of the world and its occupants has everything to do with genetics because according to your lot we have bur a few years left if we don't do something about all the problems we face.
    Err now mixing genetics with I think global warming? Man made global warming is bad. Particularity because we are neither do much to stop it or spending enough to adapt our society to it if want that to a reasonably comfortable and to dramatically expensive. It is not the end of days or something, but an environmental shock we are just doing a good job dealing with.
    Last edited by conon394; May 07, 2022 at 09:49 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
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  12. May 08, 2022, 04:44 AM #252
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    conon394,

    From what I've read I have to disagree so please demonstrate why it's false? Well as I said, look around you and tell me where we are doing a good job at anything?
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  13. May 08, 2022, 07:44 AM #253
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    You know you can quote more precisely so I can figure out what you mean. If you mean genetic mutations than I have already answered - the mutation that allow adult lactose tolerance are recent and beneficial. Your statement that mutation is always deleterious is manifestly false. They can be, damaging, or not or beneficial and even that depends on the environment/external selective pressure. Compare cats loosing the ability to taste sweet. Not really harmful or beneficial in and of itself. Although you need some serious linkage analysis to figure if it linked to some more positive mutation or if its just has no carrying cost so is ubiquitous in cats.

    Well as I said, look around you and tell me where we are doing a good job at anything
    I see lots of good, lots of bad but You can realistically find somebody to say at any time.
    Last edited by conon394; May 10, 2022 at 10:15 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
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  14. May 09, 2022, 04:25 AM #254
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    conon394,

    Well, if one looks at the good man has done one only has to see what he has done to the environment, to the animals as well as to man himself. Now if mutations were beneficial where are the benefits amongst the slaughter?
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  15. May 09, 2022, 05:46 AM #255
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    Well, if one looks at the good man has done one only has to see what he has done to the environment, to the animals as well as to man himself
    I'm not sure why we are on this line, you have hubris and confidence in some other life.

    Now if mutations were beneficial where are the benefits amongst the slaughter?
    I pointed out one. A trip to the Safeway will show many more as you enjoy a western diet... Perhaps mutation has got you pinned down with negative connotation in everyday life, try inserting novel variation.
    Last edited by conon394; May 09, 2022 at 12:46 PM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
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  16. May 10, 2022, 04:30 AM #256
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    conon394,

    So you're personal pleasure is enough to convince you that everything in the world is just great? Well the next time you go shopping try to count the numbers of meat canned or packaged from all the poor animals butchered just for you and me.
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  17. May 10, 2022, 10:16 AM #257
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    So you're personal pleasure is enough to convince you that everything in the world is just great?
    I did not say that.

    Well the next time you go shopping try to count the numbers of meat canned or packaged from all the poor animals butchered just for you and me.
    Funny because god does not so why should I?
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
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  18. May 11, 2022, 03:08 AM #258
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    conon394,

    But surely you are aware that that has only happened because Adam and Eve disbelieved and therefore disobeyed God?
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  19. May 13, 2022, 07:01 AM #259
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    conon394,

    But surely you are aware that that has only happened because Adam and Eve disbelieved and therefore disobeyed God?
    Surely I am aware of a made up creation story that match no observable facts. Just as I noticed you have diverted from answering my question why do you think mutations are always deleterious.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  20. May 14, 2022, 01:42 AM #260
    basics
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Surely I am aware of a made up creation story that match no observable facts. Just as I noticed you have diverted from answering my question why do you think mutations are always deleterious.
    conon394,

    The observable facts are all around you and the super genetic strain that you talk of, what did it do for all the fossils? Dead and gone me thinks.
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