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Thread: On the morality of evolution

  1. #81
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    ob 26:10-14 mentions the horizon showing the earth cannot be flat
    No it very much does no such thing.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  2. #82
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    conon394,

    OK, so try these then, Quote, " If you rebel, I will scatter you among the nations but if you return to me, keeping my commands and doing them, even if your exiled people are in the farthest horizon, I will gather them from there and bring them to the place where I have chosen to establish my Name.'

    ISV
    Verse*Concepts
    Job 22:14
    Tools
    Thick clouds cover him so he can't see as he walks back and forth at heaven's horizon.

    ISV
    Verse*Concepts
    Job 26:10
    Tools
    He laid out the horizon on the surface of the watersat the boundary between light and darkness.

    HCSB, NET, AM
    Verse*Concepts
    Psa 19:4
    Tools
    Yet its voice echoes throughout the earth; its words carry to the distant horizon. In the sky he has pitched a tent for the sun.

    NET
    Verse*Concepts
    Psa 19:6
    Tools
    It emerges from the distant horizon, and goes from one end of the sky to the other; nothing can escape its heat.

    NET
    Verse*Concepts
    Psa 103:12
    Tools
    As far as the eastern horizon is from the west, so he removes the guilt of our rebellious actions from us.

    NET
    Verse*Concepts
    Psa 139:9
    Tools
    If I live at the eastern horizonor settle at the western limits,

    HCSB, ISV
    Verse*Concepts
    Prov 8:27
    Tools
    I was there when He established the heavens,when He laid out the horizon on the surface of the ocean,

    HCSB, NET
    Verse*Concepts
    Isa 13:5
    Tools
    They are coming from a far land,from the distant horizon—the Lord and the weapons of His wrath—to destroy the whole country.

    HCSB, ISV, NET
    Verse*Concepts
    Isa 40:22
    Tools
    He is the one who sits on the earth's horizon; its inhabitants are like grasshoppers before him. He is the one who stretches out the sky like a thin curtain, and spreads it out like a pitched tent.

    NET, AM
    Verse*Concepts
    Isa 41:25
    Tools
    I have stirred up one out of the north and he advances, one from the eastern horizon who prays in my name. He steps on rulers as if they were clay, like a potter treading the clay.

    NET
    Verse*Concepts
    Isa 42:10
    Tools
    Sing to the Lord a brand new song! Praise him from the horizon of the earth, you who go down to the sea, and everything that lives in it, you coastlands and those who live there!

    NET
    Verse*Concepts
    Luk 17:24
    Tools
    For as the lightning flashes from horizon to horizon and lights up the sky, so the Son of Man will be in His day.

    HCSB, WNT

    Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/words/Horizon

  3. #83
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    Yes and none of those implies any more than that their is a visual horizon with no actual understanding of it or why it exists that it it moves with you...
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  4. #84
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    conon394,

    Well, if the earth was flat how do you get night and day?

  5. #85
    Derc's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    Ok, so the world may be round, horizon be praised!

    But how can there be oil, diamonds and other fossil resources that take hundreds of thousands or even millions of years to become what they are?
    How can there be fossils of dinosaurs if the world is only 6000 years old? Are they all fake? Questions over questions.

  6. #86
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    conon394,

    Well, if the earth was flat how do you get night and day?
    Well in your version because god wills it after all he can stop the sun in the sky right?
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  7. #87
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Derc View Post
    Ok, so the world may be round, horizon be praised!

    But how can there be oil, diamonds and other fossil resources that take hundreds of thousands or even millions of years to become what they are?
    How can there be fossils of dinosaurs if the world is only 6000 years old? Are they all fake? Questions over questions.
    Derc,

    I believe oil comes by pressure inside the earth whilst diamonds can be made in days as has been demonstrated and fossils can also be quickly formed by pressure too. The same pressure can make coal in a matter of days. The Bible tells of many precious stones and metals being found just not that long after creation. So no, they are not fake at all just that the time it takes to form them didn't need billions of years.

  8. #88
    Tribunus
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    So why does God fake all those fossils? Highly dishonest creator. Also why so much Polytheism in the Bible when he was supposedly the only God from the get go?
    Jatte lambastes Calico Rat

  9. #89
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    So why does God fake all those fossils? Highly dishonest creator. Also why so much Polytheism in the Bible when he was supposedly the only God from the get go?
    Cyclops,

    The fossils aren't fakes, it is just man's understanding of them that is wrong. It is written that inside every person God has implanted knowledge of Himself and so man with that knowledge has made God into his own image rather than the other way around. That hardly makes God dishonest at all.

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    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    The fossils aren't fakes, it is just man's understanding of them that is wrong. It is written that inside every person God has implanted knowledge of Himself and so man with that knowledge has made God into his own image rather than the other way around. That hardly makes God dishonest at all
    That's poetical but does not answer fact of radioactive dating. Nor that fact that if the OT is fact every mammal including humans for example should an obvious genetic bottle neck that would be observable. Like Cheetahs. Really worse since on your time the population collapse is more recent and more profound.
    Last edited by conon394; October 26, 2021 at 07:50 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  11. #91
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    That's poetical but does not answer fact of radioactive dating. Nor that fact that if the OT is fact every mammal including humans for example should an obvious genetic bottle neck that would be observable. Like Cheetah. Really worse since on time the population collapse is more recent and more profound.
    Considering we can genetically link human remains to existing populations over 10s of thousands of years, and beyond that to common ancestors with other species... I'm not sure there is actually a creationist rebuttal for the science in this situation... so I'm not surprised the answers become poetic at this point.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

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    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by antaeus View Post
    Considering we can genetically link human remains to existing populations over 10s of thousands of years, and beyond that to common ancestors with other species... I'm not sure there is actually a creationist rebuttal for the science in this situation... so I'm not surprised the answers become poetic at this point.
    Well yes I realize there is no win in this. The end of ferment or something is going to implied to have altered conditions such that the demonstrable observable facts are just what god wants. Thus while I hope basics got his shots he can casually reject the larger science that produced the mRNA one he likely got.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  13. #93
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    Well since God made creation as mature and up and running it is obvious that by its maturity most if not everything would appear to be older than it is. So no matter what dating system is applied it will be out of sync with reality. Concerning mRNA may I suggest having a wee look at James Tours work on YouTube as it is very interesting.

  14. #94
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by basics View Post
    Well since God made creation as mature and up and running it is obvious that by its maturity most if not everything would appear to be older than it is. So no matter what dating system is applied it will be out of sync with reality. Concerning mRNA may I suggest having a wee look at James Tours work on YouTube as it is very interesting.
    Err you sorta avoided my question. Tours is clearly a fine scientist in his area of expertise but like many such (most often men I might add) he is wondering of into areas were he is no expert. The is problem moreover the man himself admits he is simply fish to try create apparent problems or paradoxes and is not operating with an open mind.

    The point dodged is that for your flood story to work and dating by genealogy than again every mammal and humans would have profoundly homogeneous genomes vs what is observable in fact. The flood is very outside of gods week of work.
    Last edited by conon394; October 27, 2021 at 06:42 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  15. #95

    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    Tours is clearly a fine scientist in his area of expertise but like many such (most often men I might add) he is wondering of into areas were he is no expert.
    That is rather sexist of you.

  16. #96
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by Infidel144 View Post
    That is rather sexist of you.
    I don't think so I worked with a lot of mandarins of science over the years and invariably its the old guys who suddenly decide expertise in their field allows pontificate on any field. Rather the same vibe you can get MDs with lifetime of deference even if thay say could not do 200/300 level stats to save their souls.
    Last edited by conon394; October 28, 2021 at 08:16 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

  17. #97
    antaeus's Avatar Cool and normal
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    The point dodged is that for your flood story to work and dating by genealogy than again every mammal and humans would have profoundly homogeneous genomes vs what is observable in fact. The flood is very outside of gods week of work.
    I don't think they did dodge your question:

    "God made creation as mature and up and running"

    Things are the way they are because God.

    Gotcha!
    Last edited by antaeus; October 28, 2021 at 12:15 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB MARENOSTRUM

  18. #98

    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    Quote Originally Posted by conon394 View Post
    I don't think so I worked with a mandarins of science over the years and invariably its the old guys who suddenly decide expertise in their field allows pontificate on any field. Rather the same vibe you can get MDs with life time of deference even if thay say could not do 3000 level stats to save their souls.
    Women just know their place...

  19. #99
    basics's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    conon394,

    You still haven't grasped the story. God, for His good pleasure created this world so that He would be the Centre Piece in it. The core is that all creation would fall into enmity with Him and throughout time He would restore certain people so that this enmity would no longer exist. The ending of the story is that our space, time and matter will be extinguished and those saved out of it will join God in His existence to a life far better than what we have just now. Why even the ones who were not chosen will live on into perpetuity now knowing how wrong they were. Evolution is but a tool God uses to make His story more exciting for His opposition to believe which they do without any proof that it actually is real. What I have written is confirmed by the very coming of our God and Creator Jesus Christ into this world, paying the price of sin for certain people, rising from the grave and now waiting to come back to take out this creation, replacing it with a far better one. All the arguments in the world cannot change this.

  20. #100
    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: On the morality of evolution

    @antaeus

    Well that is sort of the of any discussion with somebody who takes the OT as actually god inspired fact. Really always has to end that way. Thus... from basics ^

    @basics "....All the arguments in the world cannot change this."

    Of course that same could stated by any true believer in other faith as well when confronted with facts
    Last edited by conon394; October 28, 2021 at 08:27 AM.
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB Dromikaites

    'One day when I fly with my hands - up down the sky, like a bird'

    But if the cause be not good, the king himself hath a heavy reckoning to make, when all those legs and arms and heads, chopped off in battle, shall join together at the latter day and cry all 'We died at such a place; some swearing, some crying for surgeon, some upon their wives left poor behind them, some upon the debts they owe, some upon their children rawly left.

    Hyperides of Athens: We know, replied he, that Antipater is good, but we (the Demos of Athens) have no need of a master at present, even a good one.

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